Feedback from Kit Car Magazine

[meeja]

Ex-Biker said:

1. Kit Car is justified in what it prints

Without hearing both sides of the story, it is impossible to give an answer.... but I do feel that Mr Filby's silence speaks volumes.

Ex-Biker said:

2. I've had enough of the bull and want them to get back to what they do best, writing about cars

Like I said.... I cannot comment on whether it is bull or not, but I do feel that the WK attack pages have gone on long enough (three or four issues now?) KCM should now feel that he has got it off his chest, and maybe time to let people make up their own mind.

Ex-Biker said:

3. I enjoy the constant bitchin'

It is actually quite amusing, but feel that (in print) it has gone on long enough.... time to put that 3% to positive use.

Ex-Biker said:

4. Reading the bits in Kit Car has caused me to buy Which Kit more often.

I buy it anyway, but if I didn't, I probably would have (or at least abuse WH Smith on a Saturday morning) just to see if there was any response!

Ex-Biker said:

5. I don't care, can't read anyway.

Damn... I told them to keep that quiet!

[spartan_andy]

Ditto Meeja. Having recieved mag on thursday gave it a severe hammering thursday evening the management was watching eastenders etc still got loads more to read
Think the balance of parts is about right it can be a useful directroy for people needing bits a source of info from articles plus a smattering of dry pithy wit from mr tanner.

Seriously an excellent mag just enough of the wk ads etc like someone else said snyde cartoons occasionally fair enough. Its one mag you can dip into time and again and find something you have have missed or need to reread to gain the full details.

PS Happy birthday to you
Happy birthday to you
Happy birthday Kit Car Maaaaaan
Happy birthday to you.

Can guess what your wish will be when you blow out the candles. How many will there be? Will they all fit on the cake.

I'll have a drink for you tonite

As uncle in the jackie chan adventure cartoons would say "One more thing" if you stop the wk ads I would probably subscribe.
>> Edited by spartan_andy on Friday 26th September 16:28

>> Edited by spartan_andy on Friday 26th September 16:40

[kitcarman]

Ex-Biker said:

You slate AF Sports (Unique Autocraft) on p105 and advertise AF Sports (Auto-Forge Mo Co Ltd) on p140

Guy Humpage said:

Although I notice that the mobile telephone number is the same for both companies.

meeja said:

Well spotted! I really would not have noticed that!

Ex-Biker said:

What do you think Kitcarman?

Very simply answered.
Dave Pepper, whilst working in partnership with Mr Filby produced a vehicle that Dave was unable to complete properly due, according to Dave, to financial shortages (and remember that Mr Filby was Mr Financier).

That led to argument which caused Dave and Peter to split. According to Dave, Peter declared the intention to keep the product of Dave’s work and continued to advertise the AF Sports.

With Dave’s agreement I publicized a very small part of what Dave told me and added what is plain for all to see. In the meantime, according to Dave, legal proceedings were put in motion to prevent Peter selling Dave’s product and to force Peter to hand over to Dave certain of its moulds and jigs such that Dave can continue in his profession.

Dave tells me that Peter has since delivered the said items and has stopped advertising it. So that’s the last time I’ll be publishing the ¼ page we’re discussing. Job Done.

The mobile number is the same because it’s Dave’s mobile.

AF Sports is now back in Dave's hands and is advertised accordingly.

I couldn't publish too much on the subject whilst legal proceedings looked likely.

Simple!
Den.
PS. Dave's one of the good guys. He has no problem with me and you've got his number if there's any doubt.

>> Edited by kitcarman on Friday 26th September 17:13

[Ex-Biker]

Thanks for that. Explains it nicely.

[kitcarman]

PistonHeads,
I’m very keen to deal with every one of your points. So I’ve scanned all those made on page 1 and notice that there are a couple that I’ve not addressed. If I’ve missed anything then please draw my attention to it.

Ex-Biker said:

Most embarrassing is that I saw last month’s where the ads were the same. . . The 'Bitmapped' adverts should have been withdrawn. . . I can see that people can advertise their private ads for more than 1 month, but why don't you at least change the position of these ads. Why do you put them in twice?

chris n said:

If it has achieved it, then get over the whole Which Kit? thing and move on. I'm sure you have a very positive contribution to make but at the moment you're in danger of making a bit of a tit of yourself (IMHO ).

meeja said:

I cannot comment on whether it is bull or not, but I do feel that the WK attack pages have gone on long enough (three or four issues now?) KCM should now feel that he has got it off his chest, and maybe time to let people make up their own mind. . . . it has gone on long enough.... time to put that 3% to positive use.

Spartan Andy said:

. . . if you stop the wk ads I would probably subscribe.

Below is my quote from an earlier post that was intended to deal with these issues of repetition.

Kitcarman said:

See how the rear end of the magazine is made up of dated sections (date code at bottom of most R/H pages). Each of these sections is printed 4 issues worth at the start and are replaced on a rotating basis. It saves a fortune, but whatever’s in it is fixed for 4 issues.

Let me please elaborate on this by way of answer to all the above questions.

When we say “Advertisement runs for 3 months for the same price” we mean exactly that. It goes into the new section that month which is printed in sufficient quantity for the following 3 issues. So, in fact it goes in for 4 months. It means that we can’t change or withdraw anything.

This gives rise to all the problems to which you refer.
The bitmapped ads that got printed (because we didn’t notice when proofing on screen) in the July issue are still in the October issue (embarrassing - agreed).
If any adverts are subject to copy change (usually reduced price), they stay in their old form whilst the revised advert appears in the new section. That gives rise to a number of nearly identical ads appearing.
The yellow Peter bashing adverts first appeared in August issue and I’m stuck with them until the November issue. I’m sorry, but to be honest not very sorry! I find them humorous as do some of you. In any event, I don’t hear you complaining that other ads are the same month on month (sometimes for years) and that seems inconsistent.

spartan_andy said:

PS Happy birthday to you Happy birthday to you Happy birthday Kit Car Maaaaaan Happy birthday to you. Can guess what your wish will be when you blow out the candles. How many will there be? I'll have a drink for you tonite

BTW Thanks for treating me gently on my 46th.
Den

[Ex-Biker]

No bitchin' from me in this post kitcarman.

Liked the insert that came with my freebie magazine. Thought the logos on the back could have been stickers at first. Would have been nice for kids, garage wall, to take to Mr Filby's next event to stick somewhere, etc, but what the hell.

I am very interested to see Colin Gilbert's wooden car featured.

Saw it at Donnington, most unusual, but inovative and smart also. I imagine it will always draw a crowd.

Am looking forward to a proper read about AVO suspension, RAW engines (I've got a Toyota you know) and the feature on the Nurburgring. Always fancied a trip there.

Southern Germany is an excellent place to go and a quick nip around a track whilst there would just improve it tenfold. Roads near the track are ace and autobahns are unrestricted in many areas. So when you organising a readers trip then?
Oh and did I mention the beer?

[Ex-Biker]

Thinking about Nurburgring, why not do an annual trip there? What a feature!

In addition you could do an annual party (bands, beer, music, camping, track time etc) at a track (in the UK). Include an auction or something and let people sell their bits, sort of an auto jumble.

[dontlift]

The wooden car excellent,

The AVO dampers article superb.

In fact "A right riveting read from cover to cover" especially the replica lambo

Now an ultimatum:

I will go out and purchase your magazine in 2 months time (as I am guessing next issue is already on the press) but i will look through it first and if there is one single snipe at your competitors I will leave it on the shelf.

From the front to the back the constant stabbing away is at first funny (especially if you know the history) but after first few just plain boring repetitive dross.... that i will not pay good money for - the only one I would agree with is page 132 an exellent comparison saying my main copetitions mag is only this long, but stick the rest in the bin chap.

However like I say excellent, there were a coule of typos and I would like to see more about actual building than just finished (moore on correct use of a torque wrench / mig welder / gas axe (you could demo on a gatso) etc etc etc)

Anyway you have a convert so well done. I will back on you in 2 issues

[Ozzie Dave]

come on Den, lets have a continuation of the Dave Pepper story , (ok it'll have to miss out the jucey Legal bits) but that was one of the first things I used to read as it was so entertaining .(though we wont discuss his choice of programmes ,music and wheels !)
I dont suppose we will see it continued in Which Kit .

[Ex-Biker]

Den

Redaing 'Hynesight' made me want to go straight to the Torero article. I resisted and continued.

Loved the little remarks on p10 'We're Racing Ahead'. Definately a more professional way of getting a point over.

You give us a hint of how much the Torero costs but it would be nice to get more of a break down. Car is gorgeous, but was overshadowed at Donnington by the orange one (mentioned in article). Best description of orange one - In yer face.

[Kevp]

Excellent. Better than I thought.

I don’t by Kit mags often. Only when building (for reference) or if an article jumps off the shelf. Hence no loyalty. So to maintain interest why not follow the ERA series and other Kit competition/events?


Why is “Which Kit” engraved in my head ?

[kitcarman]

Kevp said:

Excellent. Better than I thought.

Thanks for your vote of confidence and those of others who posted beforehand. Clearly, I thought you’d be happy otherwise I’d not have offered freebies.

My initial post expressed my concern that Kit Car had a reputation that belied the standard to which I believe it has risen . I was particularly concerned that many PistonHeads regarded Which Kit? as being superior.

The comments on this forum are reflected and summarized :-

chris n said:

…..you're in danger of making a bit of a tit of yourself (IMHO)

However right that might be, I believe it would be a real pity if ignorance had prevailed and Which Kit? was boosted by my attempts at exposing what I think it’s been doing whilst appearing whiter than white by invoking its right to remain silent.

I’ve said often enough that I went overboard and to that extent I have made a tit of myself. However, I believe that I’m simply a man of integrity who got angry and, unfortunately it’s seen by all my customers. The question is whether my anger is justified and of course whether my words are truthful. If the answer to both is yes then I think I can be forgiven. Indeed I believe I have been. Only those who engaged critically in the early threads can truly answer that. But I digress.

Kevp said:

Why is “Which Kit” engraved in my head ?

You’ve probably been ‘branded’.

What do you think of when you hear “Skoda” or “Rolls Royce”. I bet it’s what those companies used to be. In the case of Skoda you’ll think of a rear engined saddo’s mobile. In the case of Rolls, you won’t be thinking of a re-bodied set of BMW bits – I bet. If so, you’ve been ‘branded’ with what it used to be and not by what it is.

Which Kit? was for several years the better magazine and that sticks. My campaign, in part, is designed to re-brand that product to more accurately reflect my opinion of it’s current position.

My hope is that you’ll absorb my opinions (that’s what publishers do BTW). I have expressed a view that Which Kit? is not actually “Best” as it would have you believe but “Bent” (if only to the extent that it twists its readers letters, like Ozzie Dave’s). I hope that when you see Which Kit? you’ll think “yellow” and associate that with the fact that he wouldn’t join the fray. When you see Mr Filby, or read his words, my hope is that you’ll recall the sad pictures and in particular the one I photoshopped for your pleasure and education. If I’ve successfully ‘re-branded’ Which Kit? and its editor in a 6 month campaign that cost next to nothing, then I reckon I’ve done a good job.

Next job is to ‘re-brand’ the Kit Car industry! For that I’ll need longer than 6 months and I’ll need help, respect and loyalty which I don’t expect to be given, but to have earned.

Kevp said:

. . .why not follow the ERA series and other Kit competition/events?

Good suggestion!
There’s a lot of similar good suggestions already in the pot.
May I please suggest that I don’t deal with each posted suggestion, but rather give it a few days and deal with all of them on a batch basis.
I believe that you can and will help me in the re-branding exercise.

Thanks

Den

[joospeed]

Hi all.
I got my freebie copy the other day, just when I thought you'd forgotten about me there it was ..

I see the points about the jibes, poor advert quality and mentioning your competitor too many times have been done, but I'll stick my hand up and say "less of that please" to add to the chorus. But onto other points:
firstly congratulations on a great publication, no really, the kit car industry is worlds apart from where it stodd just 15 years ago, and alot of that has to do not just with the kit manufacturers themselves but also the community surrounding it, suppliers / fabricators and the media. Kit Car magazine seems to be heading the way for quality reporting for a quality component car arena.
Ona persoanl note I very much enjoy reading technical articles, and I have to thank you for the AVO article this month , some information in there actually helped me explain to a customer about the springs he had .. and allowed me to explain that some information he had heard from a well respected racing driver was in fact untrue! So thanks for that
I was pleasantly surprised by the size of the magazine, even though some pages appear to be duplicated it's still a formidable read... and it's not just adverts either. On the adverts front : I don't think that a large advertising percentage is a bad thing anyway in Kit Car, adverts are a great source of ideas and can often save you time and money by realising someone just down the road has just the part you require, adverts for technical parts are almost like technical articles in their own right in that respect.
I like the blend you have, and the Fury group test was written with nice humour, have you actually weighed Jodie Kidd's bra by the way???
Short summary : really very exciting to see the developments since I was involved with kt cars a decade ago, keep the techie stuff coming - in fact more in-depth technical reports would be great. Don't lose any of the advertising incl classifieds, they are as interesting as the rest of the mag. The Torero is stunning, how great to see a component car pushing the technical level of mainstream cars, it's going to be a great ambassdor for the component car industry.
Keep up the good work and I'll buy this again.

[kitcarman]

Ozzie Dave said:

come on Den, lets have a continuation of the Dave Pepper story... I don’t suppose we will see it continued in Which Kit?

I’ve got a real load of tasty morsels to serve on this subject, but I don’t want to get this thread crossed. I certainly don’t want it locked or deleted either.

Financial incompetence, engineering failure, recriminations, lies, fraud, police, theft, alcohol overdose and physical assault (DavePeter) followed by impounded property, legal shenanigans and disappointed customers. Just some of the ingredients for this story.

Would be funny if it wasn’t so true .

If you want the gore (minus the contentious bits for PetrolTed’s benefit) then post a new thread.

Can’t publish it either, because if I do dontlift won’t buy my magazine. Bummer – isn’t it?

Den.


>> Edited by kitcarman on Saturday 27th September 14:15

[Justin s]

Ah,but nothing beats a personal mail for people wanting the gossip.My hand is in the air for that one!!!!! Anyone else??

[Ferg]

I'm glad to be able to call Dave Pep a mate and for ANYONE to take him for a ride is just dispicable. He told me the full story in a phone call soon after the police incident and I stood open mouthed....

[kitcarman]

I spoke to Dave myself yesterday on the 'phone. He's now doing alright and tells me that he's sold a few kits. He hasn't got a computer at the moment, but intends to join this forum in a couple of weeks as soon as he gets on-line again.

The Dave Pepper stuff is real sad!
Almost unbelievable...
However it’s off thread. A new thread has been opened to deal with it.

Let’s get this debate back on track. Remember you were venting your spleens telling me how unprofessional I am but how good my magazine is. I’m on tender-hooks to see how these ends are joined together. So more comment please.

Den

[Ex-Biker]

Still working my way through the mag. (Either a slow or a thorough reader?)

The Article on Raw Engineering was good, but spoiled a little by the editing. Some of the paragraphs ending mid sentence and continuing in the next one were a little offputting.

Didn't like the 'Why do twice as many people read Kit Car?' article as it was a repeat of last month. With this and the Club listings it meant 18 pages between Raw and 'Three Amigos'. Now I agree with what was said earlier regarding adverts being a valuable source of info etc but p34 - p52 seems at lot in one go.

I will say I read 'the other mag' before getting yours. Dare I say I was getting bored reading some the articles in that mag. It hasn't happened yet in Kit Car.

Was amused by the snippet on the Porsche at Harrogate. If you remember the Donnington thing I sent you, you'll know why.

I think all of the little gripes people have on your mag have been stated and mostly addressed now. The overall concensous seems to be that you have a very good mag, well written and informative in both article and advertising content.

Keep up the good work and here's hoping it gets even better!

[PeetBee]

Hi, sorry I've been quiet for a while, I've been busy reading!

I'll email you my full thoughts in a moment, but I would agree with many of the points raised here about the advertising. I had noticed that some of the kitcars for sale (I lost count when I got into double figures) are the same cars repeated (some of them 3 or 4 times), as are the trade ads. I heard your explanation about why those pages are produced like that but coming just after your 'end is neigh' page it then appears as though, 'My mag is biggger, but only cos I pad it out'. Could you not group the trade ads together in one section and car sales in another to make your preferred method of publishing work better for the reader?

I like the new tech articles last couple of months on the Pinto and this month's on Brakes, but have to admit that despite my car having a Pinto (and fitted with brakes!) it was the last article I read as the grey background and use of black and white photos made it as appealing as a Haynes manual! Not a fair comparison I know as it was well written but first apperances count.

I love the layout of the books, club list & back issue pages (see not all bad news!) but would have to echo someone elses comments, do you employ a proof reader, I noticed a few captions on the wrong photos (or vice versa, details in email). Also liked the little articles on louvre production and bonnet warning light.

All in all a very enjoyable read though! Thanks for the copy

[kits-r-us]

Hello everyone! I'm new to this forum but not so new to what you're all talking about. I won't give you any more clues as to who I am but let's just say I spoke to Dave Pepper yesterday and it seems to me that he's yet another decent human to be on the wrong side of Mr Filby.

Judging by the way you all talk about this rather over-egged issue there seems to be one thing that you are all missing. We all know someone who is selling kits that don't exist and is pulling the wool over good people's eyes left, right and centre and what does anyone do about it? Nothing (except kitcarman, of course). It is down right out of order and it had to be exposed sooner or later. What goes around, comes around.