RE: Nissan DeltaWing: the full story
Discussion
david_b said:
I was responding specifically to a post that said It ran at the very bottom end of the LMP2 field, quicker only than GT cars.. Hence posting the actual times for the cars it was being compared against...
There are 20 LMP2 carsDelta wings fastest time was 16 seconds off the fastest in that class and only quicker than 3 of them
So that is the bottom of the LMP 2 field, no matter how you dress it up
Scuffers said:
careful.....
your bordering on getting personal again....
Only bordering?your bordering on getting personal again....
What do you think of the times when the ACO allowed turbine cars to run in the 1960s?
They are well known for allowing unusual cars to run - often outside of the normal regulations they themselves had set up.
Le Mans is normally a self contained "one off" type event and it is up to the event organisers to decide how their own rules are interpreted and if they can be waived for special but interesting cars. I think it is an enlightened approach and a good example of why running a race outside of a championship with a far more rigid set of rules can make motor racing interesting.
freedman said:
david_b said:
I was responding specifically to a post that said It ran at the very bottom end of the LMP2 field, quicker only than GT cars.. Hence posting the actual times for the cars it was being compared against...
There are 20 LMP2 carsDelta wings fastest time was 16 seconds off the fastest in that class and only quicker than 3 of them
So that is the bottom of the LMP 2 field, no matter how you dress it up
The quickest race lap in LMP2 has been 3.38. The Deltawing did 3.45. In qualifying, the LMP2 pole time was also 3.38. The Deltawing did 3.42. Where are you getting a best LMP2 time of 3.29? That's mid-LMP1 qualifying pace.
david_b said:
But it wasn't "quicker only than GT cars". Apart from the fact it was given a target time of 3.45 by the ACO, which is what it was comfortably doing..
Its fastest lap would have been 18th fastest out of 21 in LMP2 How much further down the field do you want it to be before you accept it was slow comppared to the majority of LMP2 cars?freedman said:
Its fastest lap would have been 18th fastest out of 21 in LMP2 How much further down the field do you want it to be before you accept it was slow comppared to the majority of LMP2 cars?
But it was going to be doing half the amount of pitstops of an LMP2 car...therefore saving a few minutes over the course of the race...which would have put it...It was doing what it was supposed to do.
I don't have an issue with the garage 56 scheme, I just have an issue with a fairly w
ky concept that was hastily changed to a two seater design etc.freedman said:
Its fastest lap would have been 18th fastest out of 21 in LMP2 How much further down the field do you want it to be before you accept it was slow comppared to the majority of LMP2 cars?
Of course I accept that it was only faster than three LMP2 cars, the timesheets show that which is all I've been posting. Quite apart from the fact that it's irrelevant as it was aiming to meet a target time set by the ACO, which it did. And additionally, absolute laptimes are largely irrelevant at Le Mans, as I suggested when pointing out that the winning LMP2 car was actually quite a long way (3 seconds) off the pace of the fastest car in that class. However, it clearly is not the case that it was only faster than the GT cars, and it was also not 16 seconds off the pace of the best LMP2 car...
Eric Mc said:
If the narrow track was at the back á la pre-war Morgan would it work better?
would you drive the front or rear wheels?You wouldn't get two wide rear wheels in the space, so you'd be left with two mnarrow ones orone wide one.
aerodnamically it reminds me of the Tyrrell P34. low drag front end whilst ignoring the massive rear wheels/tyres.
The Williams FW07D had far more relevance....
Munter said:
freedman said:
So retired quite early, through no fault of its own, after being opunted off by Nakajaima
However, what was the point?
It ran at the very bottom end of the LMP2 field, quicker only than GT cars.
It doesnt comply with any existing Sportscar regulations, and bar the odd wheelbase/axle configurstion there isnt any particular;ly innovative technolgy involved
It was an experiment. To find out if you could do LeMans competitively with significantly less fuel and tyre use.However, what was the point?
It ran at the very bottom end of the LMP2 field, quicker only than GT cars.
It doesnt comply with any existing Sportscar regulations, and bar the odd wheelbase/axle configurstion there isnt any particular;ly innovative technolgy involved
If it had done better we may have seen a change in the regulations.
I think the problem that took it out means it'll never catch on. If you lose a corner on a standard car it still has 3 points of contact to allow you to limp home. The deltawing lost a rear corner and it had nothing to stop the whole side of the car dragging on the floor. 2 points of contact are not enough. That just makes it too fragile for LeMans.
The Delta can't really be compared to any of the other classes because it's power and weight in particular don't fit any of the other catagories.
See see if it really is as ground breaking as hypothocated you need a racing class for cars with around 300bhp and 500kg. Then you could see if the design makes a difference.
See see if it really is as ground breaking as hypothocated you need a racing class for cars with around 300bhp and 500kg. Then you could see if the design makes a difference.
The comparisons with LMP2 etc are ridiculous - indeed any comparisons are redundant. The Delta was given race number 0 and Garage 54 reserved for an entrant displaying new technology or innovation - it was in a class of 1, and can't be compared with anything running.
The Delta was given a target time to run to - at the head of the GT field; and as previously mentioned, this target was hit comfortably, and indeed the car ran up amongst the LMP2 cars. Well done to the team for the innovation show, and performance produced.
Will it run again, who knows - but for sure some technology from the car will be used somehwere else in the motorsport world - and that can only be good.
The Delta was given a target time to run to - at the head of the GT field; and as previously mentioned, this target was hit comfortably, and indeed the car ran up amongst the LMP2 cars. Well done to the team for the innovation show, and performance produced.
Will it run again, who knows - but for sure some technology from the car will be used somehwere else in the motorsport world - and that can only be good.
MMC Andy said:
The comparisons with LMP2 etc are ridiculous - indeed any comparisons are redundant. The Delta was given race number 0 and Garage 54 reserved for an entrant displaying new technology or innovation - it was in a class of 1, and can't be compared with anything running.
The Delta was given a target time to run to - at the head of the GT field; and as previously mentioned, this target was hit comfortably, and indeed the car ran up amongst the LMP2 cars. Well done to the team for the innovation show, and performance produced.
Will it run again, who knows - but for sure some technology from the car will be used somehwere else in the motorsport world - and that can only be good.
Top Post. I haven't really follwoed this project or the race but that explains a lot.The Delta was given a target time to run to - at the head of the GT field; and as previously mentioned, this target was hit comfortably, and indeed the car ran up amongst the LMP2 cars. Well done to the team for the innovation show, and performance produced.
Will it run again, who knows - but for sure some technology from the car will be used somehwere else in the motorsport world - and that can only be good.
MMC Andy said:
The comparisons with LMP2 etc are ridiculous - indeed any comparisons are redundant. The Delta was given race number 0 and Garage 54 reserved for an entrant displaying new technology or innovation - it was in a class of 1, and can't be compared with anything running.
The Delta was given a target time to run to - at the head of the GT field; and as previously mentioned, this target was hit comfortably, and indeed the car ran up amongst the LMP2 cars. Well done to the team for the innovation show, and performance produced.
Will it run again, who knows - but for sure some technology from the car will be used somehwere else in the motorsport world - and that can only be good.
Great post. The Delta was given a target time to run to - at the head of the GT field; and as previously mentioned, this target was hit comfortably, and indeed the car ran up amongst the LMP2 cars. Well done to the team for the innovation show, and performance produced.
Will it run again, who knows - but for sure some technology from the car will be used somehwere else in the motorsport world - and that can only be good.
Some of this thread is "internet expert" content at it's finest
MMC Andy said:
The comparisons with LMP2 etc are ridiculous - indeed any comparisons are redundant. The Delta was given race number 0 and Garage 54 reserved for an entrant displaying new technology or innovation - it was in a class of 1, and can't be compared with anything running.
The Delta was given a target time to run to - at the head of the GT field; and as previously mentioned, this target was hit comfortably, and indeed the car ran up amongst the LMP2 cars. Well done to the team for the innovation show, and performance produced.
Will it run again, who knows - but for sure some technology from the car will be used somehwere else in the motorsport world - and that can only be good.
On RadioLeMans they were saying that maybe there needs to be a ‘new class’ of racing; an ultra light weight car, an efficient small turbo engine..almost a voitturette class car. I don’t disagree – Sportscars racing is pretty good at looking at new ways of racing/technology, etc The Delta was given a target time to run to - at the head of the GT field; and as previously mentioned, this target was hit comfortably, and indeed the car ran up amongst the LMP2 cars. Well done to the team for the innovation show, and performance produced.
Will it run again, who knows - but for sure some technology from the car will be used somehwere else in the motorsport world - and that can only be good.
ArnageWRC said:
On RadioLeMans they were saying that maybe there needs to be a ‘new class’ of racing; an ultra light weight car, an efficient small turbo engine..almost a voitturette class car. I don’t disagree – Sportscars racing is pretty good at looking at new ways of racing/technology, etc
Indeed - harks back to the cars specifically specifically designed and built to win the 'index of performance'.What I think the Delta Wing project has also managed to highlight is that you can balance performance and efficiency *safely* - the car was quick enough not to cause any safety issues and the construction wasn't compromised in the name of performance.
Slightly amazed at some of the negative comments wrt the Deltawing, thought this was Pistonheads not head-in-the-sand NIMBY heads?
Firstly I can't believe the rude punt that put them out wasn't punished officially (or if it wasn't I havent heard about it) perhaps from another angle it isn't so blatant but the rear on shot was so sever even a British Touring Car driver would have winced!
Secondly, all this moaning about lap time vs LMP2 is totally stupid was it wasn't in that class, the only comparison you could have drawn was where it finished (if it had finished) against LMP2 given its lack of weight and power.
I can't think of a race series that uses 300bhp/500kg cars (its about half way between F3 and F2 if memory serves) but given that this was its first race I thought the pace was good.
I didn't see much footage of the Deltawing in the LM coverage prior to the poor driver fighting to get it moving again but the exterior shots I did see it didn't look like it was struggling (as has been suggested) in the corners- anyone got a link to some onboard stuff? (I've seen the testing footage and it cornered aright on a flat airfield track)
Personally I think its a shame we don't have more series where totally different cars can race head to head, I don't know what future holds for the Deltawing but it certainly doesn#t deserve the bad press some of you are giving it IMO.
Firstly I can't believe the rude punt that put them out wasn't punished officially (or if it wasn't I havent heard about it) perhaps from another angle it isn't so blatant but the rear on shot was so sever even a British Touring Car driver would have winced!
Secondly, all this moaning about lap time vs LMP2 is totally stupid was it wasn't in that class, the only comparison you could have drawn was where it finished (if it had finished) against LMP2 given its lack of weight and power.
I can't think of a race series that uses 300bhp/500kg cars (its about half way between F3 and F2 if memory serves) but given that this was its first race I thought the pace was good.
I didn't see much footage of the Deltawing in the LM coverage prior to the poor driver fighting to get it moving again but the exterior shots I did see it didn't look like it was struggling (as has been suggested) in the corners- anyone got a link to some onboard stuff? (I've seen the testing footage and it cornered aright on a flat airfield track)
Personally I think its a shame we don't have more series where totally different cars can race head to head, I don't know what future holds for the Deltawing but it certainly doesn#t deserve the bad press some of you are giving it IMO.
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