Ecclestone final no to British Grand Prix
Discussion
Bernie's biting the hand that feeds him. Silverstone is different to all other circuits in the world. Reason being: 90% of all the F1 teams are situated within an hour of Silverstone - the area is the capital of the world with relation to motorsport. If the industry starts to decline in the area it could impact on the motorsport sector in general terms. Ultimately this could affect Bernie's business model. I reckon Bernie's biggest error was not cheesing off the UK punters, but a simple bad business judgement.
Ribol said:
And you believe that do you? This is all free advertising trying to drum up a bit of interest in what can only be described as a high tech replay of an average M25 journey.
Rest assured a final bid led by someone like Nigel Mansell/Jackie Stewart will manage to salvage negotiations just minutes before an imaginary deadline - more free advertising.
Ivan
I thinkyou might be on to something there matey.
I have to say tho' that I sincerely hope F1 does FO from these shores and the TV too, to be replaced by more coverage of GT's and the like.
andy_b said:
BRDC need to walk away from it really, or risk distorying British Motorsports all the way down to a grass routes level. No more racing school, no more club events. This from the Times earlier this month (I hope that this latest offer doesnt include Bernie to take SS)
the attached article from today's Times supports the argument that that I made on Saturday that under Bernie's offer he gets the track, including the BRDC clubhouse, for free. The BRDC members loose their access to the track and their clubhouse AND get to pay for the improvements.
from the Times article:
Ecclestone told the BRDC he will promote the race but only if he is allowed free use of Silverstone ALL YEAR without paying rent, while he will expect them to carry out a scheduled £150 million worth of improvements.
To rub it in, he also told them that they would be allowed the use of their clubhouse but only for the grand prix weekend. He would allow them 500 tickets, though, to enter the circuit they own. To say that BRDC officials were incredulous would be an understatement as they digested an offer that would mean Ecclestone taking not only all television and advertising income, as well as revenue from the Paddock Club — as he does now — but also the gate money.
complete article available at: www.timesonline.co.uk/articl...1303248,00.html
I was under the impression that extortion and blackmail were illegal in this country...
well blackmail wasnt when Bernie paid Blair a $1m 
anyway, thats the deal on the table (or was), so its upoto BRDC if they took it. Glad they didn't, it would kill UK Motorsport.
also, Brand Synergey the consortium headed by Mr Mansell, now appears to have been a smoke screen put up by a certain Bernard Ecclestone!
>> Edited by andy_b on Wednesday 20th October 09:42
anyway, thats the deal on the table (or was), so its upoto BRDC if they took it. Glad they didn't, it would kill UK Motorsport.
also, Brand Synergey the consortium headed by Mr Mansell, now appears to have been a smoke screen put up by a certain Bernard Ecclestone!
>> Edited by andy_b on Wednesday 20th October 09:42
Ribol said:
And you believe that do you? This is all free advertising trying to drum up a bit of interest in what can only be described as a high tech replay of an average M25 journey.
Rest assured a final bid led by someone like Nigel Mansell/Jackie Stewart will manage to salvage negotiations just minutes before an imaginary deadline - more free advertising.
Ivan
...so that will be why lots of the British teams are 1) cacking themselves as British GP is a big sponsorship earner for them 2) lots of meetings with Bernie to try and help out.
btw - no joint Mansell/Stewart thing yet. Mansell (Brand Synergy) has been very quiet, and now believe to be a BE smoke screen (I hope not).
andy_b said:
Problem is many people forget that Ecclestone helped save F1 at the tale end of the 70's and helped (with Max Mosley)sort out the Concorde Agreement then. I believe he also Financed all this.
So, he took an opportuinity then, and it was a very risky one and has been laughing all the way to the bank ever since.
.....and to think he's a member of the BRDC too
>> Edited by andy_b on Wednesday 20th October 09:07
Exactly, they (the teams) all had the chance in the 70's to get in on the act, he offered them all a slice of the cake, but they didn't want to take a risk and now he's reaping the rewards. Tough. You reap what you sow....
I agree that some of his T&C's maybe a tad restricitive, but you know what, if you had worked your balls off and put your money on the line would you strike deals with people that they could weasel out of......I doubt it.
srebbe64 said:
If the industry starts to decline in the area it could impact on the motorsport sector in general terms. Ultimately this could affect Bernie's business model.
Ah, no... the biggest impact will be the massive withdrawl of sponsorship from a number of key team sponsors who now won't have a British GP to promote in. Vodafone I know are one company that has delayed in signing an extention of their contract with Farrari until the outcome of the British GP was known. That will be the death of the tour from the bottom up.
Unless a load of Russian millionaires buy themselves a team each.
Not only are his Terms and Conditions retrictive, many of them atre probably illegal. They are definitely anti-competitive. In the US they would not be allowed because of that countries extensive anti-trust legislation. Because F1 operates in the international arena, many of BE's deals are made with companies registered in weird and wonderful locations which are hard to pin down when it comes time for them to be challenged.
Essentially, it is criminal that one man has ended up with so much power in one area of economic activity.
Essentially, it is criminal that one man has ended up with so much power in one area of economic activity.
andy_b said:
...so that will be why lots of the British teams are 1) cacking themselves as British GP is a big sponsorship earner for them 2) lots of meetings with Bernie to try and help out.
btw - no joint Mansell/Stewart thing yet. Mansell (Brand Synergy) has been very quiet, and now believe to be a BE smoke screen (I hope not).
I don't know any team owners personally so I cannot comment on whether they are cacking themselves or not. Lots of meetings is exactly what Bernie wants, lots of F1 talk all over the place, and guess what, when Bernie has milked it for as much as he can the race will be on again. Not saying it would be a joint thing with Mansell and Stewart BTW, saying there would be one british hero appointed - better for more free publicity.
As a motor racing enthusiast of old I would rather watch touring cars any day. The reason they have been put on to the back burner is money, and that is what this is all about - not motor racing.
Ivan
Why have we heard almost no public challenge to the Government's obdurate refusal to make the minor contribution that would keep the race in Britain? Of all the nations that subsidise their own GPs, Britain must be the wealthiest. Even if Britain were the poorest, motorsport pumps billions into the British economy every year - the Government's slice of that must be hundreds of times what it would need to pay to retain the GP.
It's nice that Red Ken and his lefty pals are prepared to squander hundreds of millions in order to induce the Olympics to come to London and enable the British to view first-hand the thrilling dramas of target-shooting and the spine-tingling excitement of synchronised swimming. How sad that the Government won't lift a finger to support the premier event of the one and only sport in which Britain is the world's best.
The greed of Ecclestone neatly encapsulates all that is wrong with F1 racing.
I stopped any interest in F1 when it went off BBC TV. 'Murray on a Sunday' was classic viewing, uninterrupted by adverts. Now it's utter crap.
The arrogant little Ecclestone's bluff must be called. Time to stand up to blackmail and anti-competitive practices.
>> Edited by nickwilcock on Wednesday 20th October 10:44
I stopped any interest in F1 when it went off BBC TV. 'Murray on a Sunday' was classic viewing, uninterrupted by adverts. Now it's utter crap.
The arrogant little Ecclestone's bluff must be called. Time to stand up to blackmail and anti-competitive practices.
>> Edited by nickwilcock on Wednesday 20th October 10:44
. Eric Mc said:I can't see how that could work from a legal point of view, and it obviously doesn't apply to Indy or NASCAR as they have rounds in Canada I believe.
Do you know, for instance, that ALL racing series which are held across national boundries MUST be registered with the FIA?
I still can't find it within myself to give a monkey's chuff about the British GP.
Every other motor racing series in the world has ups and downs (BTCC, Indy vs Champ, GTs, World Superbikes vs MotoGP etc etc). For the last few years, F1 has avoided this due to Ecclestone's tight control and the self-interest of the existing teams.
But Ecclestone won't be around forever, the small teams are all going bust, the "racing" has been tedious for YEARS, and who's going to spend their time in future watching 14 cars go round some sterile piece reclaimed desert in a procession as the TV pundits desperately try to make it soudn interesting.
Sometime in the next couple of years it'll all go horribly wrong and something better will eventually emerge.
This is something I have been pondering recently.
F1 strikes me as being on deaths door. Declining viewing figures and interest are the primary reasons (along with tobacco advertising, but thats a whole different subject), as well as waning interest from the manufacturers. Bernie is desperately trying to shore up his empire by opening up the Asian subcontinent - is that the right business model?
A1 GP isn't going to be a serious challenge - nor do they strike me as wanting to (a crying shame).
What (if anything) is to stop a new race series to seriously challenge F1?
If someone had the funding and determination to get a series off the ground, now strikes me as being about the ideal time to do it.
What would be needed?:
Racing in much of the world as per F1, with a european focus, utilising all the major circuits.
Proper cars (I think we all have an idea what this means) and proper regulation to ensure one team don't make it snoozeville.
Poaching a couple of top class drivers to help generate the public interest - schumi, in 2 years anyone?
Maybe a gimmick or two thrown in to encourage teams to participate (1m$ a race prize money??)
some top class lawyers (probably most importantly).
I don't think F1 Administration could stand up to a properly mounted legal challenge on the basis of anti competitive practices - It's high time somebody took Mr Ecclestone down a peg or two. Theres no other business arena in the western hemisphere employing his operational style that haven't been taken down at some point on the basis of monopoly.
Clearly this will all take a LOT of money. But say a group / individual had the finacial wherewithal to do it, would it be a winner bearing in mind what's on offer to motorsport fans at the moment?
>> Edited by dds1 on Wednesday 20th October 11:53
F1 strikes me as being on deaths door. Declining viewing figures and interest are the primary reasons (along with tobacco advertising, but thats a whole different subject), as well as waning interest from the manufacturers. Bernie is desperately trying to shore up his empire by opening up the Asian subcontinent - is that the right business model?
A1 GP isn't going to be a serious challenge - nor do they strike me as wanting to (a crying shame).
What (if anything) is to stop a new race series to seriously challenge F1?
If someone had the funding and determination to get a series off the ground, now strikes me as being about the ideal time to do it.
What would be needed?:
Racing in much of the world as per F1, with a european focus, utilising all the major circuits.
Proper cars (I think we all have an idea what this means) and proper regulation to ensure one team don't make it snoozeville.
Poaching a couple of top class drivers to help generate the public interest - schumi, in 2 years anyone?
Maybe a gimmick or two thrown in to encourage teams to participate (1m$ a race prize money??)
some top class lawyers (probably most importantly).
I don't think F1 Administration could stand up to a properly mounted legal challenge on the basis of anti competitive practices - It's high time somebody took Mr Ecclestone down a peg or two. Theres no other business arena in the western hemisphere employing his operational style that haven't been taken down at some point on the basis of monopoly.
Clearly this will all take a LOT of money. But say a group / individual had the finacial wherewithal to do it, would it be a winner bearing in mind what's on offer to motorsport fans at the moment?
>> Edited by dds1 on Wednesday 20th October 11:53
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