Ferrari and their Atitude
Discussion
What on earth do Ferrari want? Are they trying to totally eliminate the other teams in F1. Do they not CARE about the sport at all?
It seems that all the other teams were prepared to allow Minardi to race in Australia with last year's car. However, Ferrari have put their foot down (although Ferrari themselves are using a modified version of their 2004 car) and objected to Minardi's entry.
Paul Stoddart has now announced that Moinardi will not be racing in Melbourne.
Now we are down to 18 cars.
How low can we go?
It seems that all the other teams were prepared to allow Minardi to race in Australia with last year's car. However, Ferrari have put their foot down (although Ferrari themselves are using a modified version of their 2004 car) and objected to Minardi's entry.
Paul Stoddart has now announced that Moinardi will not be racing in Melbourne.
Now we are down to 18 cars.
How low can we go?
Ferrari's arrogrance is killing the sport. They think that F1 is nothing without them. What they need to realise is that they will be nothing without F1. Most team bosses have a healthy respect for F1 and care about the sport etc. deep down. Ferrari have always been a bit mercenary and often only raced if they had large "appearance fees". They are moving back to that attitude now they are fast again.
I would strongly support some public action against Ferrari at Melbourne. Their current stance (without knowing the full details) is appalling, mercenary and disingenous in the extreme.
I used to love Formula 1 - I now hope that there is some form of dramatic fall-out that can change the dismal non-spectacle it has become. Interesting to note that Maserati has been prevented from similar steamrolling by the ACO...
Power to the people - why don`t we all stop watching it?
I used to love Formula 1 - I now hope that there is some form of dramatic fall-out that can change the dismal non-spectacle it has become. Interesting to note that Maserati has been prevented from similar steamrolling by the ACO...
Power to the people - why don`t we all stop watching it?
It does seem no Ferrari have buddied up with wee Bernie that they think they can do anything. It is a disgrace. Minardi are not a danger to the big teams, but F1 needs them. Remember the late 80's early 90's with 40 cars going for 26 places. Now down to 18!
Ferrari need to remember the viewing public, we want to see good action, where sometimes the smaller teams get a break and get some points. Roll on the break away F1 series, with or with out Ferrari!
Ferrari need to remember the viewing public, we want to see good action, where sometimes the smaller teams get a break and get some points. Roll on the break away F1 series, with or with out Ferrari!
Eric Mc said:
What on earth do Ferrari want? Are they trying to totally eliminate the other teams in F1. Do they not CARE about the sport at all?
It seems that all the other teams were prepared to allow Minardi to race in Australia with last year's car. However, Ferrari have put their foot down (although Ferrari themselves are using a modified version of their 2004 car) and objected to Minardi's entry.
Paul Stoddart has now announced that Moinardi will not be racing in Melbourne.
Now we are down to 18 cars.
How low can we go?
i thought that minardi was going to be ok this weekend? my understanding was that all teams bar ferrari had ok'd his temp 2004 spec car but ferrari had not as yet but would sanction it this week. if ferrari does vote against minardi - well, that would be the final nail in their appalling PR coffin.
ferrari is summed up in one word - hubris.
i hope they get their red butt kicked this year.
their performance and that of schumacher is something to respect but they have zero humility and grace.
the ferrari era has to draw to a close sometime - everything is cyclical - let's hope we see some real racing this year.
much as i find all this rules tinkering utterly farcical, the changes this year SHOULD bode well for a closer championship.
ttfn
As reported by BBC:
"If the row is not resolved, Minardi's cars are likely to be declared illegal when they are presented for scrutineering by race officials on Thursday in Australia.
Stoddart would then be faced with the choice of making hurried last-minute changes to the cars - or taking his battle to a higher authority".
Seems to suggest that it's still possible for Stoddart to make the changes necessary to comply with scrutineering - just like Jordan has. So why doesn't Stoddart just get on with it and stop being a whinging aussie?
"If the row is not resolved, Minardi's cars are likely to be declared illegal when they are presented for scrutineering by race officials on Thursday in Australia.
Stoddart would then be faced with the choice of making hurried last-minute changes to the cars - or taking his battle to a higher authority".
Seems to suggest that it's still possible for Stoddart to make the changes necessary to comply with scrutineering - just like Jordan has. So why doesn't Stoddart just get on with it and stop being a whinging aussie?
hut49 said:
As reported by BBC:
"If the row is not resolved, Minardi's cars are likely to be declared illegal when they are presented for scrutineering by race officials on Thursday in Australia.
Stoddart would then be faced with the choice of making hurried last-minute changes to the cars - or taking his battle to a higher authority".
Seems to suggest that it's still possible for Stoddart to make the changes necessary to comply with scrutineering - just like Jordan has. So why doesn't Stoddart just get on with it and stop being a whinging aussie?
this is all very confusing - i was assuming he was just in forefeit of some of the more obscure changes - surely he could afford to fabricate a new front wing and rear wing, etc? if not, as he has been repeatedly told, he shouldn't be in f1. it's like a bottom of table premier football team moaning about the money required to stay in the premier - that's the system, tough.
my god, stoddart doesn't half moan - can't say i care for him much - he plays the underdog card way too much. i thought it was us poms who were supposed to "whinge"?! he makes mansell seem the epitome of discretion and stiff upper lip!
just weeks ago stoddart claimed his - and all other f1 bosses - were financially "happy bunnies" to quote him. with regard to new f1 payments deal.
he should make his mind up. focus on the job in hand (he seems to enjoy the politics and "fame" this platform gives him more than the racing) or get out.
same applies to ferrari, really.
shame there aren't more of the calibre of frank williams and patrick head.
I don't think you can just fabricate a piece of complex kit like a front or rear aerofoil over a weekend. These are very complicated devices and, what's more, can be lethal if incorrectly designed. I'm sure that there must be strength, impact and structural integrity tests that compnents like these have to pass.
In other words, nothing that can be done over a GP weekend.
In other words, nothing that can be done over a GP weekend.
Eric Mc said:
I don't think you can just fabricate a piece of complex kit like a front or rear aerofoil over a weekend. These are very complicated devices and, what's more, can be lethal if incorrectly designed. I'm sure that there must be strength, impact and structural integrity tests that compnents like these have to pass.
In other words, nothing that can be done over a GP weekend.
true - BUT - he's had several months to get them fabricated!
honestly, if he can't be focused/arsed to attend to relatively simple bits like that, he really is well and truly out of his league.
hut49 said:
They've had lots of weekends to get it sorted but thought they could whinge their way through - now they've left it too late because the Red guys up front didn't blink, whereas all the others did because they are trying to undermine the relationship between Ferrari and Bernie.
if that's the case he shouldn't be allowed to race this weekend.
The problem is that the new rules for 2005 were introduced late, and potentially were brought in according to the rules.
Therefore if Minardi are disqualified they could appeal, and may be allowed to race.
If they were successful in their appeal to the the sporting body then of course their car would be the only legal one in the race!
F1 needs the privateers as the manufacturers can drop out (like Ford have). Also the Manufacturers need people to lose!
So this row will almost certainly get resolved, but of course there are debates in F1 about the future, and this row is just part of that.
Therefore if Minardi are disqualified they could appeal, and may be allowed to race.
If they were successful in their appeal to the the sporting body then of course their car would be the only legal one in the race!
F1 needs the privateers as the manufacturers can drop out (like Ford have). Also the Manufacturers need people to lose!
So this row will almost certainly get resolved, but of course there are debates in F1 about the future, and this row is just part of that.
Eric Mc said:
The point is, the rules allow the Minardi AS IT IS to race, provided ALL the other teams allow it. ALL the other teams have allowed it, apart from Ferrari.
i fail to understand the logic from any perspective.
say it races in 2004 spec and as it transpires that means it performs a lot better than - eg - the jordan's in 2005 spec and through attrition a minardi finishes in the points but jordan gets zero points.
as we all know the arcan system in f1 means points are worth mega $$$$$s so does jordan then retrospectively have cause to claim "its" points and $$$$s were stolen by an illegal spec minardi?
f1 just keeps digging and digging its own grave.
have they never heard "when you're in a hole, stop digging!" ....
i guess that's why it's so fascinating-frustrating!?
hi ho.
Eric Mc said:
The point is, the rules allow the Minardi AS IT IS to race, provided ALL the other teams allow it. ALL the other teams have allowed it, apart from Ferrari.
Ferrari stand firm in Minardi row
Minardi's participation in Melbourne is in doubt
Ferrari are refusing to back down in a row with Minardi over allowing the lowly team to use last year's cars in the Australian Grand Prix.
Minardi say they have not been able to afford to comply with new rules aimed at slowing Formula One cars down.
They can race if all the other teams give their approval, and only Ferrari have refused their consent.
"I spoke to (Ferrari boss Jean) Todt during the night, but he wasn't supportive at all," Stoddart said.
Stoddart played down claims that the other teams could boycott the race in support of Minardi, but said he may now have to consider whether his team could take part.
The row is wrapped up in the ongoing political dispute over the future of F1, in which Ferrari are on one side and the nine other teams on the other.
Battle lines drawn in fight for F1
The row is about the distribution of F1's commercial rights revenues and the governance of the sport's rules by Max Mosley, president of governing body the FIA.
As part of it, several of the teams - including Minardi - believe that the new rules were imposed illegally.
Stoddart added: "Todt kept saying it's an FIA problem although Max Mosley has gone on the record and said if we got Ferrari's signature then we can race.
Stoddart (right) in discussion with F1 boss Bernie Ecclestone
"I tried to explain that to him rationally.
"I asked him to delegate the powers to some other member of Ferrari who was actually in Melbourne so we could at least have the discussion.
"He refused, and the phone call came to an end without a conclusion."
If the row is not resolved, Minardi's cars are likely to be declared illegal when they are presented for scrutineering by race officials on Thursday in Australia.
Stoddart would then be faced with the choice of making hurried last-minute changes to the cars - or taking his battle to a higher authority.
"As a last resort, and I mean last resort, there is always the option of the High Court to challenge the legality of the regulations," he said.
Team guide: Minardi
"But on this, the 10th anniversary of the Melbourne Grand Prix, I would not want to be the one to spoil the party."
Minardi have been saying for months they want to use an updated version of their 2004 model car for the first three races of the season in Australia, Malaysia and Bahrain.
They then plan to switch to their 2005 cars for the first European race in San Marino, Italy.
Minardi rev up for legal action
Ferrari and Jordan are also starting off the season with last year's cars but have made changes in accordance with the FIA regulations, which include extended engine mileage, limited tyre changes and restricted aerodynamics.
Stoddart said last month that he was confident he would in any court battle over F1's rules.
Eric Mc said:
The point is, the rules allow the Minardi AS IT IS to race, provided ALL the other teams allow it. ALL the other teams have allowed it, apart from Ferrari.
I must admit to having rosso tinted glasses when it comes to Ferrari's road cars but the more I hear about the race team and the politics and pressure put on the other teams by Ferrari, the more I'm starting to dislike the way they handle themselves. Minardi should be allowed to race. Hell it's not as though they're a threat and their car is dangerous.
Stoddart has been rocking the boat recently, Ferrari are happy with the status quo and their special relationship with the FIA and will do anything to defend it, whether it's good for the sport or not.
In fact denying Minardi the chance to race is pretty much a no lose situation for them. If Stoddart doesn't challenge the 2005 rules or his challenge fails, they've done some damage to the weakest GPWC aligned teams. Possibly damage they won't recover from. If his challenge suceeds, Ferrari go back to using their dominant 2004 car (or more importantly tyres), plus they get some benefit from the extra development that the modified 2004 car had over the winter.
In fact denying Minardi the chance to race is pretty much a no lose situation for them. If Stoddart doesn't challenge the 2005 rules or his challenge fails, they've done some damage to the weakest GPWC aligned teams. Possibly damage they won't recover from. If his challenge suceeds, Ferrari go back to using their dominant 2004 car (or more importantly tyres), plus they get some benefit from the extra development that the modified 2004 car had over the winter.
Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff