Discussion
mcBontempi said:
crossflow gets expensive and untractable above about 110bhp
That's a fairly pessimistic assessment.Crossflows are pretty tractable up to about 135 bhp, even for moderately heavy cars like Escort Mk. 1's.
For very light cars (ie. well-designed Seven types of 550kg or less), they're ok up to about 155 bhp, but you've got to live with an 1,100 rpm idle and the power curve of a Daewoo Matix below about 3,500rpm unless you go for mapped ignition and fuel injection.
They are getting a bit expensive to tune, these days, compared to something like a Zetec that will give similar power straight from the scrapyard, but then the Zetec needs converting to RWD, so you've got to budget for some fairly expensive components in addition to the basic engine, even then, for straightforward installation in a Seven.
When I was at Uni, a "boy racer" friend of mine had an E reg Escort cabriolet. He spent quite a lot on the engine and I believe it was a CVH top end on a Zetec bottom end. The capacity was increased to 2.1 (IIRC) and it ran webber 45s with Kent fast road cams.
I dont know what the advantages were to having a half-n-half engine but it certainally went very well.
I dont know what the advantages were to having a half-n-half engine but it certainally went very well.
Sam_68 said:
mcBontempi said:
crossflow gets expensive and untractable above about 110bhp
That's a fairly pessimistic assessment.Crossflows are pretty tractable up to about 135 bhp, even for moderately heavy cars like Escort Mk. 1's.
For very light cars (ie. well-designed Seven types of 550kg or less), they're ok up to about 155 bhp, but you've got to live with an 1,100 rpm idle and the power curve of a Daewoo Matix below about 3,500rpm unless you go for mapped ignition and fuel injection.
They are getting a bit expensive to tune, these days, compared to something like a Zetec that will give similar power straight from the scrapyard, but then the Zetec needs converting to RWD, so you've got to budget for some fairly expensive components in addition to the basic engine, even then, for straightforward installation in a Seven.
id go for a zetec install, or a car with one every time. or duratec if the funds are there.
...or a blackbird/r1/busa just for track.
engine installs in 7s are pretty cheap and easy to do, custom exhaust/manifold aside.
If I buy another kit car I would probably get one with the most modern engine I could afford. As Duratec powered cars are quite expensive I would get Zetec. I wouldn’t be too concerned with power as that could be played with at a later date. Bike engines seem like a popular choice for track cars so I would stick with car engines as they will be more useable for the road. I don’t think it will matter what type of car you get as you will love it, just get one that has got a good owners club for support.
mcBontempi][Crossflows said:
are decent engines, but just not worth the bother nowdays for a fresh install.
id go for a zetec install, or a car with one every time. or duratec if the funds are there.
I agree... no way would I even consider building a car with a Crossflow, these days.id go for a zetec install, or a car with one every time. or duratec if the funds are there.
But if I understand correctly, the OP is talking about buying a car fully built, with a budget of about £4k.
That rules out the Hyabusa/R1 options straight away, and probably narrows the Zetec engined choices down to sheds.
If I had the choice of a decent chassis with a Crossflow engine, or a Robin Hood/Locost with a Zetec engine, I'd go for the Crossflow every time...
my original suggestion was to get a luego with a small engine in it(usually crossflow)
and maybe to do a bike engine conversion on it.
benifits are 2 fold, a proven crossflow to use for a bit, if thats ok, then leave it, then maybe do a bike engine conversion on it, when time allows, i outlined the costs too.
im sure you can find a decent 1.3 luego or locost for 3k ish with an mot.
i built my locost myself, i can assure you its cheaper to by a ready built one, then maybe convert to bike power later.
ive been there so i do know what im talking about.
im not saying you dont, but maybe we just agree?
and maybe to do a bike engine conversion on it.
benifits are 2 fold, a proven crossflow to use for a bit, if thats ok, then leave it, then maybe do a bike engine conversion on it, when time allows, i outlined the costs too.
im sure you can find a decent 1.3 luego or locost for 3k ish with an mot.
i built my locost myself, i can assure you its cheaper to by a ready built one, then maybe convert to bike power later.
ive been there so i do know what im talking about.
im not saying you dont, but maybe we just agree?
[quote=Sam_68I agree... no way would I even consider building a car with a Crossflow, these days.
But if I understand correctly, the OP is talking about buying a car fully built, with a budget of about £4k.
That rules out the Hyabusa/R1 options straight away, and probably narrows the Zetec engined choices down to sheds.
If I had the choice of a decent chassis with a Crossflow engine, or a Robin Hood/Locost with a Zetec engine, I'd go for the Crossflow every time...
[/quote]
Yeah, you understand excatly my thoughts.
- And without masses of experience, the only zetec/zeta engined car (2005 mk indy) was indeed not very tidy at all.
Ive interested my the BEC concept, but very happy with the performance of the CECs to be honest. And although i very much planning a trackday or two, most of the time will be on the road. And having bought it i will be fully intending to make as much use of it as a i can.
Im sort of aware that if i wait to months it will be the end of the season and there might be more choice, But the more i think about it and turn it over in my head the more im happy with the car, and if i get it now ive got two months of a season. Or atlease hopfully a few drier days, so i can get out in it a bit and get used to it before winter, during with i can tinker on the odd bits i want to change.
Or somthing like that!
Daniel
But if I understand correctly, the OP is talking about buying a car fully built, with a budget of about £4k.
That rules out the Hyabusa/R1 options straight away, and probably narrows the Zetec engined choices down to sheds.
If I had the choice of a decent chassis with a Crossflow engine, or a Robin Hood/Locost with a Zetec engine, I'd go for the Crossflow every time...
[/quote]
Yeah, you understand excatly my thoughts.
- And without masses of experience, the only zetec/zeta engined car (2005 mk indy) was indeed not very tidy at all.
Ive interested my the BEC concept, but very happy with the performance of the CECs to be honest. And although i very much planning a trackday or two, most of the time will be on the road. And having bought it i will be fully intending to make as much use of it as a i can.
Im sort of aware that if i wait to months it will be the end of the season and there might be more choice, But the more i think about it and turn it over in my head the more im happy with the car, and if i get it now ive got two months of a season. Or atlease hopfully a few drier days, so i can get out in it a bit and get used to it before winter, during with i can tinker on the odd bits i want to change.
Or somthing like that!
Daniel
mcBontempi said:
my original suggestion was to get a luego with a small engine in it(usually crossflow)
and maybe to do a bike engine conversion on it.
benifits are 2 fold, a proven crossflow to use for a bit, if thats ok, then leave it, then maybe do a bike engine conversion on it, when time allows, i outlined the costs too.
im sure you can find a decent 1.3 luego or locost for 3k ish with an mot.
i built my locost myself, i can assure you its cheaper to by a ready built one, then maybe convert to bike power later.
ive been there so i do know what im talking about.
im not saying you dont, but maybe we just agree?
Yeah, I agree with you totally - as I said, if it were me I'd buy the best chassis I could afford, even if it's fitted with a low spec. Crossflow, and maybe think about upgrading to a better engine later.and maybe to do a bike engine conversion on it.
benifits are 2 fold, a proven crossflow to use for a bit, if thats ok, then leave it, then maybe do a bike engine conversion on it, when time allows, i outlined the costs too.
im sure you can find a decent 1.3 luego or locost for 3k ish with an mot.
i built my locost myself, i can assure you its cheaper to by a ready built one, then maybe convert to bike power later.
ive been there so i do know what im talking about.
im not saying you dont, but maybe we just agree?
It's not so easy to upgrade to a better chassis!
Edited by Sam_68 on Friday 29th August 17:10
Darren156 said:
I'm hopefully viewing an old 1971 Volvo P1800 E this weekend but if I don't get that I'm hoping to get a Tiger or something similar.
Darren
A friend of mine had one of those, nice to look at {f you're old enough to remember 'The Saint') but a load os rubbish to drive as suggested.Darren
Get a '7' type replica or similar, much more fun.
For anyone else currently looking at 7 type kits, get acopy of "Kit Car" magazine. I picked it up in Smith's yesterday and the whole issue is dedicated to 7 type kits with info on all those available.
They clearly know who their advertisers are though - not much in the way of negative comments on any of the cars.
Its £5.99 for a magazine but its nearly twice as thick as EVO with half the ads.
They clearly know who their advertisers are though - not much in the way of negative comments on any of the cars.
Its £5.99 for a magazine but its nearly twice as thick as EVO with half the ads.
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