Brands Hatch BTCC
Discussion
tux said:
Something that i haven't seen mentioned in this or the last thread in relation to straight line speed is aerodynamics. How much drag do we think the Honda has/doesnt have in relation to the MG and are some cars clearly more Aerodynamic than others to the point where they can gain an extra MPH or two over other cars.
I think I'm right in saying they try to make sure the cars have fairly equal aerodynamics by putting a roadcar version of each racecar into MIRA's windtunnel, then fix a wing to it and come up with some sort of formula. There was an article about this somewhere online and I'm looking for it. Edit: See page 50: http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/631dd36d#/631d...
Edited by IainW on Wednesday 17th October 18:56
IainW said:
decadence said:
Must be great to have your outlook, but I'm afraid its a bit deluded. Its very design is to keep cars equal...so i think you'll find Gow CAN tinker with it!
I am not deluded, thank you very much. Alan Gow can't change the boost settings mid-season. He could fiddle with them in 2011, hence the Toyota and Audi were like rocketships at times, but not now. I've seen the boost increase or lack of increase figures for a few rounds this year and the cars with more boost have performed as I expected.Edited by IainW on Wednesday 17th October 19:47
Thanks to Jason Plato, and I really mean that , he has given us fans the chance to see what we all expected was going on. I was ridiculed in the other thread regards the boosts being tinkered with now your suggesting they don't change the boosts at all??? huh? where have you been?
We can now see that the boost advantage for MG to Honda at silverstone is reversed. I can now see that for example some teams on that grid are beyond help as they have massive boost advantage yet do nothing with it, so it CLEARLY isn't working!!!
Roo said:
decadence said:
from those boosts i can pretty much predict the grid top to bottom...
Go on then.
ts and giggles tomorow. Point I am trying to make and have been trying to make but have been besmirched and riddicculed like I'm Jim Garrison, was that I have been criticising Plato for moaning about the boost and the regs... yet I didn't realise just how much I agree with him! BUT he kept quite after Silverstone... and I can see why. That drive from 20th to 1st was great, and there's probably only 5 drivers on that grid who could of done that in that car... but make no mistake.. the boost helped ALOT. Clearly Andy Neate is in a car that SHOULD be fighting for wins, not Jason is winning in a car that should be at the back.. it's there with Andy Neate cause he is crap..
Just a small fact I've been informed of about silverstone and Plato pulling into the middle of the track before going through the gate into the Outland when he retired. One of his mechanics pointed out that doing that was a bit dangerous given when he was on the track, his reply 'oh yea, I was trying to get them to red flag it'
That story came from a reliable source who was told by the mechanic in question..... If This is how this guy wants to win the he's worse than the guys further down the field that he criticises for bad driving.
That story came from a reliable source who was told by the mechanic in question..... If This is how this guy wants to win the he's worse than the guys further down the field that he criticises for bad driving.
decadence said:
I am, I'll do a run down for sts and giggles tomorow. Point I am trying to make and have been trying to make but have been besmirched and riddicculed like I'm Jim Garrison, was that I have been criticising Plato for moaning about the boost and the regs... yet I didn't realise just how much I agree with him! BUT he kept quite after Silverstone... and I can see why. That drive from 20th to 1st was great, and there's probably only 5 drivers on that grid who could of done that in that car... but make no mistake.. the boost helped ALOT.
Clearly Andy Neate is in a car that SHOULD be fighting for wins, not Jason is winning in a car that should be at the back.. it's there with Andy Neate cause he is crap..
You have changed your tune anyway grid predictions pleasets and giggles tomorow. Point I am trying to make and have been trying to make but have been besmirched and riddicculed like I'm Jim Garrison, was that I have been criticising Plato for moaning about the boost and the regs... yet I didn't realise just how much I agree with him! BUT he kept quite after Silverstone... and I can see why. That drive from 20th to 1st was great, and there's probably only 5 drivers on that grid who could of done that in that car... but make no mistake.. the boost helped ALOT. Clearly Andy Neate is in a car that SHOULD be fighting for wins, not Jason is winning in a car that should be at the back.. it's there with Andy Neate cause he is crap..
kodos said:
decadence said:
I am, I'll do a run down for sts and giggles tomorow. Point I am trying to make and have been trying to make but have been besmirched and riddicculed like I'm Jim Garrison, was that I have been criticising Plato for moaning about the boost and the regs... yet I didn't realise just how much I agree with him! BUT he kept quite after Silverstone... and I can see why. That drive from 20th to 1st was great, and there's probably only 5 drivers on that grid who could of done that in that car... but make no mistake.. the boost helped ALOT.
Clearly Andy Neate is in a car that SHOULD be fighting for wins, not Jason is winning in a car that should be at the back.. it's there with Andy Neate cause he is crap..
You have changed your tune anyway grid predictions pleasets and giggles tomorow. Point I am trying to make and have been trying to make but have been besmirched and riddicculed like I'm Jim Garrison, was that I have been criticising Plato for moaning about the boost and the regs... yet I didn't realise just how much I agree with him! BUT he kept quite after Silverstone... and I can see why. That drive from 20th to 1st was great, and there's probably only 5 drivers on that grid who could of done that in that car... but make no mistake.. the boost helped ALOT. Clearly Andy Neate is in a car that SHOULD be fighting for wins, not Jason is winning in a car that should be at the back.. it's there with Andy Neate cause he is crap..
I am a BTCC fan not a fan of any particular team.. people tried to suggest I was pro Honda , I'm not, If I tune in Sunday and it's a Honda white wash I'll be peed off frankly.
Yes Plato was out of order with Aron Smith and yes he can be annoying and plays the system.. but don't hate the player ... hate the game ... and I think this boost thing is pointless and not working..
decadence said:
Well clearly he can!!
Thanks to Jason Plato, and I really mean that , he has given us fans the chance to see what we all expected was going on. I was ridiculed in the other thread regards the boosts being tinkered with now your suggesting they don't change the boosts at all??? huh? where have you been?
What the hell are you on about?! I said Alan Gow doesn't change the boost settings to suit himself, which is correct. They get changed according to the results of the formula they all agreed to before the season. No other changes are made outside of that. Stop trying to make people look stupid.Thanks to Jason Plato, and I really mean that , he has given us fans the chance to see what we all expected was going on. I was ridiculed in the other thread regards the boosts being tinkered with now your suggesting they don't change the boosts at all??? huh? where have you been?
IainW said:
decadence said:
Well clearly he can!!
Thanks to Jason Plato, and I really mean that , he has given us fans the chance to see what we all expected was going on. I was ridiculed in the other thread regards the boosts being tinkered with now your suggesting they don't change the boosts at all??? huh? where have you been?
What the hell are you on about?! I said Alan Gow doesn't change the boost settings to suit himself, which is correct. They get changed according to the results of the formula they all agreed to before the season. No other changes are made outside of that. Stop trying to make people look stupid.Thanks to Jason Plato, and I really mean that , he has given us fans the chance to see what we all expected was going on. I was ridiculed in the other thread regards the boosts being tinkered with now your suggesting they don't change the boosts at all??? huh? where have you been?
Edited by decadence on Thursday 18th October 00:53
IainW said:
decadence said:
Must be great to have your outlook, but I'm afraid its a bit deluded. Its very design is to keep cars equal...so i think you'll find Gow CAN tinker with it!
I am not deluded, thank you very much. Alan Gow can't change the boost settings mid-season. He could fiddle with them in 2011, hence the Toyota and Audi were like rocketships at times, but not now. I've seen the boost increase or lack of increase figures for a few rounds this year and the cars with more boost have performed as I expected.Edited by IainW on Wednesday 17th October 19:47
It's simple, If you do well The headmaster gives you less boost... you do crap you get the most.
Another point is that take the best drivers out there, the pros not your Neates or Jeff Smiths or Nick Fosters etc, give them 30 bhp extra you may just see them gain few spots but most likely extra power will just make them more likely to crash like Neate. but give the pro driver extra 30 bhp and that will be all he needs to gain that advantage.. Alan Gow got it wrong. it may look close on the points table.. but on track it's not been.... Silverstone is proof of that.. so unless you get excited by watching the points table, it's all been a bit messy really...
IainW - Can I please get your arguement straight.
I understand it to be: There IS alteration in turbo boost. This is done via a prescribed equivalency formula set out at the start of the season which all teams signed up to. However, Alan Gow does not head down to Team Dynamics pit on a Saturday morning with his socket set and turn the boost up 'because he felt like it' as he ate his weetabix at brekky.
ETA: If I am correct, I agree. I am really not sure what decadence was driving at.
I understand it to be: There IS alteration in turbo boost. This is done via a prescribed equivalency formula set out at the start of the season which all teams signed up to. However, Alan Gow does not head down to Team Dynamics pit on a Saturday morning with his socket set and turn the boost up 'because he felt like it' as he ate his weetabix at brekky.
ETA: If I am correct, I agree. I am really not sure what decadence was driving at.
Edited by Vocal Minority on Thursday 18th October 09:38
decadence said:
You said Alan Gow cant change boost settings mid season.... Jason has provided proof that he has in last 2 race weekends...
It's simple, If you do well The headmaster gives you less boost... you do crap you get the most.
Another point is that take the best drivers out there, the pros not your Neates or Jeff Smiths or Nick Fosters etc, give them 30 bhp extra you may just see them gain few spots but most likely extra power will just make them more likely to crash like Neate. but give the pro driver extra 30 bhp and that will be all he needs to gain that advantage.. Alan Gow got it wrong. it may look close on the points table.. but on track it's not been.... Silverstone is proof of that.. so unless you get excited by watching the points table, it's all been a bit messy really...
Ok, ok we get your point. We know where you stand on the matter. Can you please find another forum to spam please. Some of us enjoy BTCC as it is and are actually looking forward to this weekend, and enjoy chatting about it on a like minded forum/thread. You single handedly have now ruined two threads, regardless of how valid/not valid your point is with the constant loop.It's simple, If you do well The headmaster gives you less boost... you do crap you get the most.
Another point is that take the best drivers out there, the pros not your Neates or Jeff Smiths or Nick Fosters etc, give them 30 bhp extra you may just see them gain few spots but most likely extra power will just make them more likely to crash like Neate. but give the pro driver extra 30 bhp and that will be all he needs to gain that advantage.. Alan Gow got it wrong. it may look close on the points table.. but on track it's not been.... Silverstone is proof of that.. so unless you get excited by watching the points table, it's all been a bit messy really...
Feel free to write a letter to Alan Gow, or send Jason P, and Andy Neate an email, i'm sure they'll put you straight.
Does anyone know what WSR are doing next year? I really rate TOC and would like to see him in a NGTC, he always seems to be struggling with traction
fatboy69 said:
Excuse me? You are now saying that JP's drive from 20th to 1st was a great drive?
Mmmmm. Epic u-turn to match the current governments almost daily u-turns!!!
Nope, re read... what said was only he and 5 others drivers on that grid COULD of done that in that car with that much boost... the rest would of wasted it, like they do every race...were honda to of had that boost and MG none it would of been a reversal, if Honda had of had same boost as MG they would of been towards the front battling with JP... we were robbed of that.Mmmmm. Epic u-turn to match the current governments almost daily u-turns!!!
Clearly as day the boost levelling is fudging things. Jason's 20th to 1st dosen't seem like such a Rocky moment now to anyone but the most staunch fan...And claims of the MG being the 'chassis ' are clearly refutable now we see they were boosted more than Honda..
All I'm saying is fingers crossed it right for brands cause it will be a cracker!!
But to me seems too much boost difference between the MG and Honda in Hondas favour .... more boost, best chassis.. whether you like Plato or not hes under dog this weekend now as Honda were at Silverstone.. why can't we just let them race with equal boost all season and see what happens?
I seem to recall that you gave him no credit at all saying that a monkey could have won in that car. I can't be arsed to trawl back through hundreds of postings however I am sure that's what you said.
If I am mistaken then I apologise in advance as I might have got that wrong...... I don't think i did but the apology is there just in case!
If I am mistaken then I apologise in advance as I might have got that wrong...... I don't think i did but the apology is there just in case!
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