Pirelli tyres

[RYH64E]

Richard-G said:

Sorry scuffers, your a valuable forum member but your talking out of your arse. Perez was flying all afternoon. Look at the timing data.

I would have much preferred to see Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton fighting to the finish, there is no enjoyment for me in seeing Alonso overtaken so easily due to a combination of DRS and tyres that have just worn out. There is also no enjoyment in seeing a racer like Button lapped because he can't get the tyres to work, tyres should be a very minor part of the show not the deciding factor.

[Megaflow]

Scuffers said:

then I must be in the 'beyond' camp.

it's a farce that 2nd and 3rd are there because they drove like grannies all race.

I want to see real racing, NO DRS, no silly tyres.

If you look at the replay Hamilton was already alongside Alonso before the DRS line.

I also assume you were against the boost buttons during the turbo era too?

[Ahonen]

rdjohn said:

He sold the dummy perfectly in the Friday press conference when he said he might one-stop. Ferrari and Red Bull bought it.

That's a pretty silly thing to say.

Do you think teams, any teams in any form of racing, plan their strategies based on what a driver from a rival team says in a press conference? F1 teams employ people specifically in order to calculate strategies and study the pace and deg of rival teams in order to try to work out what everyone is up to. They simulate all sorts of race scenarios beforehand and attempt to calculate the ultimate race time based on a massive number of variables: and the 'What Lewis said in the press conference two days ago' algorithm is not one I'm personally familiar with.

[mondeoman]

RYH64E said:

Richard-G said:

Sorry scuffers, your a valuable forum member but your talking out of your arse. Perez was flying all afternoon. Look at the timing data.

I would have much preferred to see Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton fighting to the finish, there is no enjoyment for me in seeing Alonso overtaken so easily due to a combination of DRS and tyres that have just worn out. There is also no enjoyment in seeing a racer like Button lapped because he can't get the tyres to work, tyres should be a very minor part of the show not the deciding factor.

Alonso didn't get to the end because his team decided to try to eek out the tyres and bluff a one stop. If they'd jumped when Lewis did, you'd've seen a race to the finish, no problem. But Lewis was the better driver today and had the better strategy. A good win for him.

Tyres are important - they're the only thing keeping the car on the road and if you make them so they'll last the entire race, then everything slows down.

[Billy_rfc]

I love Pirelli. That is all

[Murph7355]

RYH64E said:

I would have much preferred to see Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton fighting to the finish, there is no enjoyment for me in seeing Alonso overtaken so easily due to a combination of DRS and tyres that have just worn out. There is also no enjoyment in seeing a racer like Button lapped because he can't get the tyres to work, tyres should be a very minor part of the show not the deciding factor.

So as long as the same people win you're OK

Everyone has the same choice of tyres. They're not built to suit any one driver. Hamilton, Grosjean, Perez, Alonso and Vettel all ran different strategies. None of them were exactly slow. They handled the equipment they had available to them to maximise their result.

As for Button. Very good driver, I like him a lot. Was over the moon when he won the WDC and equally at last season's performance. But there's something not there at the moment which isn't good and the tyres are not to blame - a great driver gets the best out of everything at his disposal...and judging by his comments today I think he knows this. His car and tyres are capable of winning (in his hands and his team mate's). Who knows what's happening with him...

[rdjohn]

Ahonen said:

That's a pretty silly thing to say.

Do you think teams, any teams in any form of racing, plan their strategies based on what a driver from a rival team says in a press conference? F1 teams employ people specifically in order to calculate strategies and study the pace and deg of rival teams in order to try to work out what everyone is up to. They simulate all sorts of race scenarios beforehand and attempt to calculate the ultimate race time based on a massive number of variables: and the 'What Lewis said in the press conference two days ago' algorithm is not one I'm personally familiar with.

Part of the strategy is to guess what the opposition will be doing. Miss-information is part of that game.

Presumably you missed Gary Anderson say this was a two-stop race before the race. One was possible from the back 11, starting on the harder compound. I guess that Lewis' comment "Are you sure that they are not one-stopping" was said to reinforce the dummy.

It was a well deserved win but Lewis' Friday times showed who the most likely winner was going to be, as passing is not difficult in Canada, but the serious opposition FA and SV were wrong-footed and lost the possibility of better placings through their poor choice of strategy.

[RYH64E]

mondeoman said:

Alonso didn't get to the end because his team decided to try to eek out the tyres and bluff a one stop. If they'd jumped when Lewis did, you'd've seen a race to the finish, no problem. But Lewis was the better driver today and had the better strategy. A good win for him.

Tyres are important - they're the only thing keeping the car on the road and if you make them so they'll last the entire race, then everything slows down.

Hamilton won because he didn't make his tyres last as well as Vettel and Alonso, if either Vettel or Alonso's tyes had worn out before Hamilton's then they would have lucked into the late pit stop strategy that worked for Hamilton. The most deserving winner would have been Grosjean, or Perez, who actually made the one stop strategy work and were still setting good lap times at the end, surprisingly.

I don't want to see the same drivers win week after week, but I do want to see the best car/driver combination win on merit. I don't see people crying out for Usain Bolt to be slowed down because he wins too often, maybe we should make him run in plimsolls?

[London424]

RYH64E said:

mondeoman said:

Alonso didn't get to the end because his team decided to try to eek out the tyres and bluff a one stop. If they'd jumped when Lewis did, you'd've seen a race to the finish, no problem. But Lewis was the better driver today and had the better strategy. A good win for him.

Tyres are important - they're the only thing keeping the car on the road and if you make them so they'll last the entire race, then everything slows down.

Hamilton won because he didn't make his tyres last as well as Vettel and Alonso, if either Vettel or Alonso's tyes had worn out before Hamilton's then they would have lucked into the late pit stop strategy that worked for Hamilton. The most deserving winner would have been Grosjean, or Perez, who actually made the one stop strategy work and were still setting good lap times at the end, surprisingly.

I don't want to see the same drivers win week after week, but I do want to see the best car/driver combination win on merit. I don't see people crying out for Usain Bolt to be slowed down because he wins too often, maybe we should make him run in plimsolls?

No, Hamilton won because the team set out to 2 stop. They knew that they couldn't make a 1 stop work for them.

Following his stop Alonso and Vettel then had a choice to make, cover the 2 stop or risk trying to get to the end. This time they chose the wrong option.

Isn't one of the main reasons Grosjean and Perez made a 1 stop work is because they ran the tyres in the opposite order to the front runners?

[Megaflow]

rdjohn said:

Presumably you missed Gary Anderson say this was a two-stop race before the race. One was possible from the back 11, starting on the harder compound. I guess that Lewis' comment "Are you sure that they are not one-stopping" was said to reinforce the dummy.

It was a well deserved win but Lewis' Friday times showed who the most likely winner was going to be, as passing is not difficult in Canada, but the serious opposition FA and SV were wrong-footed and lost the possibility of better placings through their poor choice of strategy.

Presumably you missed the section on pit stop stratergy in Sky's coverage, where the covered all of the options, from one stop to four stops, and two stops came out as the fastest by just 4.5 seconds, and therefore there was real doubt as to whether two stops was worth the risk of getting caught in traffic, which might swing it in favour of a one stop.

It was nowhere near as cut and dried a two stop race as it appears Gary Anderson was trying to make it out to be.

[rdjohn]

You are correct; I did not see the SKY coverage. Still in denial.

Lewis could put in fast times more or less as he wanted, all weekend, but he needed decent rubber to do this.

The risk of two-stopping was loosing track position if all the front runners were two-stopping. The dream scenario was convincing the serious contenders, that you could not do a one-stopper. Lewis did this beautifully.

The big risk with a one-stop (option first) was the prime tyres hitting the wall (not of champions), which they did as, when he was in the lead, Lewis allowed them to stay tantalisingly in-touch, but pressing-on.

With these Pirelli tyres the obligation is to drive to deltas and not be tempted into a race. Where you end up at the finish line is determined by the (best-guess) use of the tyres and not necessarily the absolute skills of the team, driver or performance of the car. This is what I believe is fundamentally wrong with the Pirelli tyres.

[London424]

rdjohn said:

You are correct; I did not see the SKY coverage. Still in denial.

Lewis could put in fast times more or less as he wanted, all weekend, but he needed decent rubber to do this.

The risk of two-stopping was loosing track position if all the front runners were two-stopping. The dream scenario was convincing the serious contenders, that you could not do a one-stopper. Lewis did this beautifully.

The big risk with a one-stop (option first) was the prime tyres hitting the wall (not of champions), which they did as, when he was in the lead, Lewis allowed them to stay tantalisingly in-touch, but pressing-on.

With these Pirelli tyres the obligation is to drive to deltas and not be tempted into a race. Where you end up at the finish line is determined by the (best-guess) use of the tyres and not necessarily the absolute skills of the team, driver or performance of the car. This is what I believe is fundamentally wrong with the Pirelli tyres.

I would agree to a point I just think it is a different set of skills than has been used historically. However, they can make indestructible tyres again and we are back to a procession and all of the complaints that followed during that era, so I'll take the show we have for now.

[RYH64E]

rdjohn said:

loosing

How hard is it to spell losing? Lose, losing, lost etc, single o.

[rdjohn]

RYH64E said:

rdjohn said:

loosing

Woops sorrey!

[AlexS]

RYH64E said:

I would have much preferred to see Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton fighting to the finish, there is no enjoyment for me in seeing Alonso overtaken so easily due to a combination of DRS and tyres that have just worn out. There is also no enjoyment in seeing a racer like Button lapped because he can't get the tyres to work, tyres should be a very minor part of the show not the deciding factor.

The race wasn't just the final pass on Alonso though. It was all about the unfolding strategies of the different teams all coming together over the final laps.

[Scuffers]

Richard-G said:

Scuffers said:

then I must be in the 'beyond' camp.

it's a farce that 2nd and 3rd are there because they drove like grannies all race.

I want to see real racing, NO DRS, no silly tyres.

Sorry scuffers, your a valuable forum member but your talking out of your arse. Perez was flying all afternoon. Look at the timing data.

ouch!

yes, I was watching the timing screen throughout the race, but reconcile this, if his laptimes were so good all the way though, how come he came second when Lewis had one more stop then him (and thus ~+15 seconds more stop time)?

and the way Alonso went backwards is just comical, I mean, what's the point? it's not racing, it's eco-driving.

[rdjohn]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100318

Pirelli to test new hard compound tyre in practice at the British Grand Prix

[Scuffers]

that's just laughable...

what is says to me is that they know they have issues with consistency, so their only answer it to make a harder (ie. more durable) tyre.

I personally think that Horners comments sum it up:

Christian Horne said:

Red Bull Racing believes Formula 1 teams may never totally get on top of the tyres this season - as a number of outfits chase the secret to having both good qualifying performance as well as long-distance pace in the race.

[Eric Mc]

Good.

I don't want engineers getting "on top of" anything in F1. The more they flounder the better it is for us.

[Scuffers]

Eric Mc said:

Good.

I don't want engineers getting "on top of" anything in F1. The more they flounder the better it is for us.

so we are back to this then: