Three wheeler Cabin Scooter Design

Three wheeler Cabin Scooter Design

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fuoriserie

Original Poster:

4,560 posts

270 months

Saturday 21st February 2009
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qdos said:
You see. We've gone from a single seat to a two seater and now someone wants a third seat. Next it will be another wheel !!! LOL

Yep I'm keen to see what Italo is hinting at too. I wonder who's is going to be first? wink
You will make it first for sure.........smile

fuoriserie

Original Poster:

4,560 posts

270 months

Saturday 21st February 2009
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911hillclimber said:
The original sketch a
that got us going is the former i think, and i do hope it carries the design to a practical end and is not compromised along the way.

Hope the welder is good and quick!
Can't wait for the first pics!
The welder is very good.......smile

skwdenyer

16,632 posts

241 months

Saturday 21st February 2009
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fuoriserie said:
skwdenyer said:
fuoriserie said:
a new rough sketch.........with imput ideas from ajprice, and have to say that, I really like it.....smile


Edited by fuoriserie on Tuesday 3rd February 17:31
I'm a bit late to this thread (or at least to the start of it), and I may be missing something, but isn't the "header rail" at the upper edge of the windscreen slap bang in the driver's eye-line? Without making the roof a lot taller, isn't this always going to be the case?

I'm also a bit concerned that, in the even of an accident of almost any kind, there looks to be a strong possibility of the canopy becoming jammed shut.

I don't want to pour cold water on the idea - many aspects of it I really like - but I'm going through my own design project at the moment for a small car, and briefly toyed with a canopy such as this before rejecting it on these - and other - grounds.

Maybe I didn't try hard enough smile
Remeber it's just a rough napskin sketch, the real thing would have to take into consideration, as you say, all the things you commented on........and you would need a chassis to play with to find most of the answers.....


Edited by fuoriserie on Saturday 21st February 14:59
Oh, I do understand that. I just couldn't quite see a way to keep the wonderful "helmet" lines of the canopy and the opening mechanism and any forward visibility, that's all. And, since you said somebody had expressed interest in taking it further, I wondered if you'd thought how to overcome these. Of course, if there's commercial interest now, I can understand you not wanting / being able to share those with us!

911hillclimber

486 posts

196 months

Sunday 22nd February 2009
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The visibility issues is quite hard to fix, but the access issue is always there. I think that is simply one of minimising the risk of trapment, but early bubble cars were just as 'vulnerable'?

The canopy line in the original sketch was high in comparison I think

Davi

17,153 posts

221 months

Sunday 22nd February 2009
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911hillclimber said:
The visibility issues is quite hard to fix, but the access issue is always there. I think that is simply one of minimising the risk of trapment, but early bubble cars were just as 'vulnerable'?

The canopy line in the original sketch was high in comparison I think
Risk of trapment is an odd one for me (being highly claustrophobic!) I've spent ages trying to work out a canopy system that could still be opened if inverted, right up till someone pointed out a couple of things to me: firstly it's very easy to become trapped in ANY vehicle - a medium roll in a car can very quickly result in no doors being openable, and seatbelts can be nigh on impossible to release if you are suspended upside down by them. Secondly, on a vehicle such as this design it would be virtually impossible to end up upside down - at worst end up on your side which is much more escapable.

I can't remember which car it is but there was one with gullwing doors that you could pull a pin out in an emergency so the door could pretty much be shoved straight off. I think a simple release mechanism on the pivot point on Italo's design could be employed to much the same effect.

Of course early bubble cars you could trap yourself in just by parking face on to a brick wall hehe

Edited by Davi on Sunday 22 February 09:04

skwdenyer

16,632 posts

241 months

Sunday 22nd February 2009
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Davi said:
911hillclimber said:
The visibility issues is quite hard to fix, but the access issue is always there. I think that is simply one of minimising the risk of trapment, but early bubble cars were just as 'vulnerable'?

The canopy line in the original sketch was high in comparison I think
Risk of trapment is an odd one for me (being highly claustrophobic!) I've spent ages trying to work out a canopy system that could still be opened if inverted, right up till someone pointed out a couple of things to me: firstly it's very easy to become trapped in ANY vehicle - a medium roll in a car can very quickly result in no doors being openable, and seatbelts can be nigh on impossible to release if you are suspended upside down by them. Secondly, on a vehicle such as this design it would be virtually impossible to end up upside down - at worst end up on your side which is much more escapable.

I can't remember which car it is but there was one with gullwing doors that you could pull a pin out in an emergency so the door could pretty much be shoved straight off. I think a simple release mechanism on the pivot point on Italo's design could be employed to much the same effect.

Of course early bubble cars you could trap yourself in just by parking face on to a brick wall hehe

Edited by Davi on Sunday 22 February 09:04
Of course, the key thing is to make sure that the canopy is made of glass, and make sure there is an escape hammer inside the cabin! Where it becomes a big issue is if you try to get away with making the canopy out of some sort of polymer, which you might be legally allowed to do under the "motorbike" and "quadricycle" etc. regulations.

As to the ISO Isetta and getting trapped against a wall: IIRC that was why all UK-supplied vehicles had a full-length fabric sunroof smile

mrmaggit

10,146 posts

249 months

Sunday 22nd February 2009
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I have to say I'm impressed at the amount of constructive and well thought out criticism coming through.

All the suggestions of possible problems (and possible solutions) to me show that there are people on here really wishing this project to get off the ground.

As I said earlier, I'm really looking forward to seeing a mock-up.

maggit

Chequred Demon

508 posts

195 months

Sunday 22nd February 2009
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hi Davi,

Go out and buy all those Messerschmitts!

You could get loads in a container.


911hillclimber

486 posts

196 months

Sunday 22nd February 2009
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Have you seen how much thay command now! Huge money, esp if it is a rare Tiger or convertable.

This is a great thread, and everything and every point made is aimed at a focused sucessful result.

Break glass is clearly the way forward. Today, I have spent the day with my car club promoting safe driving and watched a fire team decapitate a simulated wrecked car with a real (acting) person inside. The car was upside down etc.
I believe there is NOTHING those guys (and 2 girls) couldn't get into with the minimum of fuss.
The risky bit is landing in a deep water filled ditch on a country lane when you are on your own. The canopy and chassis become a very very sturdy roll cage, almost egg shaped so strong indeed. Safety glass pops very easily to expose the way out. All depends if you are in a fit state to 'alight' the vehicle. It is at this stage the seat belt becomes a hinderence.....

I wish I was doing this project!

Maybe when my race car is done later this year.

I hope they have the chassis roughed together by now (and have worked-out the reverse gear!

Edited by 911hillclimber on Sunday 22 February 16:21

skwdenyer

16,632 posts

241 months

Sunday 22nd February 2009
quotequote all
911hillclimber said:
I hope they have the chassis roughed together by now (and have worked-out the reverse gear!
Can the reverse gear not just be bought-in from Piaggio, who fit one to the Ape micro-commercials? It is a simple reverse unit, separate to the main gearbox, operated in the Apes by a simple lever. Works in any gear smile

As an aside, I had the opportunity to buy 8 fully-road-legal, 4-year-old Ape vans a couple of years ago for £3k for the lot. Still regret not doing that deal!

911hillclimber

486 posts

196 months

Sunday 22nd February 2009
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Forgive my ignorance, but I was not aware of that fact! That is excellent as it removes the important stumbling block to making such a vehicle viable I feel.

The only trick bit is the glass work now at a realistic cost/tooling?
Plastic is not durable enough for day to day use even as side glass where visibility is king esp in certain sunlight conditions where scratching blinds the user.

fuoriserie

Original Poster:

4,560 posts

270 months

Monday 23rd February 2009
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skwdenyer said:
911hillclimber said:
I hope they have the chassis roughed together by now (and have worked-out the reverse gear!
Can the reverse gear not just be bought-in from Piaggio, who fit one to the Ape micro-commercials? It is a simple reverse unit, separate to the main gearbox, operated in the Apes by a simple lever. Works in any gear smile
!
Will look into that option.....it shouldn't be that difficult for me to find a few rusted Ape 50cc in Italy.......biggrin

fuoriserie

Original Poster:

4,560 posts

270 months

Monday 23rd February 2009
quotequote all
911hillclimber said:
The only trick bit is the glass work now at a realistic cost/tooling?
Plastic is not durable enough for day to day use even as side glass where visibility is king esp in certain sunlight conditions where scratching blinds the user.
I've simplified the design futher just to make it feasible.....smile

Davi

17,153 posts

221 months

Monday 23rd February 2009
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911hillclimber said:
Forgive my ignorance, but I was not aware of that fact! That is excellent as it removes the important stumbling block to making such a vehicle viable I feel.

The only trick bit is the glass work now at a realistic cost/tooling?
Plastic is not durable enough for day to day use even as side glass where visibility is king esp in certain sunlight conditions where scratching blinds the user.
I'm not so sure, when I was researching glass for my project I was told by loads of people that the latest gen of hard coated plastics would outlast me. I'd certainly not write it's usage off.

fuoriserie

Original Poster:

4,560 posts

270 months

Monday 23rd February 2009
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a scooter engine diagram for those interested in working on a personal threewheeler project.....


fuoriserie

Original Poster:

4,560 posts

270 months

Monday 23rd February 2009
quotequote all
A Mopetta.......wheels on the wrong side, but very cute...













Davi

17,153 posts

221 months

Monday 23rd February 2009
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fuoriserie said:
A Mopetta.......wheels on the wrong side, but very cute...

Those pics are an exercise in showing us how NOT to proceed, right?! wink

fuoriserie

Original Poster:

4,560 posts

270 months

Monday 23rd February 2009
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http://www.pilch.org.uk/cmdt3/

interesting project.......

fuoriserie

Original Poster:

4,560 posts

270 months

Monday 23rd February 2009
quotequote all
Davi said:
fuoriserie said:
A Mopetta.......wheels on the wrong side, but very cute...

Those pics are an exercise in showing us how NOT to proceed, right?! wink
Yep......biggrin

fuoriserie

Original Poster:

4,560 posts

270 months

Monday 23rd February 2009
quotequote all