RE: Monte Carlo win for Loeb

[stagman]

Having been in the forests watching the Group Bs, and my most recent events watching in awe, Sainz, McRae and Makkinen, the current lack of manufacturers and the poor coverage on Motors is enough to put anyone off, but then the commentator could put anyone off their favourite subject.

I'm now going to sell my TV, search the internet for some historic rallying events, and book a flight.

[ian mcwilliams]

I agree with those that say the WRC was at it's best with McRae, Burns etc, in the old Subaru, Mitsubishi era. Mind you, I remember the World Cup Rally of 1970! It passed right near our house in Kent and my dad took me down the road to see the cars.

Nice to see all the small cars now though, Fiesta's, Mini's DS3's etc. They do look good, though how they sound is hard to really tell.

Let's hope the season is a good one.

[joe58]

Stew2000 said:

Crow555 said:

Many seem to forget the Leob/Gronholm battles of the mid-2000's.

All I remember of it was Gronholm swearing at the 307

Rightly so.

[dandarez]

havard01 said:

Generic repsonse about how good Rallying used to be in the old days and how much shorter the stages are.

You could buy petrol for 60p a litre and a Mars bar for 25p too, things change. Get over it.

I enjoyed what I saw of Rally Monte Carlo.

Which 'old days'?
When I started driving the 'old' Mini had won the Monte (several times), you could buy petrol for 65d a GALLON! (ie about 6.5p litre), a Mars was 6d (about 2p), we'd won the World Cup (crowd was just short of 100,000), 95 per cent of all cars sold in Britain were MADE in Britain, Man was soon to land on the Moon, I could go on...

Progress, eh?

[vtgts300kw]

Why the hell do these threads always turn into the sport isn't as good as it once was/ Loeb must be crap because he has no real competition, crap?

It's nauseating. Can't we just have a decent discussion on the WRC? If you don't like the state of the championship, don't get involved in the discussion, simples.


Loeb missed winning the championship in his first full season by 1 point to Solberg in '03. Beating Sainz, McRae et al in the process. He gave an interview to the RedBull magazine in the latest issue saying this would likely be his last season in the WRC ( he has an option for next year ) and that he thought about changing teams ( to VW I think? ) but decided to stick with Citreon, as that's who gave him his start, gave him his wins etc.

[ppopsie]

I used to be a great rally fan - Paddy Hopkirk and 33EJB at the London Paladium, watching the TV coverage - remember the daily reports from rally HQ Cheltenham for the RAC? I have trudged through the rain up into the Welsh mountains and crawled out of bed in the middle of the night to get to the stages. But frankly now I just can't be bothered. The fun and excitement have gone. I guess it is all down to money with so few works teams competing and Mr Loeb romping away every time. Good luck to him, but sadly bad luck for the sport.

[twobanks]

Avoiding the "Fings ain't wot they used to be" debate (and they're not), the organisers should have breathed a sigh of dismay, not relief. Loeb, good as he is, is going to do for WRC in the same way that Schuey did for F1, if he hasn't already.

[Killer2005]

Zajda said:

Munich said:

Someone rallied a Alfa Romeo 147....!

Ah, Martin Rada, quite a good result from him - few times I saw him on our local rallies and it's a very slow car indeed. I never understood why he drives with it when commonly used Civic's VTI are quicker even if they are one class below. Must have strong soft spot for it i suppose

Its not even the Mk2 147

[rwindmill]

Baryonyx said:

It's clear to see you missed the thread on Loeb recently where this was discussed in great detail and the conclusion was reached that he is undoubtedly the greatest ever, and still faces stiff competition from Ford and other Citroen drivers. You may prefer the firey Italian styling of Miki Biasion, you may support the recklessly brilliant Colin McRae, but there isn't much of a case for describing Loeb as anything other than the greatest of all time.

Sounds like the rally is off to a good start this year. I just hope the sport can get back on it's feet.

I did miss that thread. What was the basis of the analysis? If it was purely numerical i.e. championship wins, rally wins, clinical approach to every rally then i would fully agree that Loeb is the greatest rally driver out there, and is unlikely to be beaten for some time.
But!
If the analysis was based on driving style, spectator entertainment, level of competion faced (how many other good drivers there are in the WRC at the same time, how many other good cars there are in the WRC at the same time), adaptability to various cars, then i dont think (and this is just personal) that he would fair so well.

[rwindmill]

vtgts300kw said:

Why the hell do these threads always turn into the sport isn't as good as it once was/ Loeb must be crap because he has no real competition, crap?

It's nauseating. Can't we just have a decent discussion on the WRC? If you don't like the state of the championship, don't get involved in the discussion, simples.


Loeb missed winning the championship in his first full season by 1 point to Solberg in '03. Beating Sainz, McRae et al in the process. He gave an interview to the RedBull magazine in the latest issue saying this would likely be his last season in the WRC ( he has an option for next year ) and that he thought about changing teams ( to VW I think? ) but decided to stick with Citreon, as that's who gave him his start, gave him his wins etc.

What is there to discuss?
Loeb wins................again
Citroen wins.............again
No one else can get within 2 minutes of Loeb....................again

The above has been the basis of WRC events for the past 8 years, give or take a few specialist events. Discussion stems from variety, and even the most ardent WRC fan would have to admit that there is little variety in the championship at the moment.
This is why the threads keep harking back to the good ol days

[Knightmorph]

Loeb is fighting the same issues Roger Federer, Tiger Woods, Michael Schumacher and all sports personalities that become too dominant in a sport have....... generally people after a while want to see them lose. Its never fun seeing the same result year after year...motorsport is at its best when you have 3-4 world champions on a grid and everyone has a fair chance of winning with fairly equal machinery....once something becomes too onesided everyone loses interest and its bad for the sport. Rallye is not even close to the popularity it had in the 1970's, 80's, and 90's. It gets less coverage in the media and as a result manufacturers pull out, its a shame because you need immense talent to drive those beasts at 100mph down a narrown dirt track....perhaps even more skill than formula 1.

[EDLT]

vtgts300kw said:

Why the hell do these threads always turn into the sport isn't as good as it once was/ Loeb must be crap because he has no real competition, crap?

It's nauseating. Can't we just have a decent discussion on the WRC? If you don't like the state of the championship, don't get involved in the discussion, simples.


Loeb missed winning the championship in his first full season by 1 point to Solberg in '03. Beating Sainz, McRae et al in the process. He gave an interview to the RedBull magazine in the latest issue saying this would likely be his last season in the WRC ( he has an option for next year ) and that he thought about changing teams ( to VW I think? ) but decided to stick with Citreon, as that's who gave him his start, gave him his wins etc.

You get the same old st in BTCC threads too, the general opinion on PH is if it isn't F1 then it is st.

[The Excession]

I think that people are forgetting that most of the top flight drivers are with new tams and in new machinery this year. Given that I think the results for Sordo, Solberg and Hirvonen are very impressive. If Latvala can keep it on the road I think we'll see some good fights this year.

[zeb]

crossle said:

Bobble Hat. Scotch Egg. Anorak. Pitch black forest stage. Hypothermia. Bliss.

Le chamois at the top of the col de turrini for me for both day and night stages

Three course meal, mulled wine, wrc on xbox to play with whilst waiting and the owners dvd collection of previous rallies, minibus back down to monte carlo in the evening....bliss

[rwindmill]

EDLT said:

vtgts300kw said:

Why the hell do these threads always turn into the sport isn't as good as it once was/ Loeb must be crap because he has no real competition, crap?

It's nauseating. Can't we just have a decent discussion on the WRC? If you don't like the state of the championship, don't get involved in the discussion, simples.


Loeb missed winning the championship in his first full season by 1 point to Solberg in '03. Beating Sainz, McRae et al in the process. He gave an interview to the RedBull magazine in the latest issue saying this would likely be his last season in the WRC ( he has an option for next year ) and that he thought about changing teams ( to VW I think? ) but decided to stick with Citreon, as that's who gave him his start, gave him his wins etc.

You get the same old st in BTCC threads too, the general opinion on PH is if it isn't F1 then it is st.

I disagree. I have seen plenty of threads where F1 is derided just as much as BTCC and rallying. As Knightmorph says, once a sport becomes dominated by one person or team, it becomes dull. Look at F1 during the Schumacher era, dull. And F1 is in danger of going the same way again this year. If Vettel runs away with the championship again (and if Sky's coverage isnt up to scratch) then people will start turning off again.

[EDLT]

rwindmill said:

EDLT said:

vtgts300kw said:

Why the hell do these threads always turn into the sport isn't as good as it once was/ Loeb must be crap because he has no real competition, crap?

It's nauseating. Can't we just have a decent discussion on the WRC? If you don't like the state of the championship, don't get involved in the discussion, simples.


Loeb missed winning the championship in his first full season by 1 point to Solberg in '03. Beating Sainz, McRae et al in the process. He gave an interview to the RedBull magazine in the latest issue saying this would likely be his last season in the WRC ( he has an option for next year ) and that he thought about changing teams ( to VW I think? ) but decided to stick with Citreon, as that's who gave him his start, gave him his wins etc.

You get the same old st in BTCC threads too, the general opinion on PH is if it isn't F1 then it is st.

I disagree. I have seen plenty of threads where F1 is derided just as much as BTCC and rallying. As Knightmorph says, once a sport becomes dominated by one person or team, it becomes dull. Look at F1 during the Schumacher era, dull. And F1 is in danger of going the same way again this year. If Vettel runs away with the championship again (and if Sky's coverage isnt up to scratch) then people will start turning off again.

I started a thread asking people if they would keep watching now Vettel has won, the overwhelming answer was yes, because they were the real fans. But in WRC threads you get large numbers of people proudly saying they don't watch it because they know who is going to win and at times these people outnumber those who actually watch rallying. Hypocrisy is fun.

[dave stew]

Jag-D said:

I used to be a massive fan and enthusiast for rallying, but for me it all went downhill when McRae, Burns, Kankunnen, Sainz et al all retired.

Loeb is a fantastic driver, but it's all just a bit boring now

Exactly my sentiments.

[weyland yutani]

I watched Day 1 on Motors/EuroSport, fell asleep during Day 2, forgot all about Day 3 and just couldn't be arsed watching the rest.

I've followed the WRC for years but I'm rapidly losing interest. Never seen such active threads on WRC here on PH though.

[The Excession]

dave stew said:

Jag-D said:

I used to be a massive fan and enthusiast for rallying, but for me it all went downhill when McRae, Burns, Kankunnen, Sainz et al all retired.

Loeb is a fantastic driver, but it's all just a bit boring now

Exactly my sentiments.

This surely could be described as 'old man's syndrome'. The rallying this week at Monte has been utterly superb.

It's the first round of the championship, most of the top drivers in new cars with different teams.

I could choose to sit in the same boat as

Jag-D said:

I used to be a massive fan and enthusiast for rallying, but for me it all went downhill when McRae, Burns, Kankunnen, Sainz et al all retired.

Jeebus, are you the kind of person that complains Alex Higgins (and his ilk/era) aren't playing snooker any more and the new lads aren't skulling 10 pints of Heineken every session?

These epic drivers are gone now, but when my little 5 year old asks me to make sure I record the rallying so he can see Petter drive his Subaru, and I patiently point out that he's driving a Ford this year and he says but `Micca Hervnun` drives a Ford' and I say 'He did, but this year Hirvonen is driving with Citroen' and he says 'You mean like Sabastian Loeb - Loeb wins everything doesn't he?' I don't get angry, I don't get upset, we sit together and watch what ever we can see on the TV and make the most of it.

I try to point out to him that some of the other drives way further down the list are doing really well too and we do our best to take an interest in the new drivers.

If we want to watch "McRae, Burns, Kankunnen, Sainz et al" then we get out the videos or look on you tube.

I'm really struggling to undersatnd why people are still bhing about 'Well it's not group B' - I konw that. We all know that. I've read and heard it a hundred times. It never will be group B again. But it still is rallying (in it's current form), and we as motor sport fans should make the best effort to make it as interesting as possible to the young kids growing up with it.

If you don't like it, fine, ps off and go complain about something that might actually make a difference to your life. I could suggest starting with writing a strongly worded email to your MP pointing out how 'powerfully built' you are.

Edited by The Excession on Tuesday 24th January 16:14

[havard01]

Thanks for the positive comments about the state of the WRC guys, I'm really looking forward to Rally Sweden now......