Three wheeler Cabin Scooter Design
Discussion
Interesting article about why so many eco-cars are 3 wheelers, with lots of pictures of various models - http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/02/13/greenlings...
robcollingridge said:
Here we go, found a picture:
Rob
That looks exactly like the Prodrive NARO concept from a few years ago (while I worked there).Rob
From reading the blurb, the Smera has powered leaning (like the Carver) while the NARO was free-leaning - in other words it leant like a bike, with counter steering needed. The main area of work was on the control system that superimposed the countersteer over the car-style* steering input.
- i.e. steer left to go left, rather than steer right then left to go left, like on a bike.
I know I am showing my age, but whatever happened to the Keep It Simple Stupid (KISS) principle?
Or even the old adage, "If it can go wrong... it will go wrong!".
Does it now take a computer to make a motor vehicle turn a corner? Why are people so scared of developing lighter, simpler, two wheeled machines?? I have 3 sons at school and they still teach the cycling proficiency you know?
Or even the old adage, "If it can go wrong... it will go wrong!".
Does it now take a computer to make a motor vehicle turn a corner? Why are people so scared of developing lighter, simpler, two wheeled machines?? I have 3 sons at school and they still teach the cycling proficiency you know?
I am sure the simple approach is alive and very well indeed.
A simple tube frame and the scooter power train in the rear with a simple canopy riding wide and low sounds almost locaterfield to me.
Today the product needs to be more though more is the pity too!
Canopy aside, this concept can be very simple which does not mean crude. Doing something simple and well is very hard to do.
I spend all my working and hobby hours trying to do exactly that.
Simple is cheap and reliable and tends to give a fun outcome along the way.
A simple tube frame and the scooter power train in the rear with a simple canopy riding wide and low sounds almost locaterfield to me.
Today the product needs to be more though more is the pity too!
Canopy aside, this concept can be very simple which does not mean crude. Doing something simple and well is very hard to do.
I spend all my working and hobby hours trying to do exactly that.
Simple is cheap and reliable and tends to give a fun outcome along the way.
The motor industry likes 'complicated' just look at all the nonsense they keep shoving on cars and to an extent look at most of the treads in this website.
As soon as anyone produces any kind of vehicle people are lead to think it needs 'more'
More power, more pistons, more ccs, more airbags, more satellites, more computers. Of course it all means that the manufacturers can charge more for what is basically something simple only with a lot of bling added and bling means profit. OK these days there's not that much profit but what it means is it keeps the cheaper simpler vehicles out of Europe in an effort to keep the West's car manufacturers with a market place.
Now the credit crunch is here we're beginning to look at things differently, though the government and it's croanies are trying to stop that, and people are beginning to look at cheaper cars. Most markedly is they are buying second hand rather than new. Something the government does not like at all. Sorry I'm off on my soapbox here
Anyway my point is that KISS is what we need but Gadgets is what we are sold and what we think we need thanks to the marketing guys. These 3 wheel cabin scooters are really what we should be using to commute in and I for one am going to be using one, hopefully when people get familiar with them others will see the attraction to them too. I've been driving these less is more vehicles for several years now and they are superb and in today's traffic I have more fun in them than I could have in my Lotus or Ginetta. That's not to say I'm leaving high performance cars behind. Far from it, I'm also working on a 400bhp/tonne machine but that's more and more being relegated to Sunday use
As soon as anyone produces any kind of vehicle people are lead to think it needs 'more'
More power, more pistons, more ccs, more airbags, more satellites, more computers. Of course it all means that the manufacturers can charge more for what is basically something simple only with a lot of bling added and bling means profit. OK these days there's not that much profit but what it means is it keeps the cheaper simpler vehicles out of Europe in an effort to keep the West's car manufacturers with a market place.
Now the credit crunch is here we're beginning to look at things differently, though the government and it's croanies are trying to stop that, and people are beginning to look at cheaper cars. Most markedly is they are buying second hand rather than new. Something the government does not like at all. Sorry I'm off on my soapbox here
Anyway my point is that KISS is what we need but Gadgets is what we are sold and what we think we need thanks to the marketing guys. These 3 wheel cabin scooters are really what we should be using to commute in and I for one am going to be using one, hopefully when people get familiar with them others will see the attraction to them too. I've been driving these less is more vehicles for several years now and they are superb and in today's traffic I have more fun in them than I could have in my Lotus or Ginetta. That's not to say I'm leaving high performance cars behind. Far from it, I'm also working on a 400bhp/tonne machine but that's more and more being relegated to Sunday use
qdos said:
The motor industry likes 'complicated' just look at all the nonsense they keep shoving on cars and to an extent look at most of the treads in this website.
As soon as anyone produces any kind of vehicle people are lead to think it needs 'more'
More power, more pistons, more ccs, more airbags, more satellites, more computers. Of course it all means that the manufacturers can charge more for what is basically something simple only with a lot of bling added and bling means profit. OK these days there's not that much profit but what it means is it keeps the cheaper simpler vehicles out of Europe in an effort to keep the West's car manufacturers with a market place.
Now the credit crunch is here we're beginning to look at things differently, though the government and it's croanies are trying to stop that, and people are beginning to look at cheaper cars. Most markedly is they are buying second hand rather than new. Something the government does not like at all. Sorry I'm off on my soapbox here
Anyway my point is that KISS is what we need but Gadgets is what we are sold and what we think we need thanks to the marketing guys. These 3 wheel cabin scooters are really what we should be using to commute in and I for one am going to be using one, hopefully when people get familiar with them others will see the attraction to them too. I've been driving these less is more vehicles for several years now and they are superb and in today's traffic I have more fun in them than I could have in my Lotus or Ginetta. That's not to say I'm leaving high performance cars behind. Far from it, I'm also working on a 400bhp/tonne machine but that's more and more being relegated to Sunday use
I totally agree with your thinking and the less is more approach will be back pretty soon.....let's wait the end of 2009 and beginning of 2010 when people will start thinking long and hard on the way they've been living, drive and spend their money on a daily basis, and realize that they could do with a lot less!!As soon as anyone produces any kind of vehicle people are lead to think it needs 'more'
More power, more pistons, more ccs, more airbags, more satellites, more computers. Of course it all means that the manufacturers can charge more for what is basically something simple only with a lot of bling added and bling means profit. OK these days there's not that much profit but what it means is it keeps the cheaper simpler vehicles out of Europe in an effort to keep the West's car manufacturers with a market place.
Now the credit crunch is here we're beginning to look at things differently, though the government and it's croanies are trying to stop that, and people are beginning to look at cheaper cars. Most markedly is they are buying second hand rather than new. Something the government does not like at all. Sorry I'm off on my soapbox here
Anyway my point is that KISS is what we need but Gadgets is what we are sold and what we think we need thanks to the marketing guys. These 3 wheel cabin scooters are really what we should be using to commute in and I for one am going to be using one, hopefully when people get familiar with them others will see the attraction to them too. I've been driving these less is more vehicles for several years now and they are superb and in today's traffic I have more fun in them than I could have in my Lotus or Ginetta. That's not to say I'm leaving high performance cars behind. Far from it, I'm also working on a 400bhp/tonne machine but that's more and more being relegated to Sunday use
A chassis is being welded as we speak with a scooter engine option.....the sliding door concept will be on the second chassis, the first will have a lift up canopy.....
Edited by fuoriserie on Friday 20th February 09:55
fuoriserie said:
qdos said:
The motor industry likes 'complicated' just look at all the nonsense they keep shoving on cars and to an extent look at most of the treads in this website.
As soon as anyone produces any kind of vehicle people are lead to think it needs 'more'
More power, more pistons, more ccs, more airbags, more satellites, more computers. Of course it all means that the manufacturers can charge more for what is basically something simple only with a lot of bling added and bling means profit. OK these days there's not that much profit but what it means is it keeps the cheaper simpler vehicles out of Europe in an effort to keep the West's car manufacturers with a market place.
Now the credit crunch is here we're beginning to look at things differently, though the government and it's croanies are trying to stop that, and people are beginning to look at cheaper cars. Most markedly is they are buying second hand rather than new. Something the government does not like at all. Sorry I'm off on my soapbox here
Anyway my point is that KISS is what we need but Gadgets is what we are sold and what we think we need thanks to the marketing guys. These 3 wheel cabin scooters are really what we should be using to commute in and I for one am going to be using one, hopefully when people get familiar with them others will see the attraction to them too. I've been driving these less is more vehicles for several years now and they are superb and in today's traffic I have more fun in them than I could have in my Lotus or Ginetta. That's not to say I'm leaving high performance cars behind. Far from it, I'm also working on a 400bhp/tonne machine but that's more and more being relegated to Sunday use
I totally agree with your thinking and the less is more approach will be back pretty soon.....let's wait the end of 2009 and beginning of 2010 when people will start thinking long and hard on the way they've been living, drive and spend their money on a daily basis, and realize that they could do with a lot less!!As soon as anyone produces any kind of vehicle people are lead to think it needs 'more'
More power, more pistons, more ccs, more airbags, more satellites, more computers. Of course it all means that the manufacturers can charge more for what is basically something simple only with a lot of bling added and bling means profit. OK these days there's not that much profit but what it means is it keeps the cheaper simpler vehicles out of Europe in an effort to keep the West's car manufacturers with a market place.
Now the credit crunch is here we're beginning to look at things differently, though the government and it's croanies are trying to stop that, and people are beginning to look at cheaper cars. Most markedly is they are buying second hand rather than new. Something the government does not like at all. Sorry I'm off on my soapbox here
Anyway my point is that KISS is what we need but Gadgets is what we are sold and what we think we need thanks to the marketing guys. These 3 wheel cabin scooters are really what we should be using to commute in and I for one am going to be using one, hopefully when people get familiar with them others will see the attraction to them too. I've been driving these less is more vehicles for several years now and they are superb and in today's traffic I have more fun in them than I could have in my Lotus or Ginetta. That's not to say I'm leaving high performance cars behind. Far from it, I'm also working on a 400bhp/tonne machine but that's more and more being relegated to Sunday use
A chassis is being welded as we speak with a scooter engine option.....the sliding door concept will be on the second chassis, the first will have a lift up canopy.....
[quote=FlossyThePigThe problem is, the established motor industry can't compete with the cheap cars coming out of Malaysia/Korea, etc. The only way they could maintain sales was to push all the products more up-market (current economic climate excluded).
[/quote]
I agree with you, but a rethink will be in order to survive the changes that will have to be made in the car manufacturing business, if they want to continue manufacturing in Europe and USA........
Lowcost will become a new trend in the future, even in European cars and motorcycles...
[/quote]
I agree with you, but a rethink will be in order to survive the changes that will have to be made in the car manufacturing business, if they want to continue manufacturing in Europe and USA........
Lowcost will become a new trend in the future, even in European cars and motorcycles...
However this develops you need to keep in mind the market you are trying to get. A 2 seater sports car is different to a 4 seat school run/supermarket/ night out vehicle.
If we sell a commutor 'car' then single seat, economical, minimalist single seater with some baggage room.
Extras? A/C and snazzy wheels or sound deadening kit?
3 seater seems to saying the vehicle is far more than the commutor, and with that comes size, comfort, interior etc.
The original sketch a
that got us going is the former i think, and i do hope it carries the design to a practical end and is not compromised along the way.
Hope the welder is good and quick!
Can't wait for the first pics!
If we sell a commutor 'car' then single seat, economical, minimalist single seater with some baggage room.
Extras? A/C and snazzy wheels or sound deadening kit?
3 seater seems to saying the vehicle is far more than the commutor, and with that comes size, comfort, interior etc.
The original sketch a
that got us going is the former i think, and i do hope it carries the design to a practical end and is not compromised along the way.
Hope the welder is good and quick!
Can't wait for the first pics!
In Classic and Sports Car this month there was a good article about a guy driving a messerschmitt KR201 190cc 2 up with luggage on a long trip in Europe. The little thing looked really sweet in black. I looked on some American sites and they can fetch..... wait for it...... $25,000 - WOW!
I think Tri Tech made a replica called the Schmitt a while ago? I believe they went out of business? Anyone know if a kit will be put back into production?
I started looking at a 650cc Daewoo Matiz and realised it had a lot of really good parts you could use to make a really cool front wheel drive 3 wheeler. On Ebay there were 2 slightly damaged examples for 99p with no reserve and no bids either! A fairly good Matiz on Autotrader with full MOT etc is around £650.
I think I have next winters project sorted! It has got to be green recycling an existing car.
I think Tri Tech made a replica called the Schmitt a while ago? I believe they went out of business? Anyone know if a kit will be put back into production?
I started looking at a 650cc Daewoo Matiz and realised it had a lot of really good parts you could use to make a really cool front wheel drive 3 wheeler. On Ebay there were 2 slightly damaged examples for 99p with no reserve and no bids either! A fairly good Matiz on Autotrader with full MOT etc is around £650.
I think I have next winters project sorted! It has got to be green recycling an existing car.
fuoriserie said:
a new rough sketch.........with imput ideas from ajprice, and have to say that, I really like it.....
I'm a bit late to this thread (or at least to the start of it), and I may be missing something, but isn't the "header rail" at the upper edge of the windscreen slap bang in the driver's eye-line? Without making the roof a lot taller, isn't this always going to be the case?Edited by fuoriserie on Tuesday 3rd February 17:31
I'm also a bit concerned that, in the even of an accident of almost any kind, there looks to be a strong possibility of the canopy becoming jammed shut.
I don't want to pour cold water on the idea - many aspects of it I really like - but I'm going through my own design project at the moment for a small car, and briefly toyed with a canopy such as this before rejecting it on these - and other - grounds.
Maybe I didn't try hard enough
Chequred Demon said:
In Classic and Sports Car this month there was a good article about a guy driving a messerschmitt KR201 190cc 2 up with luggage on a long trip in Europe. The little thing looked really sweet in black. I looked on some American sites and they can fetch..... wait for it...... $25,000 - WOW!
Blimey, I know of a bloke who has a field full of them, literally. Edited by Davi on Saturday 21st February 14:25
skwdenyer said:
fuoriserie said:
a new rough sketch.........with imput ideas from ajprice, and have to say that, I really like it.....
I'm a bit late to this thread (or at least to the start of it), and I may be missing something, but isn't the "header rail" at the upper edge of the windscreen slap bang in the driver's eye-line? Without making the roof a lot taller, isn't this always going to be the case?Edited by fuoriserie on Tuesday 3rd February 17:31
I'm also a bit concerned that, in the even of an accident of almost any kind, there looks to be a strong possibility of the canopy becoming jammed shut.
I don't want to pour cold water on the idea - many aspects of it I really like - but I'm going through my own design project at the moment for a small car, and briefly toyed with a canopy such as this before rejecting it on these - and other - grounds.
Maybe I didn't try hard enough
Edited by fuoriserie on Saturday 21st February 14:59
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