Brands Hatch BTCC
Discussion
Right, top of the thread down;
Cant slag Plato but wedge of posts suggesting theres no chance of a fair fight because of Matt Neal? b
h please, one is just as bad as the other and anyone who claims otherwise, in EITHER direction, is a fanboy.
Plato's performance at Silverstone in race 3 did a lot to redeem him in my eyes. It was a great drive and clean too. Now if he'll just stop perma-moaning, chastising people for bump and runs like he has practically trademarked and (for the love of god) stops talking about himself in the 3rd person, I might be able to get back to quite liking him as a driver.
Plato parking the car on the start finish straight to reflag the race, really struggle to believe that. He didnt retire until lap 18, there's nothing to be gained from redflagging the race at that point, it wouldnt be a re-grid. Stopping it there gained the team an extra 15-20mins to work on the car.
Boost switches for Brands, really that chart means bugger all unless we can compare it to what they were running at Silverstone. I'd suggest the Audi, for example, already had a nice boost advantage, the thing still looks like it bucks and bobs through corners and looks a fair handful but with RWD and decent boost it'll make up a lot in drive out the corner and acceleration. So knowing its got 0.1 for Brands means little if it already had 0.1 at Silverstone.
I'd like to see Shedden and Jackson go off and have a clean fight this weekend for race wins and Plato and Neal knock lumps out each other for 3rd. What we will actually see is anyone's guess!
Cant slag Plato but wedge of posts suggesting theres no chance of a fair fight because of Matt Neal? b
h please, one is just as bad as the other and anyone who claims otherwise, in EITHER direction, is a fanboy.Plato's performance at Silverstone in race 3 did a lot to redeem him in my eyes. It was a great drive and clean too. Now if he'll just stop perma-moaning, chastising people for bump and runs like he has practically trademarked and (for the love of god) stops talking about himself in the 3rd person, I might be able to get back to quite liking him as a driver.
Plato parking the car on the start finish straight to reflag the race, really struggle to believe that. He didnt retire until lap 18, there's nothing to be gained from redflagging the race at that point, it wouldnt be a re-grid. Stopping it there gained the team an extra 15-20mins to work on the car.
Boost switches for Brands, really that chart means bugger all unless we can compare it to what they were running at Silverstone. I'd suggest the Audi, for example, already had a nice boost advantage, the thing still looks like it bucks and bobs through corners and looks a fair handful but with RWD and decent boost it'll make up a lot in drive out the corner and acceleration. So knowing its got 0.1 for Brands means little if it already had 0.1 at Silverstone.
I'd like to see Shedden and Jackson go off and have a clean fight this weekend for race wins and Plato and Neal knock lumps out each other for 3rd. What we will actually see is anyone's guess!
VictoriaYorks said:
lol
I really want Shedden to take the title
Why? So we have to listen to Neal saying, through gritted teeth, how much Flash deserved the title, what a great result for the team, I did all i could to help him. Blah blah blah.I really want Shedden to take the title
FFS. Can't think of anything worse than listening to Neal bleating on.
emicen said:
Boost switches for Brands, really that chart means bugger all unless we can compare it to what they were running at Silverstone. I'd suggest the Audi, for example, already had a nice boost advantage, the thing still looks like it bucks and bobs through corners and looks a fair handful but with RWD and decent boost it'll make up a lot in drive out the corner and acceleration. So knowing its got 0.1 for Brands means little if it already had 0.1 at Silverstone.
Compare away, I think a lot of people missed that decadence posted the Silverstone figures from BTCC.net;SILVERSTONE
Audi A4 NGTC 0.125
Honda Civic NGTC 0.000
MG 6 NGTC TOCA 0.050
Proton NGTC TOCA 0.100
Toyota Avensis NGTC 0.100
Toyota Avensis NGTC TOCA 0.075
Vauxhall Insignia NGTC TOCA 0.100
BMW S2000 T 0.050
Ford Focus NGTC 0.075
Ford Focus S2000 T 0.100
Honda Civic S2000 T 0.125
Vauxhall Vectra S2000 T TOCA 0.125
VW Golf S2000 T 0.125
BRANDS
Audi A4 NGTC 0.100
Honda Civic NGTC 0.050
MG 6 NGTC TOCA 0.000
Proton NGTC TOCA 0.075
Toyota Avensis NGTC 0.075
Toyota Avensis NGTC TOCA 0.100
Vauxhall Insignia NGTC TOCA 0.125
BMW S2000 T 0.075
Ford Focus NGTC 0.050
Ford Focus S2000 T 0.100
Honda Civic S2000 T 0.100
Vauxhall Vectra S2000 T TOCA 0.100
VW Golf S2000 T 0.125
By my reckoning that means the following;
Audi A4 NGTC down 0.025
Honda Civic NGTC up 0.050
MG 6 NGTC TOCA down 0.050
Proton NGTC TOCA down 0.025
Toyota Avensis NGTC down 0.025
Toyota Avensis NGTC TOCA up 0.025
Vauxhall Insignia NGTC TOCA up 0.025
BMW S2000 T up 0.025
Ford Focus NGTC down 0.025
Ford Focus S2000 T no change
Honda Civic S2000 T down 0.025
Vauxhall Vectra S2000 T TOCA down 0.025
VW Golf S2000 T no change
emicen said:
I'd like to see Shedden and Jackson go off and have a clean fight this weekend for race wins and Plato and Neal knock lumps out each other for 3rd. What we will actually see is anyone's guess!
Me too, and I think that in that respect, the equivalence formula has worked. What I don't like is that it also puts drivers like Neate in places they wouldn't otherwise be and endangers the championship prospects (and wallets) of some far better drivers.Vocal Minority said:
IainW - Can I please get your arguement straight.
I understand it to be: There IS alteration in turbo boost. This is done via a prescribed equivalency formula set out at the start of the season which all teams signed up to. However, Alan Gow does not head down to Team Dynamics pit on a Saturday morning with his socket set and turn the boost up 'because he felt like it' as he ate his weetabix at brekky.
ETA: If I am correct, I agree. I am really not sure what decadence was driving at.
That's spot on. Thank you.I understand it to be: There IS alteration in turbo boost. This is done via a prescribed equivalency formula set out at the start of the season which all teams signed up to. However, Alan Gow does not head down to Team Dynamics pit on a Saturday morning with his socket set and turn the boost up 'because he felt like it' as he ate his weetabix at brekky.
ETA: If I am correct, I agree. I am really not sure what decadence was driving at.
Edited by Vocal Minority on Thursday 18th October 09:38
fatboy69 said:
I seem to recall that you gave him no credit at all saying that a monkey could have won in that car. I can't be arsed to trawl back through hundreds of postings however I am sure that's what you said.
If I am mistaken then I apologise in advance as I might have got that wrong...... I don't think i did but the apology is there just in case!
I never said that...If I am mistaken then I apologise in advance as I might have got that wrong...... I don't think i did but the apology is there just in case!
Clearly not as otherwise Neate would of been in second place!!!!
Certainly if Sheddon / Neal / Mat Jackson / Collard / Newsham / TOC / Jordan , they all could of done that in that car.
My point has always been that Plato likes to suggest that that MG is crap (or at least he did till Silverstone) and with Neate in second one its easy to believe the hype, but that MG has been one of the best cars on that grid, as such the boost they got for Silverstone was unfair.
Conspiracy hat on, regards Mat Jackson who is for me one the best drivers out there, but with the NGTC focus i think it gets more boost as hes out of title hunt and Alan Gow want folks to see that if they put the money in and get an NGTC car they to can be race winners...
People talked of the amazing achievement of MG coming back to win, but really its triple 8 car with a MG shell, they have been in the game a long time.. but that Focus of Mats, Motorbase have NEVER built their own car before, NEVER! Yet have a race winning built car from ground up...now THAT is an achievement worth shouting about...
IainW said:
Vocal Minority said:
IainW - Can I please get your arguement straight.
I understand it to be: There IS alteration in turbo boost. This is done via a prescribed equivalency formula set out at the start of the season which all teams signed up to. However, Alan Gow does not head down to Team Dynamics pit on a Saturday morning with his socket set and turn the boost up 'because he felt like it' as he ate his weetabix at brekky.
ETA: If I am correct, I agree. I am really not sure what decadence was driving at.
That's spot on. Thank you.I understand it to be: There IS alteration in turbo boost. This is done via a prescribed equivalency formula set out at the start of the season which all teams signed up to. However, Alan Gow does not head down to Team Dynamics pit on a Saturday morning with his socket set and turn the boost up 'because he felt like it' as he ate his weetabix at brekky.
ETA: If I am correct, I agree. I am really not sure what decadence was driving at.
Edited by Vocal Minority on Thursday 18th October 09:38
You get this weird back and forth effect of
"oh they were too fast at X track...decrease boost....opps too slow now compared to X in Y car...should we decrease Y OR increase X?....opps now we made Z too fast compared to Y..now X needs a boost increase to level.....blah blah blah.."
thats the way i see it, far too complex and fraught with issues....
surely the way to go is same boost, if you cant afford the best drivers or the best mechanics etc etc and you are struggling...well thats life i'm afraid.... buck up or ship out...
decadence said:
I didn't think that Alan Gow went along with a spanner and did it himself. BUT can i dare to suggest that by the time they realise in the last race weekend a car had too much boost...changing it for the next round is a bit late?
When you say "they realise" you do realise the "they" you are referring to is a bit of maths. There is no human involved in the decision. It's entirely done with numbers in a bit of logic.You are arguing that something along the lines of:
For Audi if delta > 2 seconds over weekend then increase boost by 0.25 psi before next weekend
Now try arguing with it again and see if it responds.
Look Guys and girls,
The formula for changing the boost after each race was agreed by all the teams at the beginning of the year. This calculation is done mathematically based on lap time averages of qualifying, and races over a rolling 2 race meeting basis. There is no human intervention.
As far as the initial boost settings prior to the season, this was calculated by engine experts who analysed each engine type/make and set the base line boost pressure to equalise the various engine outputs, both torque and BHP.
This is absolutely necessary as some engines will be better or less suited to a racing environment and will produce better or worse figures than other manufactures. This was again agreed by all the teams prior to the season. What we need to have is all engines at the first race of the year outputting very similar or near identical BHP and Torque figures, this was achieved by the pre season engine tests.
Not sure what you are arguing about now.
if it is that all engines should be on the same boost pressure at the beginning of the year? well this just simply would not work, those with the best base engine would win everything.
It has to be a level playing field at the beginning and then about the driver and team improving the chassis to get the advantage. I for one do not want to be being passed on the straights or passing on the straights.
Hope this clears things up.
JP
The formula for changing the boost after each race was agreed by all the teams at the beginning of the year. This calculation is done mathematically based on lap time averages of qualifying, and races over a rolling 2 race meeting basis. There is no human intervention.
As far as the initial boost settings prior to the season, this was calculated by engine experts who analysed each engine type/make and set the base line boost pressure to equalise the various engine outputs, both torque and BHP.
This is absolutely necessary as some engines will be better or less suited to a racing environment and will produce better or worse figures than other manufactures. This was again agreed by all the teams prior to the season. What we need to have is all engines at the first race of the year outputting very similar or near identical BHP and Torque figures, this was achieved by the pre season engine tests.
Not sure what you are arguing about now.
if it is that all engines should be on the same boost pressure at the beginning of the year? well this just simply would not work, those with the best base engine would win everything.
It has to be a level playing field at the beginning and then about the driver and team improving the chassis to get the advantage. I for one do not want to be being passed on the straights or passing on the straights.
Hope this clears things up.
JP
jasonplato said:
It has to be a level playing field at the beginning and then about the driver and team improving the chassis to get the advantage. I for one do not want to be being passed on the straights or passing on the straights.
Doesn't the fact that the boost increase is based on lap times mean that the cars with the best chassis are being penalised? Sureley it should be based on straight line speed, otherwise the cars with the best chassis (for example the works Hondas) end up being passed on the straights, because they were judged to have been too fast round the corners.Obviously I realise it's not your decision, but do you agree?
Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff