Three Wheelers - Your opinions and expertise wanted!
Discussion
Here is a prototype EV trike I am playing with. I love the idea of leaning in to corners like on a bike but without the risk of fall off. I have made several TTW's (tilting three wheelers) in the past to a varying level of success. One of them has a registered patent. This one should (fingers crossed) enable me perform tilt turn manoeuvres and will have much safer characteristics than a motor bike or scooter. Stopping rapidly without the front wheel locking will also be another advantage of two front wheels and brakes. Brake speeds should be far superior to a scooter.
It is only 1m wide but should not fall over in turns like quad bikes try to do but is narrow enough to nip through traffic and it will be short to aid parking. All this theory may work, but it may not!
I will keep you posted. I do not intend to market it though. It may well be a handful, time will tell.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qryF2VWow8&fea...
It is only 1m wide but should not fall over in turns like quad bikes try to do but is narrow enough to nip through traffic and it will be short to aid parking. All this theory may work, but it may not!
I will keep you posted. I do not intend to market it though. It may well be a handful, time will tell.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qryF2VWow8&fea...
Stuart Mills said:
This one should (fingers crossed) enable me perform tilt turn manoeuvres...
Are the roll resistance and tilting forces provided entirely by the drivers leg muscles, then?And instead of the 'programmed processors to collate information from lateral force sensors, etc.', you'll be relying on the human brain?
Stuart Mills said:
Here is a prototype EV trike I am playing with. I love the idea of leaning in to corners like on a bike but without the risk of fall off. I have made several TTW's (tilting three wheelers) in the past to a varying level of success. One of them has a registered patent. This one should (fingers crossed) enable me perform tilt turn manoeuvres and will have much safer characteristics than a motor bike or scooter. Stopping rapidly without the front wheel locking will also be another advantage of two front wheels and brakes. Brake speeds should be far superior to a scooter.
It is only 1m wide but should not fall over in turns like quad bikes try to do but is narrow enough to nip through traffic and it will be short to aid parking. All this theory may work, but it may not!
I will keep you posted. I do not intend to market it though. It may well be a handful, time will tell.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qryF2VWow8&fea...
So, you can lean in to the corner and steer out of it at the same time? That sounds like an easy way to make the thing fall over to me. The mechanism looks over complicated compared to the simple mechanism on my 4 year olds scooter that is set up like this.It is only 1m wide but should not fall over in turns like quad bikes try to do but is narrow enough to nip through traffic and it will be short to aid parking. All this theory may work, but it may not!
I will keep you posted. I do not intend to market it though. It may well be a handful, time will tell.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qryF2VWow8&fea...
Good to see you're still at the electric trikes Stuart. I've been experimenting on a TTW too it's not easy that's for sure. I've ditched a few designs myself. One thing re your design Stuart.... How are you going to control acceleration and breaking? You've got both hands and both feet involved in steering? There's only one thing left surely?!?!?!?
http://thekneeslider.com/polaris-patent-reveals-a-...
A Polaris patent on a new Three wheeler concept.
A Polaris patent on a new Three wheeler concept.
It may help if I explained my aims here.
I will have an enclosed cockpit so I cannot put my feet down when stationary.
It will have a narrow track and will need to tilt to turn to stop it falling over.
The overall length will be short enough to park nose to kerb.
It will have a range of up to 100 miles on one charge.
It will have a brush less motor and programmable controller.
It will be powered by Lithium Yttrium cells with a bespoke battery management system.
It will have 3 wheels with the driven single wheel being to the rear.
The rider will balance the forces and input required just like riding a bike.
Gravitational and lateral forces will be balanced to ensure traction is maintained.
Centrifugal forces/gyroscopic forces will interfere if not kept in check.
Steering input will be low in banked turns due to the leaning of the motor cycle tyres.
Body mass of the rider will move to the inside of a turn to help balance when the trike tilts.
The rear wheel will track to the outside of a turn when the trike tilts to help stability.
The tilt pivot will centre just below the axle line but inclined to help self centering.
Wishbone pivots will be offset from the main pivot so that they are effectively drawn in thus changing the angle of suspension slightly when the vehicle tilts. This will try to lift the nose but the load will try to resist this and so a degree of self centering is applied.
The pedal linkage will be arranged so it pivots on the main tilt frame but not on the centre line. This will give a further mechanical advantage in addition to the pedal ratio lever advantage.
No hydraulics or linear actuators or processors to maintain balance will be introduced.
The riders feet will operate pedals to stabilise the turn and keep it up right when stationary.
A brake pedal will pivot with and follow the left pedal and the accelerator will pivot with and follow the right pedal. This will maintain the control pedal position in relation to the riders feet.
The tilt action will require forward or backward movement of the pedals where as brake and accelerator operation will require the riders heals to pivot as they do in a conventional vehicle.
The load required to operate the pedals will be for balancing only and effort will be minimal.
All wheels will tilt, the offset off the front wheels will be used to ensure equilibrium is possible.
Steering will be separate from the tilt system to enable counter steer and parking without leaning.
Mass will be kept low apart from the rider. Balanced turns will be executed without excessive movement required by the rider, hanging off one side to force a tilt will not be required!
I made a CGI animation of the design in operation. It "looks" OK but shows areas requiring attention.
Can't wait to try it out. I will report back.
I will have an enclosed cockpit so I cannot put my feet down when stationary.
It will have a narrow track and will need to tilt to turn to stop it falling over.
The overall length will be short enough to park nose to kerb.
It will have a range of up to 100 miles on one charge.
It will have a brush less motor and programmable controller.
It will be powered by Lithium Yttrium cells with a bespoke battery management system.
It will have 3 wheels with the driven single wheel being to the rear.
The rider will balance the forces and input required just like riding a bike.
Gravitational and lateral forces will be balanced to ensure traction is maintained.
Centrifugal forces/gyroscopic forces will interfere if not kept in check.
Steering input will be low in banked turns due to the leaning of the motor cycle tyres.
Body mass of the rider will move to the inside of a turn to help balance when the trike tilts.
The rear wheel will track to the outside of a turn when the trike tilts to help stability.
The tilt pivot will centre just below the axle line but inclined to help self centering.
Wishbone pivots will be offset from the main pivot so that they are effectively drawn in thus changing the angle of suspension slightly when the vehicle tilts. This will try to lift the nose but the load will try to resist this and so a degree of self centering is applied.
The pedal linkage will be arranged so it pivots on the main tilt frame but not on the centre line. This will give a further mechanical advantage in addition to the pedal ratio lever advantage.
No hydraulics or linear actuators or processors to maintain balance will be introduced.
The riders feet will operate pedals to stabilise the turn and keep it up right when stationary.
A brake pedal will pivot with and follow the left pedal and the accelerator will pivot with and follow the right pedal. This will maintain the control pedal position in relation to the riders feet.
The tilt action will require forward or backward movement of the pedals where as brake and accelerator operation will require the riders heals to pivot as they do in a conventional vehicle.
The load required to operate the pedals will be for balancing only and effort will be minimal.
All wheels will tilt, the offset off the front wheels will be used to ensure equilibrium is possible.
Steering will be separate from the tilt system to enable counter steer and parking without leaning.
Mass will be kept low apart from the rider. Balanced turns will be executed without excessive movement required by the rider, hanging off one side to force a tilt will not be required!
I made a CGI animation of the design in operation. It "looks" OK but shows areas requiring attention.
Can't wait to try it out. I will report back.
Sounds good Stuart, will love to see it when it's done as usual. One thing you may like to think about, which I'd got wrong with mine was, the inevitable potholes in British roads and there's some almighty ones round here that's for sure! Hopefully you can sort yours to handle them. I had a lot of unwanted feedback so had to have a rethink.
qdos said:
Sounds good Stuart, will love to see it when it's done as usual. One thing you may like to think about, which I'd got wrong with mine was, the inevitable potholes in British roads and there's some almighty ones round here that's for sure! Hopefully you can sort yours to handle them. I had a lot of unwanted feedback so had to have a rethink.
Did you build a leaning trike?Good point QDOS. I did come up with a design recently and then realised that the parallelogram I had introduced was going to cause issues if one wheel went over a bump as it would fire the load through to the opposite side and upset the balance.
The one I am working on now has a low main pivot to reduce road imperfection interference.
I would post the CAD drawing but it won't take a pdf on here.
Send me an email if anyone is interested and I will send pdf's basically showing how not to do it.
I also have CGI's of the design I am working on if they are of interest. I am not going to market with this so have no IP to concern myself with. I imagine it is possible to enter a turn and forget what to do to get around it, fail and sue the designer!
I don't think it is patentable either as it is similar to other inventions. It is interesting to look at patent details for tilters though. I am convinced some of them don't work.
Here is another one I designed that probably would not be great but feel free to give it a go.
It would suffer as suggested by QDOS with wheel bumps throwing it of course!
The one I am working on now has a low main pivot to reduce road imperfection interference.
I would post the CAD drawing but it won't take a pdf on here.
Send me an email if anyone is interested and I will send pdf's basically showing how not to do it.
I also have CGI's of the design I am working on if they are of interest. I am not going to market with this so have no IP to concern myself with. I imagine it is possible to enter a turn and forget what to do to get around it, fail and sue the designer!
I don't think it is patentable either as it is similar to other inventions. It is interesting to look at patent details for tilters though. I am convinced some of them don't work.
Here is another one I designed that probably would not be great but feel free to give it a go.
It would suffer as suggested by QDOS with wheel bumps throwing it of course!
Edited by Stuart Mills on Friday 15th February 10:18
Stuart Mills said:
I would post the CAD drawing but it won't take a pdf on here.
Send me an email if anyone is interested and I will send pdf's basically showing how not to do it.
I also have CGI's of the design I am working on if they are of interest. I am not going to market with this so have no IP to concern myself with.
I would be very interested in having a look if you don't mind sharing. I tried emailing through PH but im not sure if the message got through. Send me an email if anyone is interested and I will send pdf's basically showing how not to do it.
I also have CGI's of the design I am working on if they are of interest. I am not going to market with this so have no IP to concern myself with.
Stuart Mills said:
Good point QDOS. I did come up with a design recently and then realised that the parallelogram I had introduced was going to cause issues if one wheel went over a bump as it would fire the load through to the opposite side and upset the balance.
The one I am working on now has a low main pivot to reduce road imperfection interference.
I would post the CAD drawing but it won't take a pdf on here.
Send me an email if anyone is interested and I will send pdf's basically showing how not to do it.
I also have CGI's of the design I am working on if they are of interest. I am not going to market with this so have no IP to concern myself with. I imagine it is possible to enter a turn and forget what to do to get around it, fail and sue the designer!
I don't think it is patentable either as it is similar to other inventions. It is interesting to look at patent details for tilters though. I am convinced some of them don't work.
Here is another one I designed that probably would not be great but feel free to give it a go.
It would suffer as suggested by QDOS with wheel bumps throwing it of course!
Completely different car, but the Koenigsegg Agera has a third shock absorber joining the rear wheel set ups. It's called triplex, and is (I think) supposed to keep both wheels on the ground over a corner bump and reduce squat under acceleration.The one I am working on now has a low main pivot to reduce road imperfection interference.
I would post the CAD drawing but it won't take a pdf on here.
Send me an email if anyone is interested and I will send pdf's basically showing how not to do it.
I also have CGI's of the design I am working on if they are of interest. I am not going to market with this so have no IP to concern myself with. I imagine it is possible to enter a turn and forget what to do to get around it, fail and sue the designer!
I don't think it is patentable either as it is similar to other inventions. It is interesting to look at patent details for tilters though. I am convinced some of them don't work.
Here is another one I designed that probably would not be great but feel free to give it a go.
It would suffer as suggested by QDOS with wheel bumps throwing it of course!
Edited by Stuart Mills on Friday 15th February 10:18
http://jalopnik.com/5976514/its-time-you-nerded-ou...
Edited by ajprice on Monday 18th February 21:49
smash said:
After trying to ignore this thread for at least the first 20 pages I now cannot stop looking at the T Rex in USA. thanks for that!
Luckily it's 1) in the USA and 2) Ludicrously expensive or I might be in trouble....
Look at some of the pictures then...Luckily it's 1) in the USA and 2) Ludicrously expensive or I might be in trouble....
http://www.madwhips.com/t-rex/
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