Three wheeler Cabin Scooter Design
Discussion
IMHO:
The best bit of the Moon beam is it's size and the 'roofdoor'
The rest I'm sure is built around the builder's faciliites.
You do describe the size/facilities of the 2 seater Smart?
Should this be a commutor single seater for work and a bog, Mum with a little one and 4 bags, or a fun eco machine for the individulist?
Our conversations sound like those in the Smart Boardroom a few years ago?!
The best bit of the Moon beam is it's size and the 'roofdoor'
The rest I'm sure is built around the builder's faciliites.
You do describe the size/facilities of the 2 seater Smart?
Should this be a commutor single seater for work and a bog, Mum with a little one and 4 bags, or a fun eco machine for the individulist?
Our conversations sound like those in the Smart Boardroom a few years ago?!
mrmaggit said:
I agree, but the moonbeam looks to "amateurish", you'd struggle to sell it at the price of a scooter!
I agree on the price too, £2500-£3500 tops.
I agrew with you, but the Moonbeam was done as a lowcost project in the guys garage, with a budget of 2500 $ !! He worked with very basic tools and was not going to be a commercial project, but his personal means of transport for local errands......I agree on the price too, £2500-£3500 tops.
fuoriserie said:
mrmaggit said:
I agree, but the moonbeam looks to "amateurish", you'd struggle to sell it at the price of a scooter!
I agree on the price too, £2500-£3500 tops.
I agrew with you, but the Moonbeam was done as a lowcost project in the guys garage, with a budget of 2500 $ !! He worked with very basic tools and was not going to be a commercial project, but his personal means of transport for local errands......I agree on the price too, £2500-£3500 tops.
911hillclimber said:
Should this be a commutor single seater for work and a bog, ?!
could be handy actually, I often get short stuck in traffic.My own take on all this... I really like the idea - stig knows that I'd like to get cracking one of his e-trikes soon as I have somewhere to build it. My biggest problem with most of the examples that have been shown is that they look either:
a. amateur
b. "cute"
c. ugly.
Look at the Sub3 - now that's a 3 wheeler with style, presence and an aggressive stance.
IMHO Most people want to look cool, especially round town. You will never sell a vehicle on being "green". I think I am correct in stating that pure electric vehicle sales almost halved in 2008?
IMHO a two wheeled vehicle is the better option as you can weave through traffic and it stores in a small space as you will probably need a "normal car" as well. Most people can ride a bicycle. It is also lighter and simpler to engineer. Use the scooter base, have 2 seats one behind the other and a stylish covered body with the roof you describe and "bomb bay" doors that open to let your feet down, but which close to keep the road dirt out. Oh yeah - and make it simple to clean!
IMHO a two wheeled vehicle is the better option as you can weave through traffic and it stores in a small space as you will probably need a "normal car" as well. Most people can ride a bicycle. It is also lighter and simpler to engineer. Use the scooter base, have 2 seats one behind the other and a stylish covered body with the roof you describe and "bomb bay" doors that open to let your feet down, but which close to keep the road dirt out. Oh yeah - and make it simple to clean!
I saw one of those in the late 90's at a campsite in Devon. One of the Harley lads was trying to set up a dealership to sell them, and brought one to the rally for our thoughts.
It was very "wobbly" (probably why there are those out-rigger wheels are fitted), but would pull two tubby guys along reasonably well.
Everybody thought it was a joke the French were pulling, but it was fine around the campsite. Nobody at all wanted to take it on the road.
HTH
It was very "wobbly" (probably why there are those out-rigger wheels are fitted), but would pull two tubby guys along reasonably well.
Everybody thought it was a joke the French were pulling, but it was fine around the campsite. Nobody at all wanted to take it on the road.
HTH
Leaves me cold.
I am sure there are more elegant engineering ways to do this, BUT, they HAVE done it.
You do need to get the brief right.
A Discovery is not everyone's cup of tea, some shunn the KA, many love the (BMW) Mini..and of course the real Mini.
For me, the original sketch was right to my eyes, and I love the hybrid pack available too as it provides a wider appeal. 'Green' will not sell cars alone.
Electric cars will be very popular when there are no fossil fuels left, and the world will be a very different place then.
For me the spec is single seat, CofG good and low, Smart footprint and steal the power train form a big scooter or that hybrid for the up-market version.
It is for the individualist, not my wife, bit like a Westfield is for the individual who is away from the norm for a weekend or two each month.
You can place 2 Smarts in a normal car park slot; you can get good mpg, and you can look cool (and be cool with the nifty A/C in there)
Normal car controls, and have a space behind you for BAGS (not bogs...)!
I would like to use the parts off the donar scooter for the safe engineering, just tie it all together.
Maybe when the Lola is all done I will find a written-off scooter or two and a tube bender and some 25mm CDMS....more fun with tubes.
I am sure there are more elegant engineering ways to do this, BUT, they HAVE done it.
You do need to get the brief right.
A Discovery is not everyone's cup of tea, some shunn the KA, many love the (BMW) Mini..and of course the real Mini.
For me, the original sketch was right to my eyes, and I love the hybrid pack available too as it provides a wider appeal. 'Green' will not sell cars alone.
Electric cars will be very popular when there are no fossil fuels left, and the world will be a very different place then.
For me the spec is single seat, CofG good and low, Smart footprint and steal the power train form a big scooter or that hybrid for the up-market version.
It is for the individualist, not my wife, bit like a Westfield is for the individual who is away from the norm for a weekend or two each month.
You can place 2 Smarts in a normal car park slot; you can get good mpg, and you can look cool (and be cool with the nifty A/C in there)
Normal car controls, and have a space behind you for BAGS (not bogs...)!
I would like to use the parts off the donar scooter for the safe engineering, just tie it all together.
Maybe when the Lola is all done I will find a written-off scooter or two and a tube bender and some 25mm CDMS....more fun with tubes.
911hillclimber said:
For me, the original sketch was right to my eyes, and I love the hybrid pack available too as it provides a wider appeal. 'Green' will not sell cars alone.
Electric cars will be very popular when there are no fossil fuels left, and the world will be a very different place then.
For me the spec is single seat, CofG good and low, Smart footprint and steal the power train form a big scooter or that hybrid for the up-market version.
It is for the individualist, not my wife, bit like a Westfield is for the individual who is away from the norm for a weekend or two each month.
You.
I agree with you.......but this is almost 10yrs old now, and i believe this was their first model.Electric cars will be very popular when there are no fossil fuels left, and the world will be a very different place then.
For me the spec is single seat, CofG good and low, Smart footprint and steal the power train form a big scooter or that hybrid for the up-market version.
It is for the individualist, not my wife, bit like a Westfield is for the individual who is away from the norm for a weekend or two each month.
You.
In reference to the original sketch, who knows maybe in the future months something like it could hit the roads.....
Not sure if you guys have seen this?
http://www.aptera.com/look.php
There is an article about it in this months Kit car magazine.
Apparantly it is based on a light aircraft without the wings!!
Ther is also an article about its development on Wikipedia.
http://www.aptera.com/look.php
There is an article about it in this months Kit car magazine.
Apparantly it is based on a light aircraft without the wings!!
Ther is also an article about its development on Wikipedia.
The French thing with stabilisers (how uncool are they!) and the Moonbeam look like some kind of demented bug. Fuoriserie’s concept is in a completely different class.
Have to agree though with 911hillclimber’s comments about narrow and tall which do slightly apply to Fuoriserie’s concept….
How about doing a more modern take on this…
Just thinking off the wall here as I have no idea what the running gear under one of these is – space frame with fibreglass body, 250cc scooter engine, quad-bike front suspension. Personally I preferred the in-line seating idea, or make it a single seater with luggage / shopping space.
Or go totally left-field and use a belly tank bdoy but three wheels…
Have to agree though with 911hillclimber’s comments about narrow and tall which do slightly apply to Fuoriserie’s concept….
How about doing a more modern take on this…
Just thinking off the wall here as I have no idea what the running gear under one of these is – space frame with fibreglass body, 250cc scooter engine, quad-bike front suspension. Personally I preferred the in-line seating idea, or make it a single seater with luggage / shopping space.
Or go totally left-field and use a belly tank bdoy but three wheels…
Being an ex hotrodder and drag racing fan, I'll go for the second Bonneville racer!
The 'one-behind-the-other seating is anti social and the reserve of aeroplanes I think in people's eyes?
Tall and narrow is ok if the CofG is down low. Engine/chassis barrteies etc on the floor, but there is a lot of heavy glass up there, but wys round that. I'm sure the hieght can be flattened by 300mm by a slightly more laid-down approach to the seating.
I would set my design space out by gettig a side and plan view of the smart for two car. Get the same body attitude of the driver, the same height or less and the same track/length
Slip the Big Scooter drivetrain in ther tucked up behind the driver's back and stowage space is above that.
Place the front axle centre line just ahead of the driver's feet.
A simple split beam axle/lower wishbones will do the front (like the French job above) but no Mc Pherson struts. Steal the Scooters front disc braked wheel, one each side with the one caliper reversed. Use the wheels/tyres as they are good. You might even use the mudguards?
Simple rack and pinion, not go-kart steering as it is far too sensitite for Public hands. Go for 1.75 turns lock to lock. Great for sharp driving.
The reverse gear still ghosts this layout, but I think there is a solution to hand electrically on one front wheel.
The 'one-behind-the-other seating is anti social and the reserve of aeroplanes I think in people's eyes?
Tall and narrow is ok if the CofG is down low. Engine/chassis barrteies etc on the floor, but there is a lot of heavy glass up there, but wys round that. I'm sure the hieght can be flattened by 300mm by a slightly more laid-down approach to the seating.
I would set my design space out by gettig a side and plan view of the smart for two car. Get the same body attitude of the driver, the same height or less and the same track/length
Slip the Big Scooter drivetrain in ther tucked up behind the driver's back and stowage space is above that.
Place the front axle centre line just ahead of the driver's feet.
A simple split beam axle/lower wishbones will do the front (like the French job above) but no Mc Pherson struts. Steal the Scooters front disc braked wheel, one each side with the one caliper reversed. Use the wheels/tyres as they are good. You might even use the mudguards?
Simple rack and pinion, not go-kart steering as it is far too sensitite for Public hands. Go for 1.75 turns lock to lock. Great for sharp driving.
The reverse gear still ghosts this layout, but I think there is a solution to hand electrically on one front wheel.
You found the Funtechs then Italo. What you've been sketching has been getting closer and closer to their design it's been fascinating watching it evolve.
I've driven one a couple of years and I'd often also tow it to a city, park up on the outskirts in the car and then take the Funtech into town.
Good to see people getting their head around this type of machine and realising the potential for bubble cars again.
I've driven one a couple of years and I'd often also tow it to a city, park up on the outskirts in the car and then take the Funtech into town.
Good to see people getting their head around this type of machine and realising the potential for bubble cars again.
Edited by qdos on Friday 13th February 09:22
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