Formula E - Am I The Only One Excited?

[Rude-boy]

Season two is now under way with a greater technological leap than the F1 V8 to V6 changes.

As usual the Luddites will be out in force again this year bemoaning the lack of noise, the lack of F1 Tilkedromes and that it is a technology driven series in it's infancy.

As for the car swapping, well that is still with us for another few years but by then the battery technology will have caught up to enable those to become a thing of the past.

I really do think that some of those that criticize FE should look back to the earliest days of car racing - hell at one time they had to have a mechanic riding with them, what a load of pants that was - surely that sport will never take off. Oh, hang on, it matured didn't it?

Some would also do well to remember the issues Honda is having with it's KERS - you know that small little garage operation running a bigger budget for an engine than the whole of FE...

[TartanPaint]

Glad to see it surviving.

Edit: Did anyone make it to the London race? How was it?

Edited by TartanPaint on Wednesday 28th October 11:46

[LongQ]

TartanPaint said:

Glad to see it surviving.

Edit: Did anyone make it to the London race? How was it?

Edited by TartanPaint on Wednesday 28th October 11:46

"Surviving" is an interesting choice of word.

This is a bandwagon with a large budget and a lot of high level support to take its underlying "Green" message around the world.

Survival, in one form or another as the years pass, is unlikely to be much of an issue unless WW3 breaks out or the planet is hit by a very large asteroid.


How much resource it sucks from other forms of racing is another matter. I doubt that anyone who takes to it long term will know or care.

[CraigyMc]

Rude-boy said:

As usual the Luddites will be out in force again this year bemoaning the lack of noise

Also non-luddite brainiac engineer types bemoan the lack of noise, because there's a lack of noise.

[Rude-boy]

CraigyMc said:

Rude-boy said:

As usual the Luddites will be out in force again this year bemoaning the lack of noise

Also non-luddite brainiac engineer types bemoan the lack of noise, because there's a lack of noise.

Of all the 'negatives' one of the few bits I have some sympathy with is the lack of noise. I remember the days I could lie in my tent on Houx and tell you what part of the track the Panoz was at that time. But those days are now going and gone.

I will not deny that I would like to hear more noise, but it is not in the nature of the beast and also it is something that would detract from the ability to run the cars in the places they do.

What i have found over the years though is that, a bit like a deaf person might be a load more observant than one with all 5 senses, i have started to pick up on things that the noise of a car has always masked from my senses. Take an LMP1 leaving the Ford chicane. It wasn't until a few years ago that i studied what i was seeing as the power went down. I had lost the noise but suddenly i could see, and almost feel, the violence of all that power and torque literally try to rip the track up as they lay the power down - a sensation i have never experienced with the noise in tow and one i just don't get with the LMP2's and LMP1 p's .

Yes you have lost on the swings, but as ever look out for what you are gaining.

[anonymous-user]

Rude-boy said:

CraigyMc said:

Rude-boy said:

As usual the Luddites will be out in force again this year bemoaning the lack of noise

Also non-luddite brainiac engineer types bemoan the lack of noise, because there's a lack of noise.

Of all the 'negatives' one of the few bits I have some sympathy with is the lack of noise. I remember the days I could lie in my tent on Houx and tell you what part of the track the Panoz was at that time. But those days are now going and gone.

I will not deny that I would like to hear more noise, but it is not in the nature of the beast and also it is something that would detract from the ability to run the cars in the places they do.

What i have found over the years though is that, a bit like a deaf person might be a load more observant than one with all 5 senses, i have started to pick up on things that the noise of a car has always masked from my senses. Take an LMP1 leaving the Ford chicane. It wasn't until a few years ago that i studied what i was seeing as the power went down. I had lost the noise but suddenly i could see, and almost feel, the violence of all that power and torque literally try to rip the track up as they lay the power down - a sensation i have never experienced with the noise in tow and one i just don't get with the LMP2's and LMP1 p's .

Yes you have lost on the swings, but as ever look out for what you are gaining.

Go on then, what are we gaining with FE?

I doubt we'll see FE exhibiting the "violence of all that power and torque literally try to rip the track up as they lay the power down" in the foreseeable future............

[mcdjl]

REALIST123 said:

Go on then, what are we gaining with FE?

I doubt we'll see FE exhibiting the "violence of all that power and torque literally try to rip the track up as they lay the power down" in the foreseeable future............

Once upon a time there was the first car race. All the spectators stood there and said "that wasn't very exciting. They didn't even get past the bloke with the red flag. you couldn't see the muscle strain and sweat like you can with the horse, nor did the ground shake. This modern car racing will never get anywhere, the horse will always be faster and more exciting".
Well ok maybe since the first landspeed record was set by an electric car I might be exaggerating slightly but given that battery technology has changed more in the last 10 years or so than the previous 100 with more looking like its in the pipeline, I think you could be wrong. I grant you theres someway to go before they're F1 fast but they could be worse: laptimes

[fomb]

TartanPaint said:

Glad to see it surviving.

Edit: Did anyone make it to the London race? How was it?

Edited by TartanPaint on Wednesday 28th October 11:46

I went and was dissapointed. Yes, we go real close to the track being maybe ten feet away, but we could see nothing as the track was lined with concrete blocks taller than the cars themselves. Aside from that, it was Battersea Park on a busy day. Commentary or something on a PA would have helped, all we knew were some cars were going past and a race was happening.

[anonymous-user]

mcdjl said:

REALIST123 said:

Go on then, what are we gaining with FE?

I doubt we'll see FE exhibiting the "violence of all that power and torque literally try to rip the track up as they lay the power down" in the foreseeable future............

Once upon a time there was the first car race. All the spectators stood there and said "that wasn't very exciting. They didn't even get past the bloke with the red flag. you couldn't see the muscle strain and sweat like you can with the horse, nor did the ground shake. This modern car racing will never get anywhere, the horse will always be faster and more exciting".
Well ok maybe since the first landspeed record was set by an electric car I might be exaggerating slightly but given that battery technology has changed more in the last 10 years or so than the previous 100 with more looking like its in the pipeline, I think you could be wrong. I grant you theres someway to go before they're F1 fast but they could be worse: laptimes

I can't argue with your historical summary, though it's not what I've read. Perhaps you were there?

And don't get me wrong, as others have done, I'm not against progress, or electrical vehicles. I'm actually considering a Tesla S as a replacement for my 5 series.

However, despite there already being better technology, the FIA appear to be trying to foist upon us a Formula that simply does not compare with any reasonable level of single seater motorsport. The cars are not really comparable with even FF, or whatever it's called these days, because though the maximum power is similar, and maybe even a lap time could be similar, the FE just aren't capable of running at full power for anything like a reasonable time.

It all very well saying they're going to develop but they haven't even taken the latest available technology for FE, so I'm not sure that the aim is to be that cutting edge, more just a matter of having an electric formula for PC or other reasons.

How can a series that isn't capable of racing on traditional circuits, demands constant lift and coast from lap one, even on the contrived 'tracks' and even the ridiculous spectacle of swapping cars half way through, deserve respect from traditional motorsport fans? It just isn't comparable IMO.

We were promised a big leap forward this year but it hasn't happened. Transmissions have changed but there was no noticeable difference on track. On that basis, I stand by my assertion that it will be a long time before we're marvelling at the 'violence' of their power.

In all honesty, it wouldn't surprise me if FE is taken off in a different direction altogether before it ever develops significantly in itself. That would fit well into the FIA's normal modus operandi, and again leave others to cope with the legacy of their wasted investment, and useless cars. I hope I'm wrong, we'll see.

[AnotherClarkey]

REALIST123 said:

How can a series that isn't capable of racing on traditional circuits, demands constant lift and coast from lap one, even on the contrived 'tracks' and even the ridiculous spectacle of swapping cars half way through, deserve respect from traditional motorsport fans? It just isn't comparable IMO.

I suspect that 'traditional motorsport fans' may be something of a dying breed. I am not sure if Formula E really cares whether they think it is a ridiculous spectacle or not.

[mcdjl]

REALIST123 said:

I can't argue with your historical summary, though it's not what I've read. Perhaps you were there?

And don't get me wrong, as others have done, I'm not against progress, or electrical vehicles. I'm actually considering a Tesla S as a replacement for my 5 series.

However, despite there already being better technology, the FIA appear to be trying to foist upon us a Formula that simply does not compare with any reasonable level of single seater motorsport. The cars are not really comparable with even FF, or whatever it's called these days, because though the maximum power is similar, and maybe even a lap time could be similar, the FE just aren't capable of running at full power for anything like a reasonable time.

It all very well saying they're going to develop but they haven't even taken the latest available technology for FE, so I'm not sure that the aim is to be that cutting edge, more just a matter of having an electric formula for PC or other reasons.

How can a series that isn't capable of racing on traditional circuits, demands constant lift and coast from lap one, even on the contrived 'tracks' and even the ridiculous spectacle of swapping cars half way through, deserve respect from traditional motorsport fans? It just isn't comparable IMO.

We were promised a big leap forward this year but it hasn't happened. Transmissions have changed but there was no noticeable difference on track. On that basis, I stand by my assertion that it will be a long time before we're marvelling at the 'violence' of their power.

In all honesty, it wouldn't surprise me if FE is taken off in a different direction altogether before it ever develops significantly in itself. That would fit well into the FIA's normal modus operandi, and again leave others to cope with the legacy of their wasted investment, and useless cars. I hope I'm wrong, we'll see.

FE will undoubtedly evolve, however given the backers of some of the teams I wouldn't expect too many individuals to lose money.
In terms of the race duration even the half race distance each car does is longer time wise than most UK club races. They're just limited on how much energy they can carry by size and weight at the moment. Hopefully they'll be getting new batteries to reduce coasting and increase speed soon, it is designed to evolve away from the one make start point after all.

[coppice]

AnotherClarkey said:

REALIST123 said:

How can a series that isn't capable of racing on traditional circuits, demands constant lift and coast from lap one, even on the contrived 'tracks' and even the ridiculous spectacle of swapping cars half way through, deserve respect from traditional motorsport fans? It just isn't comparable IMO.

I suspect that 'traditional motorsport fans' may be something of a dying breed. I am not sure if Formula E really cares whether they think it is a ridiculous spectacle or not.

Motor racing is and should be a broad church - I don't see any issue with Formula E at all and most of the dislike is , I suspect , motivated simply by a rigid , knee jerk aversion to anything without a petrol IC engine. 25 years ago we'd have laughed at diesel powered Le Mans victories or hybrid power of any sort, let alone in F1 . The sport needs new disciplines to survive- I don't know how many people on here actually attend live motor sport - I do, a lot and whilst I am over 60 I don't feel older than most of the crowd. That's why stuff like Time Attack and Formula E are so important - they attract a much younger audience . I may prefer to listen to a DFV or a Chevy V8 than a near silent racer but I don't want only to live in the past either....

[Rude-boy]

coppice said:

Motor racing is and should be a broad church - I don't see any issue with Formula E at all and most of the dislike is , I suspect , motivated simply by a rigid , knee jerk aversion to anything without a petrol IC engine. 25 years ago we'd have laughed at diesel powered Le Mans victories or hybrid power of any sort, let alone in F1 . The sport needs new disciplines to survive- I don't know how many people on here actually attend live motor sport - I do, a lot and whilst I am over 60 I don't feel older than most of the crowd. That's why stuff like Time Attack and Formula E are so important - they attract a much younger audience . I may prefer to listen to a DFV or a Chevy V8 than a near silent racer but I don't want only to live in the past either....

Well said.

On the other side of the coin i was at the Gymkhana Grid at Santa Pod the other day and it was a great motorsport event, miles from my usual series. Enjoyed it so much i might well consider going to similar again, even if that time i am not being paid to be there!

An interesting observation about the age of people attending motorsport and competing in it. There is a bit of an 'ageing population' about it all but to be honest i see that as cyclical. I remember in the mid 90's the BRDC worrying that all the Zeppelin pilots were dying off and that they were short of members. Now it's beating of perspective members with a stty stick.

I remember the Nasamax diesel at LM and there were quite a few who should know better who were very quick to belittle it. Hell the team even had to buy a Tourag to get the engine as VW was not prepared to take one off the line for them. Added to those naysayers though was a group which grew over the week saying "You laugh now, within 10 years you'll need a diesel to win here..."

I love my big loud and noisy cars, hearing the Hoonicorn was almost as good as seeing KB do his thing in it, but I love my sport more and I see FE as something that will not only drive the sport forwards but also something that will bring it to people who usually only talk about football.

[anonymous-user]

Anyone watch the race this morning? Was absolutely crazy.

Once you get passed the noise issue there is alot of fun to be had watching Formula E.

[AnotherClarkey]

tux said:

Anyone watch the race this morning? Was absolutely crazy.

Once you get passed the noise issue there is alot of fun to be had watching Formula E.

Yes, a good race to watch. There is almost something old fashioned about how the drivers have to manage the cars so much - brings a whole new level to the tactics and rewards thinking, smooth, drivers who can pick exactly the right moment to attack.

ITV even have a decent pundit now - Karun Chandhok brings a really good perspective and can speak naturally in front of camera.

[ajprice]

Ouch Mr Piquet Jr...

[williamp]

ajprice said:

Ouch Mr Piquet Jr...

Did that help his team mate??

[MG CHRIS]

Caught the race wasn't to bad more action than the last f1 race. Still a way to go but its certainly getting better.

[Allyc85]

I still can't get over that horrible high pitched noise, and the over sized karting tracks they race on...

[williamp]

Allyc85 said:

I still can't get over that horrible high pitched noise, and the over sized karting tracks they race on...

We went to see them at donington in the summer. Its odd to get used to: the speed is there, but no noise. You can hear the tyres, and the aero working the air. You can have a normal conversation as they speed by: odd for us die-hards, but my 5 year old loved it. Hes a real convert. The future as they say...