Sierra driveshafts - Handed nuts?

[mattstead]

Hi there, The sierra / granada have handed nuts on the end of the driveshafts. The nyloc on these are coloured green or white depending on which side they are from.
My problem is that I've had some new driveshafts made and can't remember which colour / hand goes on which side and I don't want to get it wrong in case the end result is a wheel falling off.

Does anyone know?

thanks.

[asn163]

I don't. know anything about the colour coding of nuts, but on the driveshafts that are handed, you tighten towards the front.

HTH

Simon

[tribbles]

And you shouldn't be able to put a wrong-handed nut on the wrong thread.

Unless you used a very large bar to tighten it up, in which case one'll cut a thread in the other.

(Always try it by hand to start off with!)

[silverian535]

This assumes that you have the stub axles already assembled to the hubs - but if they are sitting in a box in the garage like mine are...

I would be interested in knowing whether green is right and white is left or vice-versa.

[mattstead]

tribbles said:

And you shouldn't be able to put a wrong-handed nut on the wrong thread.

Unless you used a very large bar to tighten it up, in which case one'll cut a thread in the other.

(Always try it by hand to start off with!)

Thanks for the advice, but not kind of what I meant (God help the rest of the build if I couldn't work out how to put a nut on - although I do have my moments).

I've sent my original driveshafts of for "lengthening" (actually had new ones made to be legal), and what has come back is a selection of shafts and lobro cv joints etc.
The shafts are slightly different lengths on the different sides of the car, and I need to ensure I put the correct cv joint and threaded drive onto the correct shaft so that. I mentioned the colour of the nyloc nuts just incase someone could look at their shafts, however the suggestion that the nuts tighten towards the front of the car seems like a good one.

[migwell]

tribbles said:

And you shouldn't be able to put a wrong-handed nut on the wrong thread.

Unless you used a very large bar to tighten it up, in which case one'll cut a thread in the other.

(Always try it by hand to start off with!)

Yes , i believe 1 is left and 1 is right handed thread, impossible to mix unless its forced, but as you have different bits im lost

[GreenV8S]

silverian535 said:

This assumes that you have the stub axles already assembled to the hubs - but if they are sitting in a box in the garage like mine are...

I would be interested in knowing whether green is right and white is left or vice-versa.

As others have said, the left hand thread goes on the left of the car, so that as you tighten the hub nut it tries to roll the car forwards. (No idea which colour is which, sorry.)

[mattstead]

thanks for that, glad I managed to make my self clear to some people.

Thankyou to all for their replys.

[mattstead]

asn163 said:

I don't. know anything about the colour coding of nuts, but on the driveshafts that are handed, you tighten towards the front.

HTH

Simon

The more I read and think about this, the more that this doesn't make sense. Surely you'd tighten them in the opposite direction to normal wheel rotation so they don't undo. I found this write up most interesting (and worrying for westfield owner who just followed the instructions)

http://www.megabusa-build.co.uk/diary.php?diary_id...

[The Black Flash]

Don't think so...the wheel is turning (anticlockwise in the case of the nearside one) and will hence be pushing (via friction) the hub nut in the same direction. So you use a LH thread so that anticlockwise = tighter.

Pretty sure that's the case, don't have my sierra haynes manual to hand to check, but I'm sure it's LH hub = LH thread - same as pedals on bikes.

[Mr2Mike]

mattstead said:

The more I read and think about this, the more that this doesn't make sense. Surely you'd tighten them in the opposite direction to normal wheel rotation so they don't undo. I found this write up most interesting (and worrying for westfield owner who just followed the instructions)

http://www.megabusa-build.co.uk/diary.php?diary_id...

The information in that link is incorrect, to ensure self tightening the nut must tighten in the same direction as the rotation of the hub.

This is exactly the same as centre lock wheels, and makes sense if you consider the relative motion of the hub and stub axle with a loose nut and some clearance in the splines. In this case the hub will not sit straight on the splines but will be slightly skewed up at the outside end. This means contact between the nut and the hub occurs only at a point at the bottom of the nut clamping face. Because of the skew of the hub, this point is effectively moving faster than the nut and stub axle. This bit is hard to explain, but the radius of the contact point on the hub to the centre of the hub is larger than the contact point on the nut to the centre of the stub axle. Since the rotational speed is the same, the point on the larger radius has a higher linear speed. Since this motion wants to turn the nut in the direction of rotation, clearly you must arrange things so this tightens rather than loosens the nut.

This rather poor and exaggerated drawing might make it a bit clearer:

Edited by Mr2Mike on Friday 21st August 13:41

[project 112]

just had a look at my nuts,lol left hand threaded one has small "nicks" like small saw cuts on the outside and is white, right hand is green,does anybody know what the torque setting is for these nuts?

[The Black Flash]

"FT", I think

Mr Haynes says:

Rear Hub Nut: 250-290Nm / 185-214 lbft

[project 112]

thanks for that, i knew they were FT because i had to heat the old ones up just to get them off looks like i,ll have to borrow a big torque wrench from work when it comes to "nipping" them up lol

[Comadis]

"just had a look at my nuts,lol left hand threaded one has small "nicks" like small saw cuts on the outside"


everybody who has a "little" knowledge about engineering should know that the above mentioned "nicks" indicate a left handed thread.

i´m always wondering how many unskilled people think they can repair their cars themselves, without having any clue about basic mechanical knowledge!!!

[Milky Bar Kid]

Comadis said:

"just had a look at my nuts,lol left hand threaded one has small "nicks" like small saw cuts on the outside"


everybody who has a "little" knowledge about engineering should know that the above mentioned "nicks" indicate a left handed thread.

i´m always wondering how many unskilled people think they can repair their cars themselves, without having any clue about basic mechanical knowledge!!!

How often, really, do you come across left handed threads now a days? I had no idea that a left hand threaded nut would have said marks on it, but I've still managed to repair everything that has ever gone wrong on my cars and built an engine or two as well with no real engineering training.
Besides which, if you take something apart in a sensible manner, ie lay out what you're taking apart left to right across the bench/floor/what ever you have to hand, it won't make a jot of difference how much knowledge you have, you'll put the right bit back where it came from. OK, if you do then put those bits in a box without labelling them you're asking for trouble. Or if you don't ask the people making the shafts for you to identify which is which.

[Mr2Mike]

Comadis said:

i´m always wondering how many unskilled people think they can repair their cars themselves, without having any clue about basic mechanical knowledge!!!

Lack of knowledge of relatively obscure (in automotive terms) markings on fasteners hardly implies a lack of ability to repair cars.

[LaurenceFrost]

That's my build diary linked to above. I remember all of that confusion and when we were trying to sort out which part was wrong etc. I was assured that you always tighten AGAINST the normal rotation of the wheel.

I've gone through it again and again in my head and I'm still convinced that's right.

The driveshafts will always rotate forward, so surely the drive shaft nuts have to be tightened towards the back of the car?

Take the drivers side wheel for example (reverse-thread), if you face the wheel as if you were removing it, the driveshaft will turn in a forward (clockwise) motion. If the nut was held still by a wrench, the clockwise motion of the wheel will tighten the nut. Therefore, my logic is that if the wheel was held still, the nut will be still, so the drive shaft will be tightening against the nut.

If this is wrong then I'll change the build diary as the last thing I'd want to do is mislead people!

I just can't see how this is wrong though!

[GreenV8S]

LaurenceFrost said:

That's my build diary linked to above. I remember all of that confusion and when we were trying to sort out which part was wrong etc. I was assured that you always tighten AGAINST the normal rotation of the wheel.

I've gone through it again and again in my head and I'm still convinced that's right.

The driveshafts will always rotate forward, so surely the drive shaft nuts have to be tightened towards the back of the car?

Take the drivers side wheel for example (reverse-thread), if you face the wheel as if you were removing it, the driveshaft will turn in a forward (clockwise) motion. If the nut was held still by a wrench, the clockwise motion of the wheel will tighten the nut. Therefore, my logic is that if the wheel was held still, the nut will be still, so the drive shaft will be tightening against the nut.

If this is wrong then I'll change the build diary as the last thing I'd want to do is mislead people!

I just can't see how this is wrong though!

It's wrong.

When you tighten the nut, it should be trying to roll the vehicle forwards; the left hand thread goes on the left side of the vehicle.

[project 112]

Comadis said:

"just had a look at my nuts,lol left hand threaded one has small "nicks" like small saw cuts on the outside"


everybody who has a "little" knowledge about engineering should know that the above mentioned "nicks" indicate a left handed thread.

i´m always wondering how many unskilled people think they can repair their cars themselves, without having any clue about basic mechanical knowledge!!!

yes comadis i did know the little "nicks" indicate a left hand thread i was just trying to help some people who might not be as clever as you, and little knowledge of engineering led to the posting the question in the first place