RE: Tuscans at Thruxton
Discussion
DustyC said:Just like the TVRCC Challenge then!
Would be good if it was opened up to other TVR models and the race run with various classes. That would make one of the most exciting race series even more exciting!
There was a Tuscan out in the last round at Rockingham this weekend (albeit with a Rover V8 fitted).
I reckon the cash required to keep things (basically) as they are is pretty low to be honest. It is also not a lot compared to the cost of a GT series.
The bottom line is that, with a bit of luck, the Tuscans will become a private series run by/for the drivers. I don't agree with NS decision to get out (on the grounds that the savings are so minimal and the benefits are likely to be equally small initially). On the other hand - it's his ball and if he wants to take it away there's precious little I/we can do to stop him.
The bottom line is that, with a bit of luck, the Tuscans will become a private series run by/for the drivers. I don't agree with NS decision to get out (on the grounds that the savings are so minimal and the benefits are likely to be equally small initially). On the other hand - it's his ball and if he wants to take it away there's precious little I/we can do to stop him.
That was one of the things that was discussed actually. Budgets vary enormously but there is a desire amongst the drivers to do a better job of revealing how much it really costs to run a car. i.e. it's not as expensive as many people think (assuming you don't crash 
).
One of the drivers will be able to elaborate but the two of the major costs at the moment are tyres and entry fees. There's scope to reduce entry fees depending on the format.
). One of the drivers will be able to elaborate but the two of the major costs at the moment are tyres and entry fees. There's scope to reduce entry fees depending on the format.
Precisely Ted.
But Ed, I was actually referring to the cash required to
a) put the series on the GT calendar; and
b) get it on TV.
The combination of those costs is probably much the same as running 2 cars (for a whole season) at the moment - which seemed very cheap to me.
A proper effort with 2 GT cars is each week going to cost the much the same as running a single Tuscan for a season.
But Ed, I was actually referring to the cash required to
a) put the series on the GT calendar; and
b) get it on TV.
The combination of those costs is probably much the same as running 2 cars (for a whole season) at the moment - which seemed very cheap to me.
A proper effort with 2 GT cars is each week going to cost the much the same as running a single Tuscan for a season.
manek said:Think the DB9 was being driven by Jason Barlow (ex Driven) who was driving a VW Beetle in the VW Racing cup. There was a fully loaded light blue Subaru WRX parked outside the TVR hospitality tent on Sunday - not sure who that belonged to but they have a good taste in music
I wonder if NS was in the DB9 I saw someone roll up to the front gate in, around 0950 yesterday. He looked very young to own a motor like that (or maybe it's just envy).
(Lynard Skynnard}PetrolTed said:When I looked into doing it last year, costs were still what I'd class as expensive (minimum £35k+ for the season if I remember correctly), even if you did some of the prep work yourself. Then again, this is a top level series, so that kind of cost isn't entirely surprising, plus you've got the benefit of TV coverage to help get sponsorship.
That was one of the things that was discussed actually. Budgets vary enormously but there is a desire amongst the drivers to do a better job of revealing how much it really costs to run a car. i.e. it's not as expensive as many people think (assuming you don't crash
One of the drivers will be able to elaborate but the two of the major costs at the moment are tyres and entry fees. There's scope to reduce entry fees depending on the format.
V8 Archie said:At least with GT cars you get two drivers to share the cost.
Precisely Ted.
But Ed, I was actually referring to the cash required to
a) put the series on the GT calendar; and
b) get it on TV.
The combination of those costs is probably much the same as running 2 cars (for a whole season) at the moment - which seemed very cheap to me.
A proper effort with 2 GT cars is each week going to cost the much the same as running a single Tuscan for a season.
I don't think a season in British GT (per driver) would be much different than a season in Tuscans, which probably explains why so many Tuscan drivers have gone to GTs.
I reckon these figures are about right
Car, capitalised or rented..............£500 plus/-vat
Engine lease @10 race meetings..........£700 plus vat
entry fees .............................£400 plus vat
tyres (if new per race).................£616 plus vat
Fuel/oils/etc ..........................£60 plus vat
transport/fuel/accom....................£100 plus vat
spares/repairs/ware and tear(min).......£200 plus vat
Insurance/ accident repair fund.........£500(min)
£3076-00+vat where applicable. Now it can be done cheaper, but one has to cut corners, but the entry fees and engine lease take care of £1100 plus vat before you start and if you don't keep your car in good condition you will pay for it somewhere down the line both in reliability or safety and hard cash, at the very best it's £1.5k/ £2k per race weekend average.
That's per car, or driver for 30mins of qually and two 20min races.
Cup class GT can be done for £5/6K per car,maybe not a race winner,that will cost a touch more, but still great fun, with two drivers taking half the costs each. You get at least two hours Qually,plus 2x one hour races, that's two hours each track time for much the same price as just over a hour in Tuscans.
Car, capitalised or rented..............£500 plus/-vat
Engine lease @10 race meetings..........£700 plus vat
entry fees .............................£400 plus vat
tyres (if new per race).................£616 plus vat
Fuel/oils/etc ..........................£60 plus vat
transport/fuel/accom....................£100 plus vat
spares/repairs/ware and tear(min).......£200 plus vat
Insurance/ accident repair fund.........£500(min)
£3076-00+vat where applicable. Now it can be done cheaper, but one has to cut corners, but the entry fees and engine lease take care of £1100 plus vat before you start and if you don't keep your car in good condition you will pay for it somewhere down the line both in reliability or safety and hard cash, at the very best it's £1.5k/ £2k per race weekend average.
That's per car, or driver for 30mins of qually and two 20min races.
Cup class GT can be done for £5/6K per car,maybe not a race winner,that will cost a touch more, but still great fun, with two drivers taking half the costs each. You get at least two hours Qually,plus 2x one hour races, that's two hours each track time for much the same price as just over a hour in Tuscans.
But it sounds like the TV coverage is likely to cost as much as the track-time for the series!The subject of the TV coverage has come up! Will Richard Hay be there next year? Will PRW be there and what of Ben. Will the factory be running cars as they have in the past? I think to keep the enjoyment; the costs outlined by No 29 need to come down. otherwise we all might be better doing the "Days of Thunder" series or the Ginetta Championship.
PetrolTed said:
No factory team next year.
PW said he'd consider racing but wouldn't commit at this stage.
That really is a nail in the coffin IMHO.
Very sad to see the factory turn its back on the challenge without providing an alternative. Honestly can't see that in the great scheme of things it costs them a disproportionate amount of money when offset against the PR, the feel good factor and racing association for marque owners.
It has served as a test bed for the AJP8 perhaps the opportunity was missed to do the same for the Speed6. Not too late IMHO though.
Harry
Personally I think we'd all be a lot better off without a load of speculation at this stage.
Yes, TVR will not run the series next year. However they will still provide engines and spares support. Its disappointing, but not entirely surprising.
If a similar level of championship sponsorship can be obtained for 2005 as there was for 2004 then the Tuscans could run as they do now, with the GT package and with TV coverage.
One of the main issues remains how to attract more drivers and cars to the series. However if a major sponsor can be attracted for the series as a whole then we can reduce entry fees substantially and possibly also subsidise engine leases. If the engine lease cost £500 and entry fees £150 per weekend then the only other main cost is tyres - and they can be made to last 2 rounds. With those sorts of costs it should be possible to do a season for £30k. Frankly that's not a lot for 160mph+ race cars.
I'd also ask those people who were lurking at the back of yesterday's driver/team meeting to respect the confidence of that meeting. It does no good at all for rumours and speculation to be spread.
What the teams and drivers need is a little time to consider the position and decide how to proceed.
There are some not inconsiderable hurdles to overcome, but leave it be for now.......
Yes, TVR will not run the series next year. However they will still provide engines and spares support. Its disappointing, but not entirely surprising.
If a similar level of championship sponsorship can be obtained for 2005 as there was for 2004 then the Tuscans could run as they do now, with the GT package and with TV coverage.
One of the main issues remains how to attract more drivers and cars to the series. However if a major sponsor can be attracted for the series as a whole then we can reduce entry fees substantially and possibly also subsidise engine leases. If the engine lease cost £500 and entry fees £150 per weekend then the only other main cost is tyres - and they can be made to last 2 rounds. With those sorts of costs it should be possible to do a season for £30k. Frankly that's not a lot for 160mph+ race cars.
I'd also ask those people who were lurking at the back of yesterday's driver/team meeting to respect the confidence of that meeting. It does no good at all for rumours and speculation to be spread.
What the teams and drivers need is a little time to consider the position and decide how to proceed.
There are some not inconsiderable hurdles to overcome, but leave it be for now.......
Andy, The BRSCC created a great series in the Super Coupe Cup for old one make saloons. I think the best cause of action for the Tuscans is run them in the TVRCC series alongside the Tasmins and the Griff 500's. This will create a full grid and good entertainment. Without the factory support it is going to be difficult to stay where we are at the moment.
People want to see full grids not just 10 to 12 cars.
People want to see full grids not just 10 to 12 cars.
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