The 2017 Rallying thread
Discussion
Meeke admitting in the interview back in service park that "its just not good enough" and he means his form.
Many questions could be raised of if its the way he's driving an unmanageable car, as the first round at least showed the car was all over the place. Is he having to drive too hard to stay in it? Is it his attitude and over confidence. as others have said, when he's on it he's unbeatable. very much like his mentor Colin.
Subaru did it to Colin in bringing Nicky in and to a degree it worked. granted no titles came from it, but actually some spectacular offs, but he was close on a few occasions. I don't know who does Kris' gravel crew stuff. but Mikko has been in for both Breen and Ostberg recently, so there's plenty of experience out there for hire to call on.
The panic in Kris' voice after the off in this vid shows he knows hes on the ropes. Paul dithering about maybe cause it too. We don't see the off but he certainly didn't look out of control in the 2 corners. looks like clipping the bank rolled them into the wall causing the damage - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOBgHlSOQMI
Kris' comments - I was in fourth gear. The road was rough, I touched the right-rear on a bank and it just spat us over onto the roof. Simple as that. Up to that point everything felt good. I was settled, it felt okay, I wasn't trying to do anything silly. But yes, that's the way it is - not good enough. We'll see if we can get it back out. Not good.
Many questions could be raised of if its the way he's driving an unmanageable car, as the first round at least showed the car was all over the place. Is he having to drive too hard to stay in it? Is it his attitude and over confidence. as others have said, when he's on it he's unbeatable. very much like his mentor Colin.
Subaru did it to Colin in bringing Nicky in and to a degree it worked. granted no titles came from it, but actually some spectacular offs, but he was close on a few occasions. I don't know who does Kris' gravel crew stuff. but Mikko has been in for both Breen and Ostberg recently, so there's plenty of experience out there for hire to call on.
The panic in Kris' voice after the off in this vid shows he knows hes on the ropes. Paul dithering about maybe cause it too. We don't see the off but he certainly didn't look out of control in the 2 corners. looks like clipping the bank rolled them into the wall causing the damage - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOBgHlSOQMI
Kris' comments - I was in fourth gear. The road was rough, I touched the right-rear on a bank and it just spat us over onto the roof. Simple as that. Up to that point everything felt good. I was settled, it felt okay, I wasn't trying to do anything silly. But yes, that's the way it is - not good enough. We'll see if we can get it back out. Not good.
Jerry Can said:
Having reviewed the on board it really was the most innocuous crash. A wheel slightly wide and over she went. I also viewed terry nevilles onboard and I reckon he was a different line through the same corner
It was massively innocuous, but also unforgivable given his task was to just finish the rally. And to do it the stage after Breen retired makes it even more stupid really. Apparently Mikkelsen has said that the C3 is much more tail happy than the 2017 Polo, but even with that in mind a top driver won't make as many mistakes as Kris has this year.Gutted as I've supported Kris through the many, many crashes through the years, but I'm pretty bored of it now.
Not totally surprising news - I still find it disappointing. Yes, he's made mistakes - but he's not helped by the car having major issues. Finishing 5,6,7th place is of no use to Citroen as they'll learn nothing. He's the only Citroen driver to show rally winning pace. What will Lefebvre offer? Lower Top 10 pace - if he doesn't bin it. Mikkelsen is still getting to know the car, and wasn't exactly ripping it up in Sardinia.
However, if Kris comes back in Finland refreshed and performs well; then it was the right decision.
However, if Kris comes back in Finland refreshed and performs well; then it was the right decision.
I wonder where meeke will be next year its not looking good at all at the moment I was really hopeing for big things this year I don't understand how he's complaining so much about the car yet his team mates love it I can see him going to rally cross like petter solberg can't see any teams wanting him after all this.
gutted for Meeke. not only for the heat he seems to be getting as "chief tester" so if anything is wrong with the car then they are saying he's known about it from the start or is responsible for it. I don't see it like that.
They can test the C3 as much as they like, the trouble with testing however is its done over the same stretch of road for hours on end. it lacks the changes a live and competitive stage will give. it also lacks the competition of other drivers fighting for places, this is something that cant be replicated on a test. So maybe the car performed well in testing but under competition failures and flaws are highlighted, yet nothing seems to be done about it other than blame Meeke for having to push the car!?
In the hands of Lefebvre it certainly looks stable. but he lacks the ability to push it to front of the pack pace like Kris, Craig Breen hasn't exactly been quiet in the car when its been going wrong. In Sweden both he and Kris said it was undriveable.
there is something wrong with the suspension set up for me, maybe its because its and in house system so they've missed something fundamental? Craig has had 2 instances of smashing the sump as the car sits so low. this is visible when comparing vids of the C3 in testing for Poland with the Fiesta/Yaris & i20.
There's massive amount of gap in the arches of the C3 but it still looks like its in tarmac height, the fiesta has clear daylight between it and the ground. it seems to squat more than the other 2017 cars under acceleration, and one vid of Craig launching on a clean track had it squirming quite badly.
Maybe its down to different driver set ups and Kris' choices mean that even the little incidents he has result in big failures.
I'd be interested to see what Andreas really has to say about the car, but we're not going to know until things go south between him and Citroen, if they do.
Here's hoping this break gives Kris the focus he needs to return to form, right now tho he's on a knife edge for form when he comes back, if he comes back and nothign changes I think he'll be gone by the end of the season, however if he comes back and simply drives to get the car through events and to the end of stages then he'll be gone for the '18 season for under performing. Matton seems to want Kris to be his next Loeb, but they couldn't be any different so he needs to trust in Kris, he could take a leaf out of Malcolm Wilsons book with the way he handled his drivers over the years. all the times JML etc binned a Focus/Fiesta and MW never demoted them, no doubt tore them a new one, but kept them on it and they came good.
They can test the C3 as much as they like, the trouble with testing however is its done over the same stretch of road for hours on end. it lacks the changes a live and competitive stage will give. it also lacks the competition of other drivers fighting for places, this is something that cant be replicated on a test. So maybe the car performed well in testing but under competition failures and flaws are highlighted, yet nothing seems to be done about it other than blame Meeke for having to push the car!?
In the hands of Lefebvre it certainly looks stable. but he lacks the ability to push it to front of the pack pace like Kris, Craig Breen hasn't exactly been quiet in the car when its been going wrong. In Sweden both he and Kris said it was undriveable.
there is something wrong with the suspension set up for me, maybe its because its and in house system so they've missed something fundamental? Craig has had 2 instances of smashing the sump as the car sits so low. this is visible when comparing vids of the C3 in testing for Poland with the Fiesta/Yaris & i20.
There's massive amount of gap in the arches of the C3 but it still looks like its in tarmac height, the fiesta has clear daylight between it and the ground. it seems to squat more than the other 2017 cars under acceleration, and one vid of Craig launching on a clean track had it squirming quite badly.
Maybe its down to different driver set ups and Kris' choices mean that even the little incidents he has result in big failures.
I'd be interested to see what Andreas really has to say about the car, but we're not going to know until things go south between him and Citroen, if they do.
Here's hoping this break gives Kris the focus he needs to return to form, right now tho he's on a knife edge for form when he comes back, if he comes back and nothign changes I think he'll be gone by the end of the season, however if he comes back and simply drives to get the car through events and to the end of stages then he'll be gone for the '18 season for under performing. Matton seems to want Kris to be his next Loeb, but they couldn't be any different so he needs to trust in Kris, he could take a leaf out of Malcolm Wilsons book with the way he handled his drivers over the years. all the times JML etc binned a Focus/Fiesta and MW never demoted them, no doubt tore them a new one, but kept them on it and they came good.
The C3 looks a bit of a handful in testing for Poland 
https://twitter.com/SLefebvreRallye/status/8771133...
https://twitter.com/SLefebvreRallye/status/8771133...
Allyc85 said:
The C3 looks? a bit of a handful in testing for Poland
https://twitter.com/SLefebvreRallye/status/8771133...
That's only going to end one way (and it won't be on the top step of the rostrum .....) https://twitter.com/SLefebvreRallye/status/8771133...
The car looks a real handful with either suspension geometry that's intrinsically wrong (too low/lack of suspension travel) or the diffs aren't set up/lack development.
Andreas had everything to loose, so no real surprise he took it very (in what is clearly an ill-handling car that doesn't suit his driving style) steady on his first outing. Hopefully he'll get some proper testing in before his next outing, if not he'll be in the trees at very high speed.....
I think the 2017 cars are probably harder to drive on the limit consistently, a look at the differing winners in 2017 would tend to indicate as much, and it looks like Ogier is still far from happy with the Ford, though clearly Tanak has benefited from the many hours he spent spent developing the car last year......
I think we're all starting to sound like broken records when we all seem to agree there's something intrinsically wrong with the C3's suspension.
the way the car bottoms out and gets spat out of the ruts at around the 0.50s mark in that clip shows how low and loose its running.
as fast as his hands were, he had no control of the car for those split seconds the car was in the ruts the car was already changing direction before Lefebvre had turned the wheel!
the way the car bottoms out and gets spat out of the ruts at around the 0.50s mark in that clip shows how low and loose its running.
as fast as his hands were, he had no control of the car for those split seconds the car was in the ruts the car was already changing direction before Lefebvre had turned the wheel!
Ypres rally is nailing the BRC boys today! Even Thierry Neuville has rolled out in a big off - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7l8UjlfUZw
It seems any offroad excursions are causing heavy damage. and the roadside ditches are playing havoc that once a car get in, it aint easy getting out. here's Alex Laffey demonstrating - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkJOTr-RSaQ - admittedly had he reversed he'd have got out easier, but going forward sucked him in deeper.
BRC boys out at the moment -
Fredy Åhlin
David Bogie
Marty McCormack
Jonny Greer
Marty Gallagher
No one needs anything from Skoda right now do they, may be a delay for your parts!
It seems any offroad excursions are causing heavy damage. and the roadside ditches are playing havoc that once a car get in, it aint easy getting out. here's Alex Laffey demonstrating - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkJOTr-RSaQ - admittedly had he reversed he'd have got out easier, but going forward sucked him in deeper.
BRC boys out at the moment -
Fredy Åhlin
David Bogie
Marty McCormack
Jonny Greer
Marty Gallagher
No one needs anything from Skoda right now do they, may be a delay for your parts!
The Ravens Rock Rally was on over here on the weekend, Craig Breen took part in a modified Mk 2. He finished third overall and won the modified class....without a single pacenote.
It was a present for his friend who is wheel chair bound, he sat beside Craig and enjoyed the ride!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DMRFSctNR0&li...
It was a present for his friend who is wheel chair bound, he sat beside Craig and enjoyed the ride!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DMRFSctNR0&li...
Motorsport news front page headline today.
Escorts allowed back on RALLY GB.
A change in regs means individual motor sport associations can allow older homologated cars onto their WRC rounds.
Yes ,these cars were and still are allowed to enter the "national" section to do a part of the WRC event but now they can enter the whole thing.
How many will enter ?.....probably need deep pockets.
BTW this was the main headline ,way bigger than boring old F1 shenanigans.
Escorts allowed back on RALLY GB.
A change in regs means individual motor sport associations can allow older homologated cars onto their WRC rounds.
Yes ,these cars were and still are allowed to enter the "national" section to do a part of the WRC event but now they can enter the whole thing.
How many will enter ?.....probably need deep pockets.
BTW this was the main headline ,way bigger than boring old F1 shenanigans.
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