Three Wheelers - Your opinions and expertise wanted!
Discussion
Am I right in saying that, in the Morgan, there appears to be no transverse bracing of the top-front of the suspension cage? I certainly can't see any in the pics posted so far, unless something bolt-on is added later. The Liberty Ace does exhibit a chrome cross-bar, although even that is bent in the middle! Maybe the forces involved with such cars don't make transverse strengthening essential?
dave de roxby said:
Maybe the forces involved with such cars don't make transverse strengthening essential?
I'm sure they're adequately strong even with the kinked tie bar and bending loads into the middle of the wishbones, given the light weight and negligible torsional chassis loading you get with a trike (hence the lack of triangulation on the rest of the chassis), but it still seems to be a very inelegant and amateurish approach, stucturally speaking.There's no reason you can't do it right, so doing it wrong just seems lazy and sloppy?
I think on balance I'd stick with a Triking and save myself £15K.
Sam_68 said:
dave de roxby said:
Maybe the forces involved with such cars don't make transverse strengthening essential?
I'm sure they're adequately strong even with the kinked tie bar and bending loads into the middle of the wishbones, given the light weight and negligible torsional chassis loading you get with a trike (hence the lack of triangulation on the rest of the chassis), but it still seems to be a very inelegant and amateurish approach, stucturally speaking.There's no reason you can't do it right, so doing it wrong just seems lazy and sloppy?
I think on balance I'd stick with a Triking and save myself £15K.
On another point, as much as I can admire these 1930's re-creations, why can't we produce something more up-to-date for goodness sakes!! That's where I am trying to go.
Very interesting Italo!
I had not seen any of those images before, thanks.
A CSC member went to the Morgan Factory recently and wrote up a little report on the new 3 wheeler-
I had not seen any of those images before, thanks.
A CSC member went to the Morgan Factory recently and wrote up a little report on the new 3 wheeler-
Ron from CSC said:
Well, you know they say you should never meet your heroes!
First some background. I was hooked on 3 wheelers from the age of 8-9 when my dad got a Gordon and I helped him renovate it (probably around 1957/58). Then he got a new Bond Minicar when they were first released – first one in Northampton from Moto Baldet, if memory serves me well. After a few more years he needed 4 wheels, as the family grew, so sold the Bond.
My first 3 wheeler was a Berkeley T60, at the age of 17. Then I had an Isetta whilst I was at college. Got married and needed some wheels to carry the family, so a tatty old Reliant Regal with an “on/off” clutch was bought to do up. Then I had a reliant Robin that I used to overtake “normal” cars on the M1 (when I was on my own), just to see the surprise/anger that this unstable piece of plastic burning them off!! My kids cringe at the thought that they were transported all over the country in this bright red Robin, but I loved it. I too then needed 4 wheels as the family grew, so did without a 3 wheeler for a while.
All that time, I thought the best vehicle that anyone could ever own (aside from motorbikes), was a Morgan 3 wheeler. Given the rarity of them, not to mention the cost, I realised I was unlikely to get one. So, in 1991, I decided to build a Lomax. I still have it, and may even complete it one day – although this is unlikely as I will never define the parameters for “completed”.
Then, Morgan announced that they are going to build 3 wheelers again! What joy – I can get one. If I had not retired in 2002 I would have immediately have put a deposit down without a second thought. If I want one now I would have to sell my motorbikes, L200, and Lomax.
I have always liked all Morgans, so as a treat, I went with my wife for the Morgan factory tour yesterday. I figured I might also get to see the new 3 wheeler. It was fantastic to see cars still being built by hand – wonderful smells and sounds all around the factory - but the real goal for me was to come at the end. I would get to see the 3 wheeler.
We went into the building where it will be built, and there it was in the middle of a large empty floor – looking all drab and “ordinary”. It was a bog standard grey one with black mudguards, headlamps, wheels, exhaust. It did have a nice big shiny S&S vee twin on the front though. Much to my surprise, no increase in heart rate, no “wow look at that”, no tongue hanging out, etc. etc. – even my wife noticed and asked what was up!
Realising that I might get refused, I did not ask if I could sit in it. I just figured it would be easier to ask for forgiveness, rather than permission, so I jumped straight in it. This has been my dream since the age of 9 (53 years ago!).
I realised that they were trying to make it look authentic, and I realised that the original ones were “snug”, but this was a tight fit. I am overweight (all belly – normal everywhere else), but it was not my belly that was squashed, it really is tight width wise. I just had a light jacket and jeans on, and I felt too cramped. Flying jackets, two up would be more than snug! The seats were lovely, but narrow. The pedals move fore and aft, and legroom is also narrow. The instruments do not look right to me. I know that Morgan said they were not just building a replica of the old cars, but I think some period dials would be better (I thought this from the first moment I saw the publicity photos). I got out, and had another look around the car. It looks OK, I suppose - it has a huge rear tyre under the back, and will go like stink!!!
BUT – I like the look and feel (and size!) of my Lomax better than the Morgan. I like JZRs, Trikings, etc. better than the new Morgan 3 wheeler.
I am shell shocked, which is why I am writing this long post. My dream is shattered – after over 50 years. My wife guessed immediately. As soon as the 3 wheeler was announced I had told her that I would gladly give up all my other toys, just to own the car of my dreams. Now, I might consider it if I win the lottery (I don’t do the Lottery, but she does!).
To console myself, I had another look at the price list this morning and can see I can get it all shiny and I can have it in brighter colours, but that would cost me £35k (at today’s prices – I guess more by the time it would be built in over 2 years time). But I would still feel too cramped (at elbow level, the inside of the cockpit is about 5 of my hand spans wide – about 35” and Lomax is 41”).
The Morgan build quality is absolute tops and it will go like a rocket, but I would not sacrifice my other toys for it. I will go for a test drive when they have built the demonstrators, so I may be back on here in 6 months to say I have ordered one, but I doubt it.
I was told that they are starting production next month. Pre-production of parts is under way already in the back of the building, and they will be kitting out the large empty floor shortly. The first 2 years production is sold out already.
Bottom line – I come back to one thing. Even though I have (had!) always wanted a Morgan 3 wheeler, I realise now that there is a much stronger emotion about 3 wheelers than coveting a Morgan – it was ME who built my Lomax. Even though skilled craftsmen build the Morgan, using the same tools/techniques us “kit car” boys use, when you build it yourself it is special to you.
Right, I am off out now for a ride in my Lomax – time for some big grins to ease my pain.
First some background. I was hooked on 3 wheelers from the age of 8-9 when my dad got a Gordon and I helped him renovate it (probably around 1957/58). Then he got a new Bond Minicar when they were first released – first one in Northampton from Moto Baldet, if memory serves me well. After a few more years he needed 4 wheels, as the family grew, so sold the Bond.
My first 3 wheeler was a Berkeley T60, at the age of 17. Then I had an Isetta whilst I was at college. Got married and needed some wheels to carry the family, so a tatty old Reliant Regal with an “on/off” clutch was bought to do up. Then I had a reliant Robin that I used to overtake “normal” cars on the M1 (when I was on my own), just to see the surprise/anger that this unstable piece of plastic burning them off!! My kids cringe at the thought that they were transported all over the country in this bright red Robin, but I loved it. I too then needed 4 wheels as the family grew, so did without a 3 wheeler for a while.
All that time, I thought the best vehicle that anyone could ever own (aside from motorbikes), was a Morgan 3 wheeler. Given the rarity of them, not to mention the cost, I realised I was unlikely to get one. So, in 1991, I decided to build a Lomax. I still have it, and may even complete it one day – although this is unlikely as I will never define the parameters for “completed”.
Then, Morgan announced that they are going to build 3 wheelers again! What joy – I can get one. If I had not retired in 2002 I would have immediately have put a deposit down without a second thought. If I want one now I would have to sell my motorbikes, L200, and Lomax.
I have always liked all Morgans, so as a treat, I went with my wife for the Morgan factory tour yesterday. I figured I might also get to see the new 3 wheeler. It was fantastic to see cars still being built by hand – wonderful smells and sounds all around the factory - but the real goal for me was to come at the end. I would get to see the 3 wheeler.
We went into the building where it will be built, and there it was in the middle of a large empty floor – looking all drab and “ordinary”. It was a bog standard grey one with black mudguards, headlamps, wheels, exhaust. It did have a nice big shiny S&S vee twin on the front though. Much to my surprise, no increase in heart rate, no “wow look at that”, no tongue hanging out, etc. etc. – even my wife noticed and asked what was up!
Realising that I might get refused, I did not ask if I could sit in it. I just figured it would be easier to ask for forgiveness, rather than permission, so I jumped straight in it. This has been my dream since the age of 9 (53 years ago!).
I realised that they were trying to make it look authentic, and I realised that the original ones were “snug”, but this was a tight fit. I am overweight (all belly – normal everywhere else), but it was not my belly that was squashed, it really is tight width wise. I just had a light jacket and jeans on, and I felt too cramped. Flying jackets, two up would be more than snug! The seats were lovely, but narrow. The pedals move fore and aft, and legroom is also narrow. The instruments do not look right to me. I know that Morgan said they were not just building a replica of the old cars, but I think some period dials would be better (I thought this from the first moment I saw the publicity photos). I got out, and had another look around the car. It looks OK, I suppose - it has a huge rear tyre under the back, and will go like stink!!!
BUT – I like the look and feel (and size!) of my Lomax better than the Morgan. I like JZRs, Trikings, etc. better than the new Morgan 3 wheeler.
I am shell shocked, which is why I am writing this long post. My dream is shattered – after over 50 years. My wife guessed immediately. As soon as the 3 wheeler was announced I had told her that I would gladly give up all my other toys, just to own the car of my dreams. Now, I might consider it if I win the lottery (I don’t do the Lottery, but she does!).
To console myself, I had another look at the price list this morning and can see I can get it all shiny and I can have it in brighter colours, but that would cost me £35k (at today’s prices – I guess more by the time it would be built in over 2 years time). But I would still feel too cramped (at elbow level, the inside of the cockpit is about 5 of my hand spans wide – about 35” and Lomax is 41”).
The Morgan build quality is absolute tops and it will go like a rocket, but I would not sacrifice my other toys for it. I will go for a test drive when they have built the demonstrators, so I may be back on here in 6 months to say I have ordered one, but I doubt it.
I was told that they are starting production next month. Pre-production of parts is under way already in the back of the building, and they will be kitting out the large empty floor shortly. The first 2 years production is sold out already.
Bottom line – I come back to one thing. Even though I have (had!) always wanted a Morgan 3 wheeler, I realise now that there is a much stronger emotion about 3 wheelers than coveting a Morgan – it was ME who built my Lomax. Even though skilled craftsmen build the Morgan, using the same tools/techniques us “kit car” boys use, when you build it yourself it is special to you.
Right, I am off out now for a ride in my Lomax – time for some big grins to ease my pain.
Thanks Niall for posting the report on the new Morgan...
A new commuter three wheeler
http://www.arcimoto.com/journey/arcimoto-story-so-...
A new commuter three wheeler
http://www.arcimoto.com/journey/arcimoto-story-so-...
fuoriserie said:
This is one of the rare ocassions when what is produced looks a lot better than what was done by the computer graphics department...
I had seen this design a few months ago, but you can now see a video of this Tricar:
I like the canopy design:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_a7Ew8Xmc9M&NR=...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BvXEHVMAng&NR=...
I like the canopy design:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_a7Ew8Xmc9M&NR=...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BvXEHVMAng&NR=...
Tim Cotterill's Rocket II Trike
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeNLMN_RqSI&fea...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYTeSTWvCN0&fea...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY-a3oXNmhI&fea...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=su7gNQf8gK8&fea...
Amazing design and shoking the amount of new tyres you'ld need everytime you use it....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeNLMN_RqSI&fea...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYTeSTWvCN0&fea...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY-a3oXNmhI&fea...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=su7gNQf8gK8&fea...
Amazing design and shoking the amount of new tyres you'ld need everytime you use it....
Edited by fuoriserie on Wednesday 18th May 10:42
fuoriserie said:
Tim Cotterill's Rocket II Trike
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeNLMN_RqSI&fea...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYTeSTWvCN0&fea...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY-a3oXNmhI&fea...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=su7gNQf8gK8&fea...
Amazing design and shoking the amount of new tyres you'ld need everytime you use it....
Wow is all I can say.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeNLMN_RqSI&fea...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYTeSTWvCN0&fea...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY-a3oXNmhI&fea...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=su7gNQf8gK8&fea...
Amazing design and shoking the amount of new tyres you'ld need everytime you use it....
Edited by fuoriserie on Wednesday 18th May 10:42
Interesting thread. My first car (as a callow 16 year old back in 1964) was a Berkeley T60 – 328cc of pure power!! Hmm - now a modern version with the engine from my Vmax would be very entertaining.
As a Gordon-Keeble owner I’m a bit of a fan of Jim Keeble (alas no longer with us). Before his death Jim had been working on a 3 wheeler the prototype of which is, I understand, on display in the Hampshire County Council museum.
It’s claimed to have been designed to do 125mph. I haven’t seen it myself but it may be worth a look if you are ever in the area.
Here it is:
As a Gordon-Keeble owner I’m a bit of a fan of Jim Keeble (alas no longer with us). Before his death Jim had been working on a 3 wheeler the prototype of which is, I understand, on display in the Hampshire County Council museum.
It’s claimed to have been designed to do 125mph. I haven’t seen it myself but it may be worth a look if you are ever in the area.
Here it is:
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