Engineered rule bending
Discussion
I think you will find that in some way every single team in top level motorsport is cheating in some way, and the authorities turn a blind eye to most of it as it likely makes very little difference or they don't know to even see it.
Some are very good at it, some probably either refuse to cheat or would never do so, some are sloppy and get caught.
There are lots of instance's where a certain team, bike, or car is massively quick and nobody really knows why even though it is checked. And that will be a legal or illegal cheat in some way as most championships now at certain levels run very tightly looked after engines, bodywork etc.
Some are very good at it, some probably either refuse to cheat or would never do so, some are sloppy and get caught.
There are lots of instance's where a certain team, bike, or car is massively quick and nobody really knows why even though it is checked. And that will be a legal or illegal cheat in some way as most championships now at certain levels run very tightly looked after engines, bodywork etc.
I’ve checked through the thread because I thought I’d posted these before but apparently not.
Ones I’ve been directly involved with;
In the recent BTCC cars the intercooler core was a spec part from PWR (possibly still is). A non-current team who raced an ‘customer car’ used a company I used to work for to re-core the intercooler with one of a better quality. The spec part would arrive, the end tanks were cut off at the welds as well as the top and bottom plates which carried a logo, these were then fitted to a new core. Marginal gains maybe but it was enough for Swindon to comment about temps. The team, car and drivers are no longer in the BTCC but it was a successful car in recent years.
The same team tried various different bumper support ‘crash bar’ setups from us. Several different tube thicknesses were tried and combinations of layout and tube quantity to move the weight around, we even tried to fill the bars with various things like cement and molten lead. All of this was because a factory WTCC team got caught cheating with metal hidden in the front splitter which should have been entirely wood, the intention was to get the weight low down and far forward to help the car rotate.
In the Fiesta Championship, the team I worked for used to swap the rear beam for one from a lower spec model which was made from thinner material and made a significant difference in the wet as the car was more compliant at the rear. We also used to use a porta-power to add camber and toe to an otherwise fixed setup.
From the paddock;
A scrutineer told tales of people using grease/oil to lube the rear shoes on Fiesta XR2s to move the brake bias forwards. The rules forbid bias valves but the racers complained about the cars being unhappy under braking so they found a way round it. The scrutineers got wise and changed the checks to an inspection with the rear brakes stripped.
Ones I’ve been directly involved with;
In the recent BTCC cars the intercooler core was a spec part from PWR (possibly still is). A non-current team who raced an ‘customer car’ used a company I used to work for to re-core the intercooler with one of a better quality. The spec part would arrive, the end tanks were cut off at the welds as well as the top and bottom plates which carried a logo, these were then fitted to a new core. Marginal gains maybe but it was enough for Swindon to comment about temps. The team, car and drivers are no longer in the BTCC but it was a successful car in recent years.
The same team tried various different bumper support ‘crash bar’ setups from us. Several different tube thicknesses were tried and combinations of layout and tube quantity to move the weight around, we even tried to fill the bars with various things like cement and molten lead. All of this was because a factory WTCC team got caught cheating with metal hidden in the front splitter which should have been entirely wood, the intention was to get the weight low down and far forward to help the car rotate.
In the Fiesta Championship, the team I worked for used to swap the rear beam for one from a lower spec model which was made from thinner material and made a significant difference in the wet as the car was more compliant at the rear. We also used to use a porta-power to add camber and toe to an otherwise fixed setup.
From the paddock;
A scrutineer told tales of people using grease/oil to lube the rear shoes on Fiesta XR2s to move the brake bias forwards. The rules forbid bias valves but the racers complained about the cars being unhappy under braking so they found a way round it. The scrutineers got wise and changed the checks to an inspection with the rear brakes stripped.
Edited by Robmarriott on Wednesday 30th November 11:36
LastPoster said:
PhillipM said:
I've seen that same rule used by putting rockers in and the actuators being mounted to the original points and then remote dampers, etc...
Andrew Varey's 205?
Robmarriott said:
A scrutineer told tales of people using grease/oil to lube the rear shoes on Fiesta XR2s to move the brake bias forwards. The rules forbid bias valves but the racers complained about the cars being unhappy under braking so they found a way round it. The scrutineers got wise and changed the checks to an inspection with the rear brakes stripped.
Used to do similar with 1.6 GTi 205s where bias valves were forbidden. This would involve removal of friction material from the rear shoes, or slicing a proportion of the shoe off to reduce the braking surface.
Never inspected, however also I never felt that this was cheating, as the reg stated that friction material was free.
LukeBrown66 said:
There are lots of instance's where a certain team, bike, or car is massively quick and nobody really knows why even though it is checked. And that will be a legal or illegal cheat in some way as most championships now at certain levels run very tightly looked after engines, bodywork etc.
There are also some very good drivers and set up engineers too 
Being better than another outfit isn't cheating
wolfie1978 said:
AWRacing said:
Love these kind of stories. Does anyone know of any podcasts etc covering this sort of topic?
Dale jr sometimes have some interesting stuff on hisThe latter is absolutely superb if you grew up watching F1 in that era like me.
Zarco said:
wolfie1978 said:
AWRacing said:
Love these kind of stories. Does anyone know of any podcasts etc covering this sort of topic?
Dale jr sometimes have some interesting stuff on hisThe latter is absolutely superb if you grew up watching F1 in that era like me.
AWRacing said:
Love these kind of stories. Does anyone know of any podcasts etc covering this sort of topic?
Not a podcast, but a great article from Racecar Engineering about the infamous 1990s TWR Volvo BTCC cylinder heads: http://www.supertouringregister.com/document/4/skwdenyer said:
Not a podcast, but a great article from Racecar Engineering about the infamous 1990s TWR Volvo BTCC cylinder heads: http://www.supertouringregister.com/document/4/
Thanks for the link. I can remember that particular controversy, and thought at the time "TWR involved in some nefarious rule-interpretation subterfuge? Surely not!".Does a relaxed interpretation of the rules governing fire extinguishers and the contents thereof count for inclusion in this thread? Not TWR this time, but another example of the "ingenuity" of BTCC teams.
Robmarriott said:
A scrutineer told tales of people using grease/oil to lube the rear shoes on Fiesta XR2s to move the brake bias forwards. The rules forbid bias valves but the racers complained about the cars being unhappy under braking so they found a way round it. The scrutineers got wise and changed the checks to an inspection with the rear brakes stripped.
I can’t remember the series (may have been early Clio cup) but I was told by a guy who ran a team (and later btcc) that they would put a ball bearing in the rear brake union to achieve the same effect. I am sure there was a whole thread about this stuff on one of the forums here, it is littered with stuff.
It is actually rather sad when you read some of the series that it goes on in.
I do recall one chap who was either working for a team or knew of this and this was a fairly low level series and one guy wanted to win it so badly the car was almost rebuilt by a factory team after every meeting, engine certainly was, was on setup jigs, etc every meeting at presumably a huge cost.
All to win a tin pot trophy.
It is a bit pathetic if you ask me.
But as one who has recently competed in what are supposedly all amateur moped races, I can vouch for the fact that anytime there is a rule, some arse will find a way of bending it. it is sickening, but sadly there are people in the world who only care about one thing, winning, at any cost, ad that is why I will never compete in motorsport on a level, as the vast majority of people winning are invariable cheating in some way or another.
TYhe only thing you can do as we all did, was boo the hell out of the cretin who decided to cheat! It was hilarious
It is actually rather sad when you read some of the series that it goes on in.
I do recall one chap who was either working for a team or knew of this and this was a fairly low level series and one guy wanted to win it so badly the car was almost rebuilt by a factory team after every meeting, engine certainly was, was on setup jigs, etc every meeting at presumably a huge cost.
All to win a tin pot trophy.
It is a bit pathetic if you ask me.
But as one who has recently competed in what are supposedly all amateur moped races, I can vouch for the fact that anytime there is a rule, some arse will find a way of bending it. it is sickening, but sadly there are people in the world who only care about one thing, winning, at any cost, ad that is why I will never compete in motorsport on a level, as the vast majority of people winning are invariable cheating in some way or another.
TYhe only thing you can do as we all did, was boo the hell out of the cretin who decided to cheat! It was hilarious
Dermot O'Logical said:
skwdenyer said:
Not a podcast, but a great article from Racecar Engineering about the infamous 1990s TWR Volvo BTCC cylinder heads: http://www.supertouringregister.com/document/4/
Thanks for the link. I can remember that particular controversy, and thought at the time "TWR involved in some nefarious rule-interpretation subterfuge? Surely not!".Does a relaxed interpretation of the rules governing fire extinguishers and the contents thereof count for inclusion in this thread? Not TWR this time, but another example of the "ingenuity" of BTCC teams.
I won’t say who he is - he ended up working at a senior level in F1…
And of course, water-cooled brakes were a thing for a while…
AWRacing said:
Love these kind of stories. Does anyone know of any podcasts etc covering this sort of topic?
perhaps 'the' book is the unfair advantage by mark donohue. he took time out of his racing career in 74 to write it. its obviously outdated, but given the scene at the time, he has ample source material.Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff