The Official Chinese GP Thread 2012***SPOILERS***
Discussion
What has emerged so far this season is that ALL or at least most of the cars are in with a good chance of success. Previously, it appeared to be all about the select few: Ferrari, McLaren and Red Bull. Prior to that, it was all about Ferrari with maybe one or two others in with a chance. Not now, some of the newer kids on the block are getting more competitive. As well as Mercedes, Sauber and Lotus are shaping up with Williams not that far behind. Force India and the others can improve.
This has provided the excellent spectacle which we saw yesterday.
Some have suggested that the poorer showing of Ferrari recently is because they have a dog of a car. I do not see it that way at all. One thing is certain, they are no longer "Top Dog" on the grid and the racing is all the better for that.
Get used to it.... Meet the new Bosses, NOT the same as the old bosses. Rejoice and praise be.
..
This has provided the excellent spectacle which we saw yesterday.
Some have suggested that the poorer showing of Ferrari recently is because they have a dog of a car. I do not see it that way at all. One thing is certain, they are no longer "Top Dog" on the grid and the racing is all the better for that.
Get used to it.... Meet the new Bosses, NOT the same as the old bosses. Rejoice and praise be.
..
MGJohn said:
What has emerged so far this season is that ALL or at least most of the cars are in with a good chance of success. Previously, it appeared to be all about the select few: Ferrari, McLaren and Red Bull. Prior to that, it was all about Ferrari with maybe one or two others in with a chance. Not now, some of the newer kids on the block are getting more competitive. As well as Mercedes, Sauber and Lotus are shaping up with Williams not that far behind. Force India and the others can improve.
This has provided the excellent spectacle which we saw yesterday.
Some have suggested that the poorer showing of Ferrari recently is because they have a dog of a car. I do not see it that way at all. One thing is certain, they are no longer "Top Dog" on the grid and the racing is all the better for that.
Get used to it.... Meet the new Bosses, NOT the same as the old bosses. Rejoice and praise be.
..
+1 Unpredictable, and so much enjoyment.This has provided the excellent spectacle which we saw yesterday.
Some have suggested that the poorer showing of Ferrari recently is because they have a dog of a car. I do not see it that way at all. One thing is certain, they are no longer "Top Dog" on the grid and the racing is all the better for that.
Get used to it.... Meet the new Bosses, NOT the same as the old bosses. Rejoice and praise be.
..
pits said:
Awesome race, but christ alive Vettel at the end of the race his little speech, came across like a spoilt little brat.
I did not see it that way. He was obviously disappointed and was simply honest and unguarded in his responses. Other drivers would have been more shrewed and played their cards much closer to their chests. Right now, Vettel is having a sharp reality check. Bit like Hamilton after early career successes which appeared all too easy. He will adjust and I suspect he will take rather less time to make those adjustment checks and will be a more complete driver as a result. We shall see.
Roll on next weekend. Thing is, will the racing be of the same entertainment standard? Lets hope so.
MGJohn said:
Get used to it.... Meet the new Bosses, NOT the same as the old bosses. Rejoice and praise be...
I was thinking about this a few days ago and pondering the question "Do we currently have the best drivers in F1 history?". That is, is the strength and depth of the current field unprecedented?While it's utterly impossible to compare even single drivers of different generations in any meaningful way to see how they would have performed against each other we can compare the whole field at any time and see what level of certainty we would have of any single package winning more often than not.
I think we still see a top, middle and bottom tier of teams but the top tier contains more of the teams than ever before. It will de interesting to see the points spread at the end of the season compared to previous ones.
It certainly makes for a promising season and I hope no-one gains too much advantage over the season.
One interesting question: can McLaren make a serious WDC bid with two equal drivers or, will their taking points from each other mean someone else gets a chance?
IainT said:
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One interesting question: can McLaren make a serious WDC bid with two equal drivers or, will their taking points from each other mean someone else gets a chance?
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That is a problem which also faces other teams like Red Bull and Mercedes to name but two. As the season develops certain decisions will have to be taken for the benefit of the team, not just the drivers who are part of, not THE team.One interesting question: can McLaren make a serious WDC bid with two equal drivers or, will their taking points from each other mean someone else gets a chance?
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I strongly suspect that the current F1 scene has the best spread of closely talented drivers and manufacturers since day one in F1.
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IainT said:
I was thinking about this a few days ago and pondering the question "Do we currently have the best drivers in F1 history?". That is, is the strength and depth of the current field unprecedented?
While it's utterly impossible to compare even single drivers of different generations in any meaningful way to see how they would have performed against each other we can compare the whole field at any time and see what level of certainty we would have of any single package winning more often than not.
I think we still see a top, middle and bottom tier of teams but the top tier contains more of the teams than ever before. It will de interesting to see the points spread at the end of the season compared to previous ones.
It certainly makes for a promising season and I hope no-one gains too much advantage over the season.
One interesting question: can McLaren make a serious WDC bid with two equal drivers or, will their taking points from each other mean someone else gets a chance?
Far too much tinkering with the sport now though. It's like socialism for Motorsport, let everyone have a point. The tyre situation is devalueing the sport and destroying tha natural hierarchy within it, basically it's a lottery. Some drivers are by natural talent faster than others but aren't being able to show that, The closing together of the midfield grid to the top teams looks suspiciously manufactured tbh. While it's utterly impossible to compare even single drivers of different generations in any meaningful way to see how they would have performed against each other we can compare the whole field at any time and see what level of certainty we would have of any single package winning more often than not.
I think we still see a top, middle and bottom tier of teams but the top tier contains more of the teams than ever before. It will de interesting to see the points spread at the end of the season compared to previous ones.
It certainly makes for a promising season and I hope no-one gains too much advantage over the season.
One interesting question: can McLaren make a serious WDC bid with two equal drivers or, will their taking points from each other mean someone else gets a chance?
ajprice said:
It is really open this year, on the right day any of Mclaren, Red Bull, Alonso, Mercedes, Lotus or Sauber could win a race. Its been 3 winners from 3 races already.
*(Do you see what I did there?
)
Yes,you stated 'Alonso' instead of Ferrari,well let's face it,Massa doesn't exactly contribute,does he? *(Do you see what I did there?
)markcoznottz said:
Far too much tinkering with the sport now though. It's like socialism for Motorsport, let everyone have a point. The tyre situation is devalueing the sport and destroying tha natural hierarchy within it, basically it's a lottery. Some drivers are by natural talent faster than others but aren't being able to show that, The closing together of the midfield grid to the top teams looks suspiciously manufactured tbh.
Interesting point. However if you go back to when there were multiple tyre providers (I forget the max number in a season) it was even more complex. e.g. 1977 - Bridgestone, Michelin, Dunlop and Goodyear?At least with the current model the main issue is the teams understanding of the tyre compound and how to maximise it. It removes some of the variables. The racing is closer - we aren't seeing the back teams being lapped 5+ times like we used to...
MGJohn said:
Yes his run of bad luck continues this season ~ none of it self inflicted. He took today's bad luck in good style although no doubt his real feelings may have been rather stronger and if so, he did not let on at all.
Would have been interesting to see how his race would have shaped up as he used some restraint in those dozen or so first laps. May even have closed in on his team mate.
Sadly, fate decreed we shall never know. I suspect it would have been a Mercedes 1-2.
.
Didn't Ferrari use then abandon a light system for their pitstops after a series of cockups in 08 or 09? FIA should rule that the lollypop man is required to release a car. Even if its a second slower it would be the same for everyone.Would have been interesting to see how his race would have shaped up as he used some restraint in those dozen or so first laps. May even have closed in on his team mate.
Sadly, fate decreed we shall never know. I suspect it would have been a Mercedes 1-2.
.
MGJohn said:
pits said:
Awesome race, but christ alive Vettel at the end of the race his little speech, came across like a spoilt little brat.
I did not see it that way. He was obviously disappointed and was simply honest and unguarded in his responses. Other drivers would have been more shrewed and played their cards much closer to their chests. Right now, Vettel is having a sharp reality check. Bit like Hamilton after early career successes which appeared all too easy. He will adjust and I suspect he will take rather less time to make those adjustment checks and will be a more complete driver as a result. We shall see.
Roll on next weekend. Thing is, will the racing be of the same entertainment standard? Lets hope so.
I'm getting to like the bloke.
Marcia said:
ajprice said:
It is really open this year, on the right day any of Mclaren, Red Bull, Alonso, Mercedes, Lotus or Sauber could win a race. Its been 3 winners from 3 races already.
*(Do you see what I did there? )
Yes,you stated 'Alonso' instead of Ferrari,well let's face it,Massa doesn't exactly contribute,does he? *(Do you see what I did there?
)Alonso is part of the team not THE team. I think he's had his chance of bringing home the goods for the Italian outfit and he and Massa will struggle much more from now on.
Team Ferrari clearly do not see things that way with the Brasilian. They still have fresh in their memory his more than several 'assists' which helped KR to his single WDC for Ferrari. Plus the close run thing when Massa looked like being WDC until that last lap incident which provided Hamilton with his single WDC.
No doubt with the "faster than you" still fresh in their minds, I strongly suspect the team still concentrate on the Spaniard rather than the Brasilian. However, it remains to be seen if that produces another WDC with their current set-up. Unlike previously, there are a few more competent and improving new kids on the F1 block and they are quite good. It will be much harder for anyone to succeed from now on. Don't take my word for it, ask Vettel, Hamilton ..... and Alonso.
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weyland yutani said:
MGJohn said:
Yes his run of bad luck continues this season ~ none of it self inflicted. He took today's bad luck in good style although no doubt his real feelings may have been rather stronger and if so, he did not let on at all.
Would have been interesting to see how his race would have shaped up as he used some restraint in those dozen or so first laps. May even have closed in on his team mate.
Sadly, fate decreed we shall never know. I suspect it would have been a Mercedes 1-2.
.
Didn't Ferrari use then abandon a light system for their pitstops after a series of cockups in 08 or 09? FIA should rule that the lollypop man is required to release a car. Even if its a second slower it would be the same for everyone.Would have been interesting to see how his race would have shaped up as he used some restraint in those dozen or so first laps. May even have closed in on his team mate.
Sadly, fate decreed we shall never know. I suspect it would have been a Mercedes 1-2.
.
I watched BBC + BBC Forum live and I've now watched Sky (+ PH Forum) delayed and it's a great way to view the GP.
What a fantastic race.
Re MSC pit stop. I heard that the human factor has been taken out of the lollipop (now lights) system.
IMO. When the wheelman took the U/S wheel gun off the wheel, the jackman dropped the car. If both jacks are on the ground the light goes green. The error was not the wheelman, but the jackman. He shouldn't have dropped the car.
What a fantastic race.
Re MSC pit stop. I heard that the human factor has been taken out of the lollipop (now lights) system.
IMO. When the wheelman took the U/S wheel gun off the wheel, the jackman dropped the car. If both jacks are on the ground the light goes green. The error was not the wheelman, but the jackman. He shouldn't have dropped the car.
heebeegeetee said:
Didn't I hear Ross Brawn say something about individual wheel nuts sending a signal ( I must admit I wasn't listening fully as he said it) and that an error signal had produced a green light?
He probably said "The nut with the jack incorrectly gave the green light".Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff