Kit Car Magazine is Crap?
Discussion
Ex-Biker said:
Kitcarman, Have you been to SOC website yet?
Do you think I’d be welcome at SOC? I got shy about registering!
SOC ?
Am I Fick?
Spartan Owners Club
Can't you read the posts without registering?
I thought you only had to register if you wanted to post a message
P.S. I think practical input would be appreciated.
just don't tell them where you got the link
Nearly murdered the postie this morning 
No magazine Went to local shop to get the milk for the office saw kit car mag nearly bought it, almost had to physically restrain myself Royal mail pah I bet the queen doesn't wait this long for her mag
I feel sorry for ex-biker in cornwall
peetbee you show me yours I'll show you mine
pile of bits that should be a car that is.
send me pics off board
I'm probably going to do the same as you do an article on rebuilding a spartan and as a bonus what to do about SVA for a triumph based herald under the guidance of KCM
>> Edited by spartan_andy on Tuesday 23 September 10:01
No magazine Went to local shop to get the milk for the office saw kit car mag nearly bought it, almost had to physically restrain myself Royal mail pah I bet the queen doesn't wait this long for her mag I feel sorry for ex-biker in cornwall peetbee you show me yours I'll show you mine
pile of bits that should be a car that is.
send me pics off board
I'm probably going to do the same as you do an article on rebuilding a spartan and as a bonus what to do about SVA for a triumph based herald under the guidance of KCM
>> Edited by spartan_andy on Tuesday 23 September 10:01
Some of you should have got your October Kit Car. Others should get theirs tomorrow. Some in far flung reaches of the galaxy like Oz, Argentina, USA and even Cornwall could have a fortnight to wait.
One of the purposes of my sending the magazine is such that you can tell me what's wrong
(and right
) with it, and how you'd like to see it develop and improve.
Which Kit? is bound to be used as a comparison especially as I entered this forum affronted at the suggestions that Kit Car (hence me) was 'unprofessional', 'childish' and 'pathetic', because of accusations (which to be fair to PetrolTed won't be repeated on this forum) concerning Which Kit?
A Mexican stand-off followed:-
Two things have since happened. Which Kit? has tidied its act by attending to certain criticisms and it's put real effort into it's latest issue. Full credit to them, they've produced the biggest and best edition I've seen - done it bally well, and it's a truly excellent production. That makes my job harder but I'm convinced that I can still show you that Kit Car’s best because the second thing that's happened is that you've learnt some of the background and I think you've found my opponents silence telling.
I suggest that any motoring magazine is a three-way cross between a Hynes type manual, an exchange and mart and a newspaper. Readers have differing requirements in respect to the mix, but I venture to say that the newspaper aspect is the most important, most of the time, for most people. My position is that Kit Car is far more accurate and balanced. Speaking in general terms, it seems to me that if a newspaper is found to contain falsity, fabrication or fiction then it’s as useless as a chocolate tea-pot. Why? Because when you find it's lied on one occasion, you simply don't know when it will lie again. Once the trust has gone, so has the reason for buying it. Well that’s IMHO.
Therefore, please don’t restrict your evaluation to mechanical composition, but judge on integrity too. Which Kit? in this month's edition lays claim to having "Full Integrity" so invites comparison on that basis as well. I’m not about to dig up old dung heaps but instead want to look at what's fresh!
Page 20 of the latest Which Kit? contains a letter from my old mate Ozzie Dave. It finishes:-
Funny I thought, because when Ozzie Dave posted on the thread that PetrolTed rightly deleted he said:-
I scanned a copy of Ozzie Dave’s letter in Which Kit? and sent it to him to see if he could explain the discrepancy in ‘his’ conflicting statements. This is his response (minus a few expletives and condensed and approved by him):-
I'm adding nothing save to ask Ozzie Dave to verify. . .OK Dave!
>> Edited by kitcarman on Tuesday 23 September 16:26
could have a fortnight to wait. One of the purposes of my sending the magazine is such that you can tell me what's wrong
(and right) with it, and how you'd like to see it develop and improve. Which Kit? is bound to be used as a comparison especially as I entered this forum affronted at the suggestions that Kit Car (hence me) was 'unprofessional', 'childish' and 'pathetic', because of accusations (which to be fair to PetrolTed won't be repeated on this forum) concerning Which Kit?
A Mexican stand-off followed:-
PistonHeads said:
...you're 'unprofessional', 'childish' and 'pathetic' and we're not buying Kit Car anymore...
Me said:
...Oh no I'm not!!!! you buch of..."%*"*ers
PetrolTed said:
...things got dicy for a moment..
Two things have since happened. Which Kit? has tidied its act by attending to certain criticisms and it's put real effort into it's latest issue. Full credit to them, they've produced the biggest and best edition I've seen - done it bally well, and it's a truly excellent production. That makes my job harder but I'm convinced that I can still show you that Kit Car’s best because the second thing that's happened is that you've learnt some of the background and I think you've found my opponents silence telling.
I suggest that any motoring magazine is a three-way cross between a Hynes type manual, an exchange and mart and a newspaper. Readers have differing requirements in respect to the mix, but I venture to say that the newspaper aspect is the most important, most of the time, for most people. My position is that Kit Car is far more accurate and balanced. Speaking in general terms, it seems to me that if a newspaper is found to contain falsity, fabrication or fiction then it’s as useless as a chocolate tea-pot. Why? Because when you find it's lied on one occasion, you simply don't know when it will lie again. Once the trust has gone, so has the reason for buying it. Well that’s IMHO.
Therefore, please don’t restrict your evaluation to mechanical composition, but judge on integrity too. Which Kit? in this month's edition lays claim to having "Full Integrity" so invites comparison on that basis as well. I’m not about to dig up old dung heaps but instead want to look at what's fresh!
Page 20 of the latest Which Kit? contains a letter from my old mate Ozzie Dave. It finishes:-
Ozzie_Dave said:
(rather according to Which Kit? he said)
Keep up the good work - yours is the only magazine I buy...
Funny I thought, because when Ozzie Dave posted on the thread that PetrolTed rightly deleted he said:-
Ozzie_Dave said:
I have read both mags for quite a while...
I scanned a copy of Ozzie Dave’s letter in Which Kit? and sent it to him to see if he could explain the discrepancy in ‘his’ conflicting statements. This is his response (minus a few expletives and condensed and approved by him):-
Ozzie_Dave said:
I've started to get paranoid, I must look for the other Dave Ingerson in Brisbane
The second letter on that page also seems to be promoting a car that they have a 'good relationship' with.
When all this started I was unsure of your motives. I thought you were being pathetic and said so, but I've learnt a lot through the PistonHeads forum and now see there's something VERY wrong with Which Kit?'s accuracy.
I'm adding nothing save to ask Ozzie Dave to verify. . .OK Dave!
>> Edited by kitcarman on Tuesday 23 September 16:26
I haven't recieved my copy yet but I did leave home well before the postie arrived this morning....
Have flown up to Glasgow today, and took my copy of WK to help pass the time in the departure lounge.
Without wishing to fan the flames TOO much.... if you read the letters page, a 6'7 chap writes asking advice on Cobra Replicas, and is advised to wait for the RV Dynamics replica... which is allegedly part of WK's portfolio.
I have no idea whether the RV replica IS better suited to a taller driver, or whether any of the other replicas are similarly suitable (and let's face it, there are plenty of fake snakes to choose from!) but with what has been alleged about WK's bias, it does seem a little odd doesn't it?
but I did leave home well before the postie arrived this morning.... Have flown up to Glasgow today, and took my copy of WK to help pass the time in the departure lounge.
Without wishing to fan the flames TOO much.... if you read the letters page, a 6'7 chap writes asking advice on Cobra Replicas, and is advised to wait for the RV Dynamics replica... which is allegedly part of WK's portfolio.
I have no idea whether the RV replica IS better suited to a taller driver, or whether any of the other replicas are similarly suitable (and let's face it, there are plenty of fake snakes to choose from!) but with what has been alleged about WK's bias, it does seem a little odd doesn't it?
kitcarman said:
Anybody know why quotes don't work properly?
Make sure the name is correct. It's probably Aussie_Dave
eg
Aussie_Dave to me said:
hello mate
meeja said:
Without wishing to fan the flames TOO much.... if you read the letters page, a 6'7 chap writes asking advice on Cobra Replicas, and is advised to wait for the RV Dynamics replica... which is allegedly part of WK's portfolio.
I spotted that one too.
I'd have told them to contact the company they are featuring on Cobra's (can't remeber the name) as the article says they are always willing to help and offer advice.
>> Edited by Ex-Biker on Tuesday 23 September 11:29
Ok SpartanAndy, will do. Sounds like you're having as much fun as me. Still, at least mine is already registered!
WK recommending the RV. To be fair all they have said is wait for the demonstrator to be available. The chap himself had already said he'd contacted other firms, yes Peter Filby has an interest but if WK hadn't answered the query then surely that would be something to criticise them for too? Perhaps they could have suggested something else but if so then I don't know not being a Cobra expert!
Look forward to receiving the mag soon
(Den, I am still trying to be neutral)
WK recommending the RV. To be fair all they have said is wait for the demonstrator to be available. The chap himself had already said he'd contacted other firms, yes Peter Filby has an interest but if WK hadn't answered the query then surely that would be something to criticise them for too? Perhaps they could have suggested something else but if so then I don't know not being a Cobra expert!
Look forward to receiving the mag soon
(Den, I am still trying to be neutral)
unfortunately Den is correct , the letter published was an edited version , i will stress that I read both magazines , But read Which Kit on a regular (Monthly basis ) kit car I read when i see something of interst (according to the boss thats most months) . I realy believe that Den , by blowing the whistle has done it for the reason of Tidying up the industry and not out of spite as originally thought by myself, and I am sure many others . This conclusion has been come to after talking to him repeatedly off the list . I could not reply as it takes months for the magazines to arrive here I would not have seen the letter for at least a couple of months after it was published .
Dave Ingerson, Brisbane
Dave Ingerson, Brisbane
PeetBee said:
He should declare the interest, but the advice in his reply seemed reasonable.
PeetBee, of course I realize that you’re playing devils advocate
and are consequently a valued moderating influence. Especially, as the devil 
(metaphorically speaking) has elected to keep his gob shut. As his advocate, you say the advice to wait till Python comes out seemed reasonable.
As his critic, I say that’s nonsense because:-
a) There’s no indication as to when it will be available
. This long in the body chap will be long in the tooth by the time it’s ready. “Python is back” was announced in Jan 02 yet to this day we’ve only seen prototype, un-built, untested chassis. b) Other promised products were never completed (like AF Sports) and customers say they’ve been left high’n’dry. Ads have now apparently ceased.
c) The promises made in advance haven’t been honoured IMHO. Look at AF Sports and Razer where perfection was/is offered. In the case of Python, the chassis is said to be “Superb…with fully triangulated backbone” (ad on p22 Oct issue) yet the photo in the previous issue shows (a rather naff IMHO) ladder frame with no ‘backbone’ at all.
d) I doubt that a BMW V8 will fit the width of a Cobra bonnet, yet apparently “it fits perfectly too”. My question is how can that be known
till one’s been built? e) To make matters worse still, Which Kit? has neither declared an interest (and I note that you concede that this should have been done
) nor explained what looks IMHO like an untenable position. f) Despite my criticisms, the advertising and brazen promotion continues unabated.
I propose the product be re-named “Monty Python”
because IMHO it really is a flying circus, , . One that’s not at all entertaining if you happen to be an honest producer of a Cobra and would like to sell one today, or if you’re a customer wanting to make an informed decision . Den.
BTW. I’ve got it! A neutralist
= A person who is neutral,,. 
Ozzie_Dave said:
Unfortunately Den is correct. . . . I read both magazines. . . I really believe that Den, by blowing the whistle has done it for the reason of Tidying up the industry and not out of spite. . .
Dave Ingerson, Brisbane
Thanks Dave
, and if I may say, I’m really looking forward to the time when ‘blowing the whistle’ isn’t necessary anymore. I’m also gratified that my most ardent critic, and Mr Filby’s strongest supporter, on this forum has ‘seen the light’. This whole episode has been a blight on my life. My first exposé appeared in May and clearly wasn’t understood, so I increased the volume and range. This brought PistonHeads vilification. However, my position is that all I’ve done is to report what’s, IMHO, the truth and Dave’s right about my motivation.
As Dave indicated, I’m more than willing to go into details and history off forum. Out of fairness to PetrolTed, that’s clearly the right and proper place. BTW, thanks PetrolTed for giving me opportunity for a fair hearing. I know I’m a pain in the arse and my points are deep, troublesome and numerous, but that IMHO is the nature of the report, not the reporter.
With the air clearer, it’s my hope that we can quickly dispose of the allegation that I’ve been pathetic, childish and unprofessional and go on to discuss the more important issue as to how Kit Car can better serve and promote the industry whose name it bears. Am I on-message?
Den.
BTW. The October issue WAS POSTED MONDAY. Sorry it’s late! If you haven’t got it tomorrow I’m going to
postman Pat, or at the least stick pins in the plastic effigy my daughter has of him. KITCARMAN
I thought your major gripe was that Peter printed unfair and inacurate writings about the Pilgrim.... isn't this just more of the same?
What I would like to see most is factual unbiased reports and comments from both magazines.... what the hell are we going to do if we can't get this from either?
I thought your major gripe was that Peter printed unfair and inacurate writings about the Pilgrim.... isn't this just more of the same?
What I would like to see most is factual unbiased reports and comments from both magazines.... what the hell are we going to do if we can't get this from either?
andycanam said:
KITCARMAN
I thought your major gripe was that Peter printed unfair and inaccurate writings about the Pilgrim....
What gave you that impression?
andycanam said:
.... isn't this just more of the same?
I really don’t think so!
andycanam said:
What I would like to see most is factual unbiased reports and comments from both magazines....
So what do you think I want?
andycanam said:
…what the hell are we going to do if we can't get this from either?
There’s a clear suggestion that you accuse both magazines of bias. Would you care to be specific as to where and about what?
Been ill
for a couple of days so not been in. Haven't you all been busy.
Accosted postie this morning and got my copy of KCM
not had a chance to read it however nearly crashed the car trying to read over the managements shoulder( like meeja for management read wife) however mine is quite in to the idea of a kit car if not the practice. I think she sees herself flying around in the spartan if we ever get it on the road. Has anyone got a triumph Herald spartan they can give me measurements off as the butcher that had this car before me has chopped bits off and I don't know haow big they need to be.
for a couple of days so not been in. Haven't you all been busy. Accosted postie this morning and got my copy of KCM
not had a chance to read it however nearly crashed the car trying to read over the managements shoulder( like meeja for management read wife) however mine is quite in to the idea of a kit car if not the practice. I think she sees herself flying around in the spartan if we ever get it on the road. Has anyone got a triumph Herald spartan they can give me measurements off as the butcher that had this car before me has chopped bits off and I don't know haow big they need to be.Gassing Station | Kit Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff