Dave Pepper and "Which Kit"
Discussion
Ex-Biker said:
Not knowing the full story...I think the article (slur) could have been written in a more professional manner.
Do me a favour.
Try re-writing
these two pages, making the same points! I spent a very long time to ensure they were 100% accurate (I’ve no doubt that I’d have been sued if they weren’t).
Ex-Biker said:
How many of your readers who do not read this forum could make that mistake?
Which mistake?
I mean the mistake of reaching the wrong conclusion about what's actually being said OR the mistake of concluding that what's being said is unprofessional OR the possible mistake of failing to differentiate between the two OR the the mistake of saying that what's being communicated IS professional BUT the way it's communicated isn't?
As said. Which mistake? However, the question's rhetorical anyway, so don't bother wasting time with an answer.
I think it's clear to all that nomatter how I'd tackled this problem, somebody was bound to misunderstand what I was doing!
What's important to me is that you realize that my heart's in the right place so far as my readers and the industry are concerned
. Den.
>> Edited by kitcarman on Sunday 28th September 23:42
My point was that although you do may be accurate in what you say about AF Sports in your article on p105, but as someone who doesn't know any of the politics (ie. what's going on at AF), you do not clarify anywhere that Mr Filby no longer has any association with AF Sports.
With regard to the way the article is written I will re-read it tonight. From memory it may be that with all the digs at Which Kit throughout the mag that I took it as just another snipe at him.
Maybe it's just as Tombs said:
I'm not used to seeing this stuff in other magazines.
>> Edited by Ex-Biker on Monday 29th September 09:21
With regard to the way the article is written I will re-read it tonight. From memory it may be that with all the digs at Which Kit throughout the mag that I took it as just another snipe at him.
Maybe it's just as Tombs said:
tombs said:
I know a lot of the postings by you guys have been to try and find out the truth, and to also ask and question the ethics in how we publish our magazine, and your right! You wouldn’t normally see this in any other type of Motoring magazine which is why it may seem unprofessional... but there is a reason for these things to be said,
I'm not used to seeing this stuff in other magazines.
>> Edited by Ex-Biker on Monday 29th September 09:21
Ex-Biker said:
I'm not used to seeing this stuff in other magazines.
Never a truer word. . . .
How many motoring magazines do you know that are published by an editor who has an undeclared interest in the products whose articles and adverts he writes?
How many motoring magazines do you know that are published by a used car salesman who takes advantage of the classified advertisements at the back of his magazine on a brazen commercial scale?
How many technical motoring magazines are edited by an editor who hates things mechanical to the point of getting shitty at the thought of getting dirty?
How many magazines (of any type) do you know where you can’t trust that even the readers letters accurately reflect the readers true opinion?
How many editors do you know (who are still employed) that have admitted to publishing the very opposite result of a court case?
I could ask more hypothetical questions…..
My question is this. If it hypothetically fell upon a “clean” publisher to expose the kind of hypothetical practices mentioned above. Hypothetically speaking, would so doing render that “clean” publisher “unprofessional”.
My second hypothetical question concerns how such a “clean” publisher could, hypothetically speaking, expose practices of the kind illustrated without making full-on allegations?
My third hypothetical question concerns the duty of the hypothetically "clean" publisher. Would he be expected, hypothetically speaking, to blow the whistle?
Repeat. All allegations are hypothetical. All questions rhetorical.
Den
>> Edited by kitcarman on Monday 29th September 11:17
>> Edited by kitcarman on Monday 29th September 11:21
kitcarman said:
How many motoring magazines do you know that are published by an editor who has an undeclared interest in the products whose articles and adverts he writes?
Caravan World? I mean who is interested in caravans anyway?
kitcarman said:
How many motoring magazines do you know that are published by a used car salesman who takes advantage of the classified advertisements at the back of his magazine on a brazen commercial scale?
Autotrader?
kitcarman said:
How many technical motoring magazines are edited by an editor who hates things mechanical to the point of getting shitty at the thought of getting dirty?
Performance Bikes? They just ride bikes fast!
kitcarman said:
How many magazines (of any type) do you know where you can’t trust that even the readers letters accurately reflect the readers true opinion?
Motorcycle News? It's a comic!
kitcarman said:
How many editors do you know (who are still employed) that have admitted to publishing the very opposite result of a court case?
Now you've got me on this one . . . Which Kit?
kitcarman said:
My question is this. If it hypothetically fell upon a “clean” publisher to expose the kind of hypothetical practices mentioned above. Hypothetically speaking, would so doing render that “clean” publisher “unprofessional”.
Jury is still out on this one. It's not what you say, but how you say it. (I don't actually think you've done wrong)
kitcarman said:
My second hypothetical question concerns how such a “clean” publisher could, hypothetically speaking, expose practices of the kind illustrated without making full-on allegations?
'An undisclosed source has uncovered that the T**t from the other mag is . . . . we are following up further info and will give you the full story next month', or something?
kitcarman said:
My third hypothetical question concerns the duty of the hypothetically "clean" publisher. Would he be expected, hypothetically speaking, to blow the whistle?
Up to him.
Den, I'm on your side. I do like to debate things sometimes though. As I said before:
"I'm not used to seeing this sort of thing in other magazines."
Disclaimer: The above references to various publications are not intended to be a serious reflection of said publications and should be taken in the humour intended.
>> Edited by Ex-Biker on Monday 29th September 12:45
Just want to say I agree with ex-biker regards the issue of "its not what you say but how you say it"
I whole heartedly agree something must be done when shady, underhanded, or downright unscrupulous pratices are uncovered, unfortunately I can't think of another way of doing it.
Having read the posts on this site and others regarding this situation and want to say "IT CANNOT CONTINUE" I talk not about Mr. tanner and his ads and posts but Mr. Filby's actions. Also how can a man who doesn't like getting grease and grime under his fingernails talk about an industry that IMHO is all about doing exactly that. Half the fun of kitcars I feel is the building, and I am a very recent convert. I remember the fun I had as a youth stripping and rebuilding Minis. doing the Spartan I am rediscovering the joy of skinned knuckles bruised thumbs and the smell of swarfega.
Den, I want to thank you for all the help you have given me over my issues (different thread) and apologise if I have been heavy handed in my dealings over the above mentioned issue. I have recently got seriously infected with the Kit Car Bug, a complaint for which I beleive there is no cure and I understand you yourself have been suffering from for several years from what you have said. All i can say is that if I suffer from the problem half as badly as you have then I shall get some real enjoyment from the industry.
PS I am already planning my next car and I haven't even rebuilt the Spartan yet
edited for english
>> Edited by spartan_andy on Monday 29th September 13:33
>> Edited by spartan_andy on Monday 29th September 13:48
I whole heartedly agree something must be done when shady, underhanded, or downright unscrupulous pratices are uncovered, unfortunately I can't think of another way of doing it.
Having read the posts on this site and others regarding this situation and want to say "IT CANNOT CONTINUE" I talk not about Mr. tanner and his ads and posts but Mr. Filby's actions. Also how can a man who doesn't like getting grease and grime under his fingernails talk about an industry that IMHO is all about doing exactly that. Half the fun of kitcars I feel is the building, and I am a very recent convert. I remember the fun I had as a youth stripping and rebuilding Minis. doing the Spartan I am rediscovering the joy of skinned knuckles bruised thumbs and the smell of swarfega.
Den, I want to thank you for all the help you have given me over my issues (different thread) and apologise if I have been heavy handed in my dealings over the above mentioned issue. I have recently got seriously infected with the Kit Car Bug, a complaint for which I beleive there is no cure and I understand you yourself have been suffering from for several years from what you have said. All i can say is that if I suffer from the problem half as badly as you have then I shall get some real enjoyment from the industry.
PS I am already planning my next car and I haven't even rebuilt the Spartan yet
edited for english
>> Edited by spartan_andy on Monday 29th September 13:33
>> Edited by spartan_andy on Monday 29th September 13:48
I could have gone on to ask more hypothetical questions…..
How many editors do you know (still selling magazines) that do all the above and more - simultaneously?
How many people do you know, who when accused of such things would carry on as if nothing had happened?
How many people do you know, who when reasonably invited by genuinely concerned and open-minded customers would refuse to comment, yet expect those same customers not to be concerned?
How would you react to such a person if he insisted that he was producing a magazine of integrity?
How would you react in the event that you were the hypothetically “clean” publisher who having pointed merely to the tip of the iceberg in accurate factual terms was dismissed as a liar and described as “spineless”?
I think you’d become determined, in such an hypothetical and clearly fictional set of circumstances, to ensure that the truth got broadcast. Especially, hypothetically speaking, if you’d suffered dreadfully for years as a result of that which you were proclaiming. More especially if you’d heard that others were suffering too.
I guess that any hypothetical "clean" publisher would find it hard to find a gentle way of saying what would, in this hypothetical illustration, need saying.
How many editors do you know (still selling magazines) that do all the above and more - simultaneously?
How many people do you know, who when accused of such things would carry on as if nothing had happened?
How many people do you know, who when reasonably invited by genuinely concerned and open-minded customers would refuse to comment, yet expect those same customers not to be concerned?
How would you react to such a person if he insisted that he was producing a magazine of integrity?
How would you react in the event that you were the hypothetically “clean” publisher who having pointed merely to the tip of the iceberg in accurate factual terms was dismissed as a liar and described as “spineless”?
I think you’d become determined, in such an hypothetical and clearly fictional set of circumstances, to ensure that the truth got broadcast. Especially, hypothetically speaking, if you’d suffered dreadfully for years as a result of that which you were proclaiming. More especially if you’d heard that others were suffering too.
spartan_andy said:
"its not what you say but how you say it". . . unfortunately I can't think of another way of doing it.
I guess that any hypothetical "clean" publisher would find it hard to find a gentle way of saying what would, in this hypothetical illustration, need saying.
I agree something must be done and will be writing to Mr. filby, along with the others who have gone before and ask him his feelings on this matter. Given what has gone before I doubt I will get any joy out of it though.
Unfortunatley, there are some very good people working for WK messrs. dean and the like. Have found their writings very interesting I understand they have been asked to join your excellent publication. If they did and you included more build articles i would no longer buy which kit
Unfortunatley, there are some very good people working for WK messrs. dean and the like. Have found their writings very interesting I understand they have been asked to join your excellent publication. If they did and you included more build articles i would no longer buy which kit
spartan_andy said:
Unfortunatley, there are some very good people working for WK messrs. dean and the like. Have found their writings very interesting I understand they have been asked to join your excellent publication. If they did and you included more build articles i would no longer buy which kit
Couldn't agree more, provided the fuzzy adverts go and someone spell checks and proof reads it before it gets sent to the publishers
Somebody on this forum advised me to quit whilst I was winning. I think I’ve won in that I’ve explained were I was coming from. The vast majority accept that there’s much more behind my bitter ramblings than meets the eye. I think Ultimandy has pointed to the obvious in his last posting. What I think he’s saying is that however true my words might be, they’re bitter too. He’s right!
Reiterating the truth isn’t going to take away the sourness, so I’ve finished.
Like I’ve frequently said, my pent up anger exploded and I’m now putting a lid on it.
Fineto with the negative.
Let’s get positive!
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