The 2017 Rallying thread
Discussion
damianmkv said:
i went on Friday and Saturday with my son - our 1st rally experience. In hindsight, i should've bought a ticket for Friday's action rather than going to Newtown and enjoying the weather. Saturday was grim and a 5.30am start...loads of walking, falling through trees/ brambles, being ill prepared compared to those with stoves, sunloungers ( ! ), chairs etc. Oh well
wales rally gb by damianmkv, on Flickr
wales rally gb by damianmkv, on Flickr
wales rally gb by damianmkv, on Flickr
wales rally gb by damianmkv, on Flickr
wales rally gb by damianmkv, on Flickr
wales rally gb by damianmkv, on Flickr
wales rally gb by damianmkv, on Flickr
the rest from our trip are below
https://www.flickr.com/photos/59954848@N07/albums/...
I remember doing the same a few years ago. Freezing cold conditions and completely unprepared. Still, 2 amazing days! wales rally gb by damianmkv, on Flickrwales rally gb by damianmkv, on Flickrwales rally gb by damianmkv, on Flickrwales rally gb by damianmkv, on Flickrwales rally gb by damianmkv, on Flickrwales rally gb by damianmkv, on Flickrwales rally gb by damianmkv, on Flickrthe rest from our trip are below
https://www.flickr.com/photos/59954848@N07/albums/...
Yes they are on channel 5 tomorrow. Great pictures, if the rear shots of the Hyundai and Toyota are from the first run I was literally just out of shot to the right!
https://twitter.com/AlastairCummins/status/9243414...
So yesterday we spent the day at Brenig, which even though isn't everyones cup of tea, we quite enjoyed. We watched the first run at the final right hander, watching the drivers negotiate the bails with great precision, with some using the outside bank as a berm!
https://twitter.com/AlastairCummins/status/9245672...
For the Power Stage we went to the holding area after it, which was great for getting close to the cars and drivers, listening them discuss how the stage had gone! Meeke came in with a big handbrake turn, ending up parked right in front of us, before Ogier arrived, celebrating his title with his lovely wife!
https://twitter.com/AlastairCummins/status/9246914...
So while we didn't get to our planned spot in Garth it was a brilliant weekend of rallying. I expected more spectators this year, but not as many as what turned up! You really do have to get to a stage 3 hours before it starts to avoid a 5 mile walk!
Massive shame Elfyns win didn't get the covrage it deserves. Pretty bad luck that it coincided with Hamilton winning the roundy, roundy stuff...
Now to plan a trip to a couple WRC rounds abroad next year. Seems like Monte might happen again
https://twitter.com/AlastairCummins/status/9243414...
So yesterday we spent the day at Brenig, which even though isn't everyones cup of tea, we quite enjoyed. We watched the first run at the final right hander, watching the drivers negotiate the bails with great precision, with some using the outside bank as a berm!
https://twitter.com/AlastairCummins/status/9245672...
For the Power Stage we went to the holding area after it, which was great for getting close to the cars and drivers, listening them discuss how the stage had gone! Meeke came in with a big handbrake turn, ending up parked right in front of us, before Ogier arrived, celebrating his title with his lovely wife!
https://twitter.com/AlastairCummins/status/9246914...
So while we didn't get to our planned spot in Garth it was a brilliant weekend of rallying. I expected more spectators this year, but not as many as what turned up! You really do have to get to a stage 3 hours before it starts to avoid a 5 mile walk!
Massive shame Elfyns win didn't get the covrage it deserves. Pretty bad luck that it coincided with Hamilton winning the roundy, roundy stuff...
Now to plan a trip to a couple WRC rounds abroad next year. Seems like Monte might happen again
chunder27 said:
There are not really ANY places you can watch club rallying anymore.
Other than circuit venues like Donington and Cadwell when there are single venue events there.
Airfields are a no-no now.
One of the biggest errors the MSA has ever made is panicking after the Jim Clark incident a few years ago and basically banning spectators from most British single stage venues and making access even more difficult for even forest events. Instead of thinking pro-actively on what they could do or coming up with a solution like a season pass or a way for dedicated fans to access local rallies, they just made it impossible and pointless to attend.
Yes there were problems, obvious ones. But just banning people or making it worthless to attend is surely the blunt stick approach.
Most single venues now are non spectator to the point where if you do turn up you are likely to be asked to leave or stay in the service area only.
Yes, someone is bound to point out the marshals thing, and fair enough. But the whole point of speccying at a single venue was the access, the fact you could move between locations and find better or worse places to watch.
PLUS, you could sometimes assist with safety, warn crews of incidents and even help a crew stay in the event. More than a few marshals I have seen doing over the years I am afraid to say.
That is all gone and the MSA should be utterly ashamed of themselves for totally abandoning single venue and some stage rallying and basically making those events non spectator.
There are better ways but they couldn't care less.
I disagree with that view - and don't think it takes into account how the sport is having to evolve in the current world of H&S. The fatal accident enquiry in Scotland, which remember is covering 2 separate accidents (4 fatalities) should be reporting back Nov/Dec time. The findings of the FAI could still have huge implications for the sport - insurance for motor clubs is already getting harder to source - and with the closed roads bill having just got through parliament, taking a prudent approach to event organisation and safety has been key to allowing events to run. Other than circuit venues like Donington and Cadwell when there are single venue events there.
Airfields are a no-no now.
One of the biggest errors the MSA has ever made is panicking after the Jim Clark incident a few years ago and basically banning spectators from most British single stage venues and making access even more difficult for even forest events. Instead of thinking pro-actively on what they could do or coming up with a solution like a season pass or a way for dedicated fans to access local rallies, they just made it impossible and pointless to attend.
Yes there were problems, obvious ones. But just banning people or making it worthless to attend is surely the blunt stick approach.
Most single venues now are non spectator to the point where if you do turn up you are likely to be asked to leave or stay in the service area only.
Yes, someone is bound to point out the marshals thing, and fair enough. But the whole point of speccying at a single venue was the access, the fact you could move between locations and find better or worse places to watch.
PLUS, you could sometimes assist with safety, warn crews of incidents and even help a crew stay in the event. More than a few marshals I have seen doing over the years I am afraid to say.
That is all gone and the MSA should be utterly ashamed of themselves for totally abandoning single venue and some stage rallying and basically making those events non spectator.
There are better ways but they couldn't care less.
The Forestry Commission are jittery about all high risk sports on their land now, in the current climate, this includes Mountain Biking - and bear in mind there is an on-going court case for that sport too. There was a risk that the FC could just have stopped all rallies had the MSA not shown it was doing something to address spectator risk at events.
This is the key change - all events that want spectators have to do a full risk assessment on spectator safety. This is a job that should not be under estimated. One of the reason Circuit rallying is growing in popularity with organisers (including my club and the event we organise) is that the spectator safety element and risk assessment is pretty well covered by the track - and it reduces the risk. Due to the amount of work involved many airfield type S/V events - which don't charge for entry - many organisers just don't find this extra work appealing, especially if the landowner is not keen as well.
The recent event(s) at Fulbeck were both officially non spectator events, however 1 spectator area was created for service crew/family & friends. So the organisers recognised some people would turn up and put them in a specific contained area where the risk assessment could be completed.
It's not the same as the old days, and perhaps not ideal, but in the current climate, where there was even a fatality on the Monte this year, organisers from the FIA to local clubs are having to respond to the demands placed on them by modern legislation, the litigious society we live in and current H&S laws. This has to be balanced with a desire to keep the sport we love running for competitors and where possible spectators. The MSA is not perfect, but at the moment with Rally Futures has responded to a demand from land owners and in the short term has protected the sport the best it can - at a time when there really was a very real threat to its future existence.
Allyc85 said:
Yes they are on channel 5 tomorrow. Great pictures, if the rear shots of the Hyundai and Toyota are from the first run I was literally just out of shot to the right!
From the second run , as we were further in to stage for the first run. Next time I need to change stages but figured that it would take hours to do so and so stayed putSorry its a bit blurry, however....
We attended Saturday and Sunday.
Saturday First stage at Aberhirnant then went to Dyfi for the rest of the day, caught the tail end of first pass through and then the 2nd WRC Pass and then the nationals.
Dyfi was a bit chaotic as they said we couldnt get in as full, however by the time we drove down the road to turn around and read the maps to see for an alternitive, drove pass again and they had just started allowing a few more. We were parked down the bottom of the hill and was a mission to get to the stage, however well worth it.
The WRC cars are incredible in the blood, spectacular in their speed and control. A sight to behold. We were some of the few to stick around for the nationals as wanted to see a bit more variety, and they again were awesome. We situated ourselves on a long left hander at Dyfi and the Escorts Mk II were just awesome with some holding their drift right around the corner. A great variety of cars and plenty of different approaches to the corners which made great viewing.
Second Day went to Alwen/Brenig however spent the whole day at Alwen in the end, saw first WRC pass at V3 and then went over to V4 which offered some great viewing (where included picture was taken).
This was the third year i have been after a long break (2006/2007 previously) and would really encourage more to go, in the blood these cars and drivers are very good. Be prepared to move around the stages to get different aspects of the cars going by and go for an explore (safely! - not on the track whilst cars are still running which we unfortunately saw too many times).
We attended Saturday and Sunday.
Saturday First stage at Aberhirnant then went to Dyfi for the rest of the day, caught the tail end of first pass through and then the 2nd WRC Pass and then the nationals.
Dyfi was a bit chaotic as they said we couldnt get in as full, however by the time we drove down the road to turn around and read the maps to see for an alternitive, drove pass again and they had just started allowing a few more. We were parked down the bottom of the hill and was a mission to get to the stage, however well worth it.
The WRC cars are incredible in the blood, spectacular in their speed and control. A sight to behold. We were some of the few to stick around for the nationals as wanted to see a bit more variety, and they again were awesome. We situated ourselves on a long left hander at Dyfi and the Escorts Mk II were just awesome with some holding their drift right around the corner. A great variety of cars and plenty of different approaches to the corners which made great viewing.
Second Day went to Alwen/Brenig however spent the whole day at Alwen in the end, saw first WRC pass at V3 and then went over to V4 which offered some great viewing (where included picture was taken).
This was the third year i have been after a long break (2006/2007 previously) and would really encourage more to go, in the blood these cars and drivers are very good. Be prepared to move around the stages to get different aspects of the cars going by and go for an explore (safely! - not on the track whilst cars are still running which we unfortunately saw too many times).
damianmkv said:
i went on Friday and Saturday with my son - our 1st rally experience. In hindsight, i should've bought a ticket for Friday's action rather than going to Newtown and enjoying the weather. Saturday was grim and a 5.30am start...loads of walking, falling through trees/ brambles, being ill prepared compared to those with stoves, sunloungers ( ! ), chairs etc. Oh well
wales rally gb by damianmkv, on Flickr
wales rally gb by damianmkv, on Flickr
wales rally gb by damianmkv, on Flickr
wales rally gb by damianmkv, on Flickr
wales rally gb by damianmkv, on Flickr
wales rally gb by damianmkv, on Flickr
wales rally gb by damianmkv, on Flickr
the rest from our trip are below
https://www.flickr.com/photos/59954848@N07/albums/...
Fantastic pictures.wales rally gb by damianmkv, on Flickrwales rally gb by damianmkv, on Flickrwales rally gb by damianmkv, on Flickrwales rally gb by damianmkv, on Flickrwales rally gb by damianmkv, on Flickrwales rally gb by damianmkv, on Flickrwales rally gb by damianmkv, on Flickrthe rest from our trip are below
https://www.flickr.com/photos/59954848@N07/albums/...
Love how the British "lets write something on the back of a dirty car" applies to the WRC cars also
And sanf
Please watch some rallying from every single other country in the world and you will see the spectator rules and laws the MSA have implemented are totally over the top. The Fulbeck event you talk about was ruined by that new rule, you were basically in a pen in the service area, and couldn't see much. That is not rally spectating in anyones eyes is it. And will just stop people going, they don't go much anyway due to the Lord knows how many year old rule that you can't attend events anyway coz the clubs can't afford the extra insurance, that has been the case for decades. Doesn't sotp these events happening in Germany or Belgium or France on military land?
I do understand why, and what happened and the reasons they have cacked themselves. But in France, Italy, Belgium, Germany even Scandinavia the limits on speccies in most rallies are far less lax.
We have over reacted, sorry but you have to see that. There are incidents everywhere, a guy died on Rally Legend a few years ago when a car slid into him, yet this years event and the last few have been just the same.
The issue is our MSA are so concerned with insurance and claims they do not seem to manage to do what other countries do and argue it is not the drivers, clubs, rallies fault. It is your choice to stand in these places.
Quite why the MSA's reaction is so over the top I don't know, do you think other countries MSA's are lax or less worried? Of course they are, they just take a more collective and mature view. And put the emphasis on education and spectators own common sense. We are nanny stating the whole thing, as is the British way sadly.
Please watch some rallying from every single other country in the world and you will see the spectator rules and laws the MSA have implemented are totally over the top. The Fulbeck event you talk about was ruined by that new rule, you were basically in a pen in the service area, and couldn't see much. That is not rally spectating in anyones eyes is it. And will just stop people going, they don't go much anyway due to the Lord knows how many year old rule that you can't attend events anyway coz the clubs can't afford the extra insurance, that has been the case for decades. Doesn't sotp these events happening in Germany or Belgium or France on military land?
I do understand why, and what happened and the reasons they have cacked themselves. But in France, Italy, Belgium, Germany even Scandinavia the limits on speccies in most rallies are far less lax.
We have over reacted, sorry but you have to see that. There are incidents everywhere, a guy died on Rally Legend a few years ago when a car slid into him, yet this years event and the last few have been just the same.
The issue is our MSA are so concerned with insurance and claims they do not seem to manage to do what other countries do and argue it is not the drivers, clubs, rallies fault. It is your choice to stand in these places.
Quite why the MSA's reaction is so over the top I don't know, do you think other countries MSA's are lax or less worried? Of course they are, they just take a more collective and mature view. And put the emphasis on education and spectators own common sense. We are nanny stating the whole thing, as is the British way sadly.
ELUSIVEJIM said:
Fantastic win for Elfyn but shocking how limited the forums are with this success.
Look up any motorsport page and it's all about Lewis Hamilton and F1.
Such a shame as these drivers really are a cut above the rest.
It's bizarre, and disappointing; there were massive crowds, full car parks - yet on here and other motorsport forums, you are lucky if there were a dozen comments. Look up any motorsport page and it's all about Lewis Hamilton and F1.
Such a shame as these drivers really are a cut above the rest.
In days of the old Lombard RAC, it was the last major motorsport event of the year; F1, MotoGP et al had finished - and the national newspapers sent their F1 writers to cover the event; in fact, there was even a Fleet St award for the highest placed journalist crew.
ELUSIVEJIM said:
Fantastic win for Elfyn but shocking how limited the forums are with this success.
Look up any motorsport page and it's all about Lewis Hamilton and F1.
Such a shame as these drivers really are a cut above the rest.
Think WRC really need to get themselves some friends in the mainstream media. Looking on e.g. main BBC sport page on Monday and a Welshman winning the GB rally wasn't even mentioned. I'm not expecting wall to wall coverage, but to not even mention it is pretty grim. Look up any motorsport page and it's all about Lewis Hamilton and F1.
Such a shame as these drivers really are a cut above the rest.
Really pleased for Elfyn to get a win finally especially after Argentina. Best bit was his short interview in the car after he'd finished the foggy night stage on Saturday - said something like "Crazy stage, couldn't see the road in front of the car. Mad." Brilliant!
c6r said:
ELUSIVEJIM said:
Fantastic win for Elfyn but shocking how limited the forums are with this success.
Look up any motorsport page and it's all about Lewis Hamilton and F1.
Such a shame as these drivers really are a cut above the rest.
Think WRC really need to get themselves some friends in the mainstream media. Looking on e.g. main BBC sport page on Monday and a Welshman winning the GB rally wasn't even mentioned. I'm not expecting wall to wall coverage, but to not even mention it is pretty grim. Look up any motorsport page and it's all about Lewis Hamilton and F1.
Such a shame as these drivers really are a cut above the rest.
Really pleased for Elfyn to get a win finally especially after Argentina. Best bit was his short interview in the car after he'd finished the foggy night stage on Saturday - said something like "Crazy stage, couldn't see the road in front of the car. Mad." Brilliant!
People are very patriotic and not seeing their boys and girls well represented in a sport is not interesting sadly. So the medias will not waste money and time for a bunch of foreigners driving cars down some country lanes...
chunder27 said:
And sanf
Please watch some rallying from every single other country in the world and you will see the spectator rules and laws the MSA have implemented are totally over the top. The Fulbeck event you talk about was ruined by that new rule, you were basically in a pen in the service area, and couldn't see much. That is not rally spectating in anyones eyes is it. And will just stop people going, they don't go much anyway due to the Lord knows how many year old rule that you can't attend events anyway coz the clubs can't afford the extra insurance, that has been the case for decades. Doesn't sotp these events happening in Germany or Belgium or France on military land?
I do understand why, and what happened and the reasons they have cacked themselves. But in France, Italy, Belgium, Germany even Scandinavia the limits on speccies in most rallies are far less lax.
We have over reacted, sorry but you have to see that. There are incidents everywhere, a guy died on Rally Legend a few years ago when a car slid into him, yet this years event and the last few have been just the same.
The issue is our MSA are so concerned with insurance and claims they do not seem to manage to do what other countries do and argue it is not the drivers, clubs, rallies fault. It is your choice to stand in these places.
Quite why the MSA's reaction is so over the top I don't know, do you think other countries MSA's are lax or less worried? Of course they are, they just take a more collective and mature view. And put the emphasis on education and spectators own common sense. We are nanny stating the whole thing, as is the British way sadly.
The tragic events of the 2014 Jim Clark Rally means that the MSA can no longer bank on third party "common sense". That's no defence in court. Tbh, having just attended my first rally, I was still very surprised how close spectators are allowed in some areas. In all other forms of motorsport it wouldn't happen.Please watch some rallying from every single other country in the world and you will see the spectator rules and laws the MSA have implemented are totally over the top. The Fulbeck event you talk about was ruined by that new rule, you were basically in a pen in the service area, and couldn't see much. That is not rally spectating in anyones eyes is it. And will just stop people going, they don't go much anyway due to the Lord knows how many year old rule that you can't attend events anyway coz the clubs can't afford the extra insurance, that has been the case for decades. Doesn't sotp these events happening in Germany or Belgium or France on military land?
I do understand why, and what happened and the reasons they have cacked themselves. But in France, Italy, Belgium, Germany even Scandinavia the limits on speccies in most rallies are far less lax.
We have over reacted, sorry but you have to see that. There are incidents everywhere, a guy died on Rally Legend a few years ago when a car slid into him, yet this years event and the last few have been just the same.
The issue is our MSA are so concerned with insurance and claims they do not seem to manage to do what other countries do and argue it is not the drivers, clubs, rallies fault. It is your choice to stand in these places.
Quite why the MSA's reaction is so over the top I don't know, do you think other countries MSA's are lax or less worried? Of course they are, they just take a more collective and mature view. And put the emphasis on education and spectators own common sense. We are nanny stating the whole thing, as is the British way sadly.
velocemitch said:
It’s not just in the UK that Rallying is in trouble, Ireland is in dire straights over insurance problems too.
Yup, we nearly lost all forms of rallying + motorsport in general this year, license fees will go up by around 150 euro this Christmas, and if we don't get anymore claims after that it might not go up! We're really f
ked.ETA: This comment is in regards to Ireland!
Edited by confucuis on Saturday 4th November 21:56
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