Brands Hatch BTCC
Discussion
Wh00sher said:
A guy on another forum has posted some cracking photos, I think they are worth sharing . 
Whoops.
BTCC Brands Hatch by Rich Wigley, on Flickr
Newshams reply to this picture was "Hmmmm, I'm just home and watch the footage. Good shot from camera on right showing I was running parallel to the kerb. At no point did I turn right into him!"Whoops.
BTCC Brands Hatch by Rich Wigley, on Flickr
Janesy B said:
This is a pits manoeuvre 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGhcNH6yFCc&t=1...
What happened there wasn't Plato's fault, and I like to blame him as much as I can
That's a shocker by JP.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGhcNH6yFCc&t=1...
What happened there wasn't Plato's fault, and I like to blame him as much as I can
Crikey, look at all the handbags over a bit of contact.
If you don't want a bit of contact and controversy, go watch nancy boy hamilton drive fast in his plastic car.
On an unrelated note, if the wookie is reading this: how did you get into TC racing ollie?
If you don't want a bit of contact and controversy, go watch nancy boy hamilton drive fast in his plastic car.
IainW said:
Thorney have put up their review of the season. Makes interesting reading. http://www.thorney-vauxhall.co.uk/thorneyRacing.ht...
At least he's not afraid to admit the embarassment that was brands at the start of the season. I just don't see how anyone would even consider going into motorsport, without near-unlimited amounts of money. I often wonder why so many teams that consistently do badly, keep coming back. Are they making any money or just huge losses?On an unrelated note, if the wookie is reading this: how did you get into TC racing ollie?
Edited by pistonoobs on Monday 29th October 01:11
LiamM45 said:
Janesy B said:
He's brushed up on his PR skills. They have themselves another supporter next season.
+1.Great article and i wish those guys all the best.
The car looked to have potential all year, think Tony Gilham said it more than once in interviews so hopefully Team Hard and Thorney can get them sorted next year. Will certainly be interesting to see who the new sponsors are.
I Posted this in another thread but feel it applys here as well.
Does no one else think this Thorney bloke is on another planet?
And here’s why
1- If he’s secured sponsors and is building cars for next season then why bother selling the current cars at a rumoured “huge loss” especially when one was only a bare shell? (Ive heard 150k)
2- What team has 15 people on a car? Most teams only have 3 or 4 guys running a car. The bigger teams a few extras granted.
3- He had a Stingray RV so why is he so hard done by?
4- The car has never shown potential of any kind, Snetterton is the quickest its been and he admits they were playing with the boost. Gilham was the quickest NGTC car in every speed trap and quicker than the S2000’s in one as well.
5- Stockton wasn’t ill… he had only driven the car in the wet and after a dry session he refused to drive it again on the grounds of safety!
6- Welch built his own car long before Thorney, he knows that, so why say you’re the first?
7- Team Hard wouldn’t struggle to run any new car… they only struggled at Brands because it was in “appalling” condition and the team freely admit they are going to have to start again in the winter. And why would they want set up advice from the man with the worst set up car on the grid?
I could go on but I think you get my point. I’m sorry if it looks like I’m just ripping the guy apart and I know it must be tough and all the new teams struggled with the NGTC stuff from GPRM but that reports just a fairy-tale and it annoys me when people lie!
Does no one else think this Thorney bloke is on another planet?
And here’s why
1- If he’s secured sponsors and is building cars for next season then why bother selling the current cars at a rumoured “huge loss” especially when one was only a bare shell? (Ive heard 150k)
2- What team has 15 people on a car? Most teams only have 3 or 4 guys running a car. The bigger teams a few extras granted.
3- He had a Stingray RV so why is he so hard done by?
4- The car has never shown potential of any kind, Snetterton is the quickest its been and he admits they were playing with the boost. Gilham was the quickest NGTC car in every speed trap and quicker than the S2000’s in one as well.
5- Stockton wasn’t ill… he had only driven the car in the wet and after a dry session he refused to drive it again on the grounds of safety!
6- Welch built his own car long before Thorney, he knows that, so why say you’re the first?
7- Team Hard wouldn’t struggle to run any new car… they only struggled at Brands because it was in “appalling” condition and the team freely admit they are going to have to start again in the winter. And why would they want set up advice from the man with the worst set up car on the grid?
I could go on but I think you get my point. I’m sorry if it looks like I’m just ripping the guy apart and I know it must be tough and all the new teams struggled with the NGTC stuff from GPRM but that reports just a fairy-tale and it annoys me when people lie!
Having spoken to the Welch boys, they were falsely led to believe that they had to use GPRM for certain parts of it but they were more hindered than helped. I think they would have something to say if GPRM tried to take any credit.
Besides, Thorney didn’t do the shell himself anyway. It was another company.
Besides, Thorney didn’t do the shell himself anyway. It was another company.
AJracer said:
I Posted this in another thread but feel it applys here as well.
Does no one else think this Thorney bloke is on another planet?
And here’s why
1- If he’s secured sponsors and is building cars for next season then why bother selling the current cars at a rumoured “huge loss” especially when one was only a bare shell? (Ive heard 150k)
Because we had two clear aims from the BTCC project, one was to build cars for other teams and the other was to race our own team. When Tony's backers approached us regarding buying the cars this was very much part of that plan. Whilst we made a loss on the cars (first build that is quite expected) we are very happy with the terms and the £150k you mention is way off the mark. I wont however discuss the actual terms as its a private deal between us and Tony's investors. The money we received can now be re-cycled into building new cars for the grid for both us and other teams. Does no one else think this Thorney bloke is on another planet?
And here’s why
1- If he’s secured sponsors and is building cars for next season then why bother selling the current cars at a rumoured “huge loss” especially when one was only a bare shell? (Ive heard 150k)
AJracer said:
2- What team has 15 people on a car? Most teams only have 3 or 4 guys running a car. The bigger teams a few extras granted.
A simple head count will tell you how many people are there on behalf of the team, typically you have, my point was simply that Ricky, Matt, Shane and myself, together with a weekend helper from Tony who'd not spannered a touring car before (he was very good though) made sure the car was prepared all weekend. I'm proud of them for that, if you dont agree then so be it, you're entitled to your opinion.AJracer said:
3- He had a Stingray RV so why is he so hard done by?
We were sponsored by them, we dont own one.AJracer said:
4- The car has never shown potential of any kind, Snetterton is the quickest its been and he admits they were playing with the boost. Gilham was the quickest NGTC car in every speed trap and quicker than the S2000’s in one as well.
Clearly it was so crap Tony bought two.AJracer said:
5- Stockton wasn’t ill… he had only driven the car in the wet and after a dry session he refused to drive it again on the grounds of safety!
I'm sure Chris will be more than happy to tell you what happened, not my position to comment other than what has been said. If it was 'dangerous' as you say I'm sure Tony would have mentioned it.AJracer said:
6- Welch built his own car long before Thorney, he knows that, so why say you’re the first?
GPRM built the Proton, granted with a lot of help from Dans crew, indeed I was there at GPRM as they were assembling it, it was built at GPRM's HQ in Buckingham using GPRM staff and materials. AJracer said:
7- Team Hard wouldn’t struggle to run any new car… they only struggled at Brands because it was in “appalling” condition and the team freely admit they are going to have to start again in the winter. And why would they want set up advice from the man with the worst set up car on the grid?
I'll bite my tongue here, the car was immaculate when it was collected, comments to suggest otherwise are nothing more than absolute crap. As regards set up, well take some time to call Honda or 888 and ask how different an NGTC car is compared to an S2000, that might answer your question nicely.AJracer said:
I could go on but I think you get my point. I’m sorry if it looks like I’m just ripping the guy apart and I know it must be tough and all the new teams struggled with the NGTC stuff from GPRM but that reports just a fairy-tale and it annoys me when people lie!
You are of course entitled to your opinion and that is perfectly fair and reasonable. However I would appreciate the courtesy to not accuse me of 'lying' it is both not right nor fair. But be aware just because someone works for the team they may both have their own vested interest in saying such things or indeed not know any real facts at all, might be wise to think before commenting. Fair enough?AJracer said:
I am local to a team and help out at weekends so I get all the goss. I dont want to name and shame them incase I get in trouble for saying too much. To be fair I only joined because Thorneys fairytail wound me up so much.
Gossip is exactly that, nothing more than rumour. I'm happy to put some facts into the thread simply to avoid others thinking that such 'goss' in anything more than that.AJracer said:
Having spoken to the Welch boys, they were falsely led to believe that they had to use GPRM for certain parts of it but they were more hindered than helped. I think they would have something to say if GPRM tried to take any credit.
Knowing the Welch team very well I'd have to agree, they have worked very hard on that car and some decent peddling from Dan has pushed it higher up the grid with each race, I have a lot of time for them and they have done an excellent job.AJracer said:
Besides, Thorney didn’t do the shell himself anyway. It was another company.
Did I hold the welder? No. However did I personally design, implement and execute the shell preparation for the Insignia from the bare shell to the paint in conjunction with Willie Poole (the person you are referring to), Yes, I most certainly did. Indeed other teams have been so impressed with the quality of the job that the same people have now built other cars on the gird for this past season and new cars for next season. And TMS own the homologation rights to the entire car, so clearly TOCA seem to think we had a hand in it Oh my god, your delusional….
Right so you had as much input in to the shell as Welch. Welch had to take their project to GPRM to finish it at their premises because GPRM were still building the NGTC bits and they had a deadline. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying you didn’t build your car, I’m saying you weren’t the first and that is absolute fact! So why claim you are?
Back to my points.
1 – You say you sold the cars at a loss (which was my original point) why on earth would you do that if your trying to make a business out of it? And if you have sponsors lined up for next year you clearly have a lot of work to do to keep them happy, surely you want to just get on with it without the delay of having a new shell done before you can build and test?
2 – All I’m saying is you had the same number of people working on the car as most of the other teams. If your proud then that’s great but why the pity plea?
3 – as are a lot of the drivers, few own them. Again, why the pity plea?
4 – Yes, that’s why you sold them at a loss, he bought them because they were cheap.
5 – I think Tony demonstrated it by going off behind the safety car.
6 – Already answered.
7 – It sounds like your version os immaculate differs from other BTCC teams. Even so clean doesn’t mean well prepared.
8 – I apologise for accusing you for Lying. However you are putting a very big twist on the cold hard facts and I’m concerned I think even you believe what you are saying.
I may not know everything that goes on but I know enough about this game to spot your type. Do you not think you would win more respect, support and understanding by holding your hands up and just admitting your out of your depth but you’re doing your best to learn and improve rather than blaming everything else and playing the pity card over and over?
Right so you had as much input in to the shell as Welch. Welch had to take their project to GPRM to finish it at their premises because GPRM were still building the NGTC bits and they had a deadline. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying you didn’t build your car, I’m saying you weren’t the first and that is absolute fact! So why claim you are?
Back to my points.
1 – You say you sold the cars at a loss (which was my original point) why on earth would you do that if your trying to make a business out of it? And if you have sponsors lined up for next year you clearly have a lot of work to do to keep them happy, surely you want to just get on with it without the delay of having a new shell done before you can build and test?
2 – All I’m saying is you had the same number of people working on the car as most of the other teams. If your proud then that’s great but why the pity plea?
3 – as are a lot of the drivers, few own them. Again, why the pity plea?
4 – Yes, that’s why you sold them at a loss, he bought them because they were cheap.
5 – I think Tony demonstrated it by going off behind the safety car.
6 – Already answered.
7 – It sounds like your version os immaculate differs from other BTCC teams. Even so clean doesn’t mean well prepared.
8 – I apologise for accusing you for Lying. However you are putting a very big twist on the cold hard facts and I’m concerned I think even you believe what you are saying.
I may not know everything that goes on but I know enough about this game to spot your type. Do you not think you would win more respect, support and understanding by holding your hands up and just admitting your out of your depth but you’re doing your best to learn and improve rather than blaming everything else and playing the pity card over and over?
I'm not going to argue with you, you have your opinion of me/us and so be it, I wont be arrogant enough to try and change it.
You mention pity card, well all I have done is write up what happened to us during the season, I think it is humble enough to say where and when we went wrong and importantly that I take full responsibility for it, if you consider that a 'pity card' then I can but disagree.
As regards Tony going off at Silverstone, well he was called for a drive through penalty for a jump start, he came in at the end of lap one, went straight out and spun the first time he hit the brakes, stone cold tyres and a point he readily accepted was a 'red mist' moment. Thats racing, not his fault but also not the 'fault' of the car to use it as a yard stick as to whether its any good or not.
You mention pity card, well all I have done is write up what happened to us during the season, I think it is humble enough to say where and when we went wrong and importantly that I take full responsibility for it, if you consider that a 'pity card' then I can but disagree.
As regards Tony going off at Silverstone, well he was called for a drive through penalty for a jump start, he came in at the end of lap one, went straight out and spun the first time he hit the brakes, stone cold tyres and a point he readily accepted was a 'red mist' moment. Thats racing, not his fault but also not the 'fault' of the car to use it as a yard stick as to whether its any good or not.
AJracer said:
7 – It sounds like your version os immaculate differs from other BTCC teams. Even so clean doesn’t mean well prepared.
I will mention this though as it 100% inaccurate.The car was stripped down completely after Silverstone, both sub frames off and every part disassembled, hubs removed and disassembled, all dust seals stripped and replaced, every bearing surface was stripped, de-greased and re-assembled. Dampers all removed and dyno tested, all calipers removed, dust seals checked and replaced, disks removed and measured. Engine was damaged at Silverstone so that was removed and sent to Swindon, gearbox removed and left on shelf to be collected (Swindon sent new engine to Tony directly). All fluids were drained and measured.
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