The Official Chinese GP Thread 2012***SPOILERS***
Discussion
nice audi driver said:
It's not about adding to the sport, but making sure the teams do everything in their power to stick to the required intervals for engine/gbox changes. Give F1 engineers an inch and they'll take several miles.
fair enough, but should drivers be penalised for poor mechanical reliability? perhaps point deductions for constructors would be a bit better.Altrezia said:
Why does a driver get penalised for the team's cockup?
Why does a manufactured grid slot make for better viewing or a better championship?
If you don't have that then it's a spec series...Why does a manufactured grid slot make for better viewing or a better championship?
The HRT is s
t. Why should the driver be penalised for that?The better the car the further up the grid it'll be. Lewis's car was not as good as those without a broken box.
Altrezia said:
Why does it matter if they use a gearbox every race?
Why does a driver get penalised for the team's cockup?
Why does a manufactured grid slot make for better viewing or a better championship?
1). Cost effectiveness and trying to stem the perceived wastefulness of F1. May not appeal to you, but that is the way the sport has decided to go. Why does a driver get penalised for the team's cockup?
Why does a manufactured grid slot make for better viewing or a better championship?
2). The driver is a member of the team - he does not stand apart. Win together, lose together. If they get to benefit from a good car that performs well (eg Seb and the RB7) why should they not suffer the downsides of unreliability.
3). It contirbutes to the championship as the aim is for performance and durability. As for the better viewing, it falls into the serious sport v sideshow arguement. If you want a spectacular race you may as well get the sprinklers out.
davepoth said:
The idea with the gearbox penalty is that the gearboxes have to be made sturdy - which supposedly equates with cheap. Certainly that's the reasoning behind the similar rules for engines.
I read somewhere that the damage only happened in the last 48 hours. Did someone drop it? I'm sure any investigative procedures would have been undertaken ages ago by McLaren, not left until a couple of days ago.andygo said:
davepoth said:
The idea with the gearbox penalty is that the gearboxes have to be made sturdy - which supposedly equates with cheap. Certainly that's the reasoning behind the similar rules for engines.
I read somewhere that the damage only happened in the last 48 hours. Did someone drop it? I'm sure any investigative procedures would have been undertaken ages ago by McLaren, not left until a couple of days ago.How many gearboxes are the drivers allocated for a season,btw?
nice audi driver said:
Altrezia said:
Some of these rules are so annoying. I don't see what they add to the sport - so far we've seen fans of Kimi robbed of a potential podium and race up at the front, and now fans of Hamilton the same.
It's not about adding to the sport, but making sure the teams do everything in their power to stick to the required intervals for engine/gbox changes. Give F1 engineers an inch and they'll take several miles.Marcia said:
I don't understand why Lewis has been given a penalty for this,it's not like he's gone over the allocated number of gearboxes,is it?Thought penalties were only handed out if a driver uses more than allowed?
How many gearboxes are the drivers allocated for a season,btw?
Each gearbox must last five consecutive races.How many gearboxes are the drivers allocated for a season,btw?
F1 regulations said:
28.6 For the purposes of this Article only, an Event will be deemed to comprise P3, the qualifying practice session and the race.
a) Each driver may use no more than one gearbox for five consecutive Events in which his team competes. Should a driver use a replacement gearbox he will drop five places on the starting grid at that Event and an additional five places each time a further gearbox is used. Any replacement gearbox must be fitted with the same gear ratios that were declared under d) below and will only be required to complete the remainder of the Event in question. Any change to the gear ratios declared under d) below will incur a further five grid place penalty. In either case a new five race sequence may start at the following Event.
Unless the driver fails to finish the race (or is unable to start the race for reasons other than a penalty imposed by the stewards) the gearbox fitted to the car at the end of the Event must remain in it for the remainder of the five race sequence. Any driver who failed to finish the race at the first, second, third or fourth of the five Events for reasons which the technical delegate accepts as being beyond the control of the team or driver, may start the following Event with a different gearbox without a penalty being incurred.
A gearbox will be deemed to have been used once the car's timing transponder has shown that it has
left the pit lane.
b) If a driver is replaced after the first, second, third or fourth event of a five event period, having finished the first, second, third or fourth Events, the replacement driver must use the gearbox which the original driver had been using.
c) After consultation with the relevant team the FIA will attach seals to each gearbox in order to ensure that no moving parts, other than those specifically permitted under
d) At each Event seals may be broken once, under supervision and at any time prior to the second day
of practice, for the sole purpose of changing gear ratios and dog rings (excluding final drives or reduction gears). Competitors must inform the FIA technical delegate which ratios they intend to fit no later than two hours after the end of P2. However, one additional change of ratios and dog rings will be permitted if a gearbox change is necessary on the first day of practice before the end of P2. Gear ratios and dog rings (excluding final drives or reduction gears) may also be changed under supervision for others of identical specification at any time during an Event provided the FIA technical delegate is satisfied there is evident physical damage to the parts in question and that such changes are not being carried out on a systematic basis.
e) Other than under d) above, a replacement gearbox will also be deemed to have been used if any of the FIA seals are damaged or removed from the original gearbox after it has been used for the first time.
f) For 2011 only, except during the last Event of the Championship season, each driver will be permitted to use a replacement gearbox without incurring a penalty the first time this becomes necessary during the season. Under such circumstances the replacement gearbox will only be required to complete the remainder of the Event in question.[
a) Each driver may use no more than one gearbox for five consecutive Events in which his team competes. Should a driver use a replacement gearbox he will drop five places on the starting grid at that Event and an additional five places each time a further gearbox is used. Any replacement gearbox must be fitted with the same gear ratios that were declared under d) below and will only be required to complete the remainder of the Event in question. Any change to the gear ratios declared under d) below will incur a further five grid place penalty. In either case a new five race sequence may start at the following Event.
Unless the driver fails to finish the race (or is unable to start the race for reasons other than a penalty imposed by the stewards) the gearbox fitted to the car at the end of the Event must remain in it for the remainder of the five race sequence. Any driver who failed to finish the race at the first, second, third or fourth of the five Events for reasons which the technical delegate accepts as being beyond the control of the team or driver, may start the following Event with a different gearbox without a penalty being incurred.
A gearbox will be deemed to have been used once the car's timing transponder has shown that it has
left the pit lane.
b) If a driver is replaced after the first, second, third or fourth event of a five event period, having finished the first, second, third or fourth Events, the replacement driver must use the gearbox which the original driver had been using.
c) After consultation with the relevant team the FIA will attach seals to each gearbox in order to ensure that no moving parts, other than those specifically permitted under
d) At each Event seals may be broken once, under supervision and at any time prior to the second day
of practice, for the sole purpose of changing gear ratios and dog rings (excluding final drives or reduction gears). Competitors must inform the FIA technical delegate which ratios they intend to fit no later than two hours after the end of P2. However, one additional change of ratios and dog rings will be permitted if a gearbox change is necessary on the first day of practice before the end of P2. Gear ratios and dog rings (excluding final drives or reduction gears) may also be changed under supervision for others of identical specification at any time during an Event provided the FIA technical delegate is satisfied there is evident physical damage to the parts in question and that such changes are not being carried out on a systematic basis.
e) Other than under d) above, a replacement gearbox will also be deemed to have been used if any of the FIA seals are damaged or removed from the original gearbox after it has been used for the first time.
f) For 2011 only, except during the last Event of the Championship season, each driver will be permitted to use a replacement gearbox without incurring a penalty the first time this becomes necessary during the season. Under such circumstances the replacement gearbox will only be required to complete the remainder of the Event in question.[
andygo said:
I read somewhere that the damage only happened in the last 48 hours. Did someone drop it? I'm sure any investigative procedures would have been undertaken ages ago by McLaren, not left until a couple of days ago.
You can crack them open to change the ratios. Possibly in doing so they "snapped something off".Derek Smith said:
If it's not about addiing to the sport and, in fact, takes away, then it should be replaced by something that does not take away.
Why does it take something away from the sport? I quite like seeing good drivers fight through traffic.What I meant when I said it doesn't add anything to the sport was that the punishment doesn't add something to the sport but the rule does.
I'd prefer the rule to be a certain number of g/boxes & engines per car per season. That way, teams could manage the assemblies (maybe running a good box for 6 non-consecutive races, for example).
It would satisfy the cost incentive and reduce the number of spoiler penalties.
Alarm set for 0240 - what's the "0" for?
It would satisfy the cost incentive and reduce the number of spoiler penalties.
Alarm set for 0240 - what's the "0" for?
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