Hill Climbing/Sprinting, anyone with experience?

[SWoll]

D_G said:

The rule of thumb is road production allows mods and standard production doesn't, be aware of the different class structures that are about too. My Lancer Gsr has uprated suspension, brakes, exhaust & induction and I've changed the seats and added harnesses. Runs in road production as it's Road legal and all the trim except the carpet is still inside and all the systems are still there (electric windows etc). We are also allowed 1b tyres in the South West.

Yes, road production is what I was looking at where more fiddling seems to be allowed. So an RX-8 with seats, harness, uprated suspension, brake pads, exhaust and induction would fall into what overall class as this is where I get confused at the minute?

Out of interest what are the requirements for 'road legal' as the car itself would not be used or kept on the road so not taxed or insured for that use for example? MOT testing would be possible though so I assume that is all that is required?

[carl_w]

SWoll said:

Yes, road production is what I was looking at where more fiddling seems to be allowed. So an RX-8 with seats, harness, uprated suspension, brake pads, exhaust and induction would fall into what overall class as this is where I get confused at the minute?

Out of interest what are the requirements for 'road legal' as the car itself would not be used or kept on the road so not taxed or insured for that use for example? MOT testing would be possible though so I assume that is all that is required?

Seriously, I would run in Standard Production until you decide if you like it or not, before spending money on harness, suspension, exhaust, induction, etc.

Car needs to be taxed, insured and have an MOT. These will be checked at signing on.

[D_G]

GC8 said:

Is this a Lancer 1.8lT GSR. from which the CD9A 2.0lT Lancer evolved (hence 'Evolution')?

Yes it's a 1800GSR, it was released at the same time so the Evolution series ran alongside, mine is a CD5A. Lots of differences but also shares a lot of parts, the brakes especially are much smaller so mine now has the EVO 3 setup.

[GC8]

I imported a couple in the early 2000s, as they were very cheap in Japan, for what they were.

[SWoll]

carl_w said:

Seriously, I would run in Standard Production until you decide if you like it or not, before spending money on harness, suspension, exhaust, induction, etc.

Car needs to be taxed, insured and have an MOT. These will be checked at signing on.

So I'd need to pay for road tax and road insurance even when the car isn't going to be used on the road just to meet regulations? That being the case I'm not sure a £750 a year cost for something that isn't used is something I'd be happy shelling out.

With regards to the mods, as above this started out as an interest in building a track day only car so even if competing isn't for me that purpose would still be valid.

[D_G]

It's been brilliant, with double drives has done c. 120 competitive events with very little problem and is reasonably competitive.

Anyway back to the OP, the RX8 will have a rotary loading to determine capacity, could be down as a 2.6 litre so likely to be in the unlimited class. If so be prepared to have your ass handed to you as there is usually some serious machinery in this class!

[D_G]

SWoll said:

So I'd need to pay for road tax and road insurance even when the car isn't going to be used on the road just to meet regulations? That being the case I'm not sure a £750 a year cost for something that isn't used is something I'd be happy shelling out.

With regards to the mods, as above this started out as an interest in building a track day only car so even if competing isn't for me that purpose would still be valid.

Tax and MOT yes, insurance no.

[SWoll]

D_G said:

It's been brilliant, with double drives has done c. 120 competitive events with very little problem and is reasonably competitive.

Anyway back to the OP, the RX8 will have a rotary loading to determine capacity, could be down as a 2.6 litre so likely to be in the unlimited class. If so be prepared to have your ass handed to you as there is usually some serious machinery in this class!

Checked the loading and it's as below in the 2017 Blue Book

10.3.2. Rotary engine equivalence 1.5. Forced
induction rotary equivalence (1.4 x 1.5) = 2.1.

So as the engine is 1.3 and not FI I'd assume 1.95? Unless I'm missing something?

D_G said:

Tax and MOT yes, insurance no.

That's annoying. Anyone know the VED cost for a 2004 RX-8? £300?

[carl_w]

D_G said:

Tax and MOT yes, insurance no.

Really? I'm asked to show my insurance certificate at signing-on.

Extract from the Hethel final regs:

Hethel regs said:

All competitors MSA Competition Licences and club membership cards will be checked at Signing On next to the Club House. Competitors in Classes A1-A8 and competitors in C13 without a Nat A Open or Race Nat A licence driving a car of over 2000cc(or 1428 with forced induction)will need to produce valid insurance certificates and MOT certificates [where needed].

You supply your number plate when you enter, so presumably they check the tax online.

[GC8]

Tax and insurance are both linked now - the days when you could buy a 12mth disc and keep a taxed but uninsured car passed over two years ago. No insurance requires SORN which cancels tax.

[SWoll]

GC8 said:

Tax and insurance are both linked now - the days when you could buy a 12mth disc and keep a taxed but uninsured car passed over two years ago. No insurance requires SORN which cancels tax.

Need to understand this better as like I say that's a £600-700 yearly bill for a car that won't be used on the public road (I assume sprint/hill climbs are closed/private roads?)

This was one of the things that appealed in comparison to autotesting etc. where you have to drive the car to the event so obviously tax and insurance are mandatory.

When they say 'valid insurance certificate' would that not just be for the event itself as a standard road policy wouldn't cover you anyway?

[Galveston]

SWoll said:

Preference would be RWD and at 6.4" smaller cars like MX-5'/MR2 unfortunately aren't viable as I don't fit.

SWoll said:

Unfortunately I don't fit in the 182/197 with the stock seats so not sure if I'd manage it with a helmet on even if the seat was a bit lower.

Interesting... I'm 6'7". There's no way I can fit in an MX5 but I sprint/hillclimb a 172 Cup and it's fine.

I love the Clio; mine's bog-standard (it even runs Renault pads) but it's fairly competitive in A3, lots of fun, and (touch wood) completely reliable.

[SWoll]

Galveston said:

Interesting... I'm 6'7". There's no way I can fit in an MX5 but I sprint/hillclimb a 172 Cup and it's fine.

I love the Clio; mine's bog-standard (it even runs Renault pads) but it's fairly competitive in A3, lots of fun, and (touch wood) completely reliable.

Tried a 172 many years ago when they first came out and didn't fit so no idea how you're getting in!

I suppose a replacement seat set a lot lower than standard would help significantly so worth considering, always had a soft spot for Renault Sport stuff. Having had a quick check it looks like even 197's are within budget nowadays so will research further.

Cheers

[Galveston]

SWoll said:

Tried a 172 many years ago when they first came out and didn't fit so no idea how you're getting in!

I suppose a replacement seat set a lot lower than standard would help significantly so worth considering, always had a soft spot for Renault Sport stuff. Having had a quick check it looks like even 197's are within budget nowadays so will research further.

Cheers

The 172/182 have spacers under the front seats which can be removed and make more difference than you'd expect for 12mm.

Personally I don't think 197/200s are any quicker than a 172/182 at a typical speed event. More power but also more weight.

[Salesy]

The RX8 has the 1.4 multiplier added to the cubic capacity so 1.3 x 1.4 = 1950 which allows for running in classes A2 and A4.

The tax on my 2006 model is just over £500 hence why it only gets taxed for 6 months and I'm using the clio for the April 30th meet.

There have been some changes to the blue book regarding road going production cars as they are trying to make it more affordable to get into motorsport.

[SWoll]

Galveston said:

SWoll said:

Tried a 172 many years ago when they first came out and didn't fit so no idea how you're getting in!

I suppose a replacement seat set a lot lower than standard would help significantly so worth considering, always had a soft spot for Renault Sport stuff. Having had a quick check it looks like even 197's are within budget nowadays so will research further.

Cheers

The 172/182 have spacers under the front seats which can be removed and make more difference than you'd expect for 12mm.

Personally I don't think 197/200s are any quicker than a 172/182 at a typical speed event. More power but also more weight.

Seems to be the general consensus and the light weight obviously helps with handling/braking/tyres also. 182's seem to be £2-3k so definitely in budget.

[df76]

SWoll said:

Galveston said:

SWoll said:

Tried a 172 many years ago when they first came out and didn't fit so no idea how you're getting in!

I suppose a replacement seat set a lot lower than standard would help significantly so worth considering, always had a soft spot for Renault Sport stuff. Having had a quick check it looks like even 197's are within budget nowadays so will research further.

Cheers

The 172/182 have spacers under the front seats which can be removed and make more difference than you'd expect for 12mm.

Personally I don't think 197/200s are any quicker than a 172/182 at a typical speed event. More power but also more weight.

Seems to be the general consensus and the light weight obviously helps with handling/braking/tyres also. 182's seem to be £2-3k so definitely in budget.

Depending on the class splits at your local clubs, a 182 would be a perfect starter car.. or a ep3 civic type r. For standard or road going, it would need to be taxed and MOT'd.

[SWoll]

Well, I've spent all day looking into this whilst doing other things and discussing with my potential co-pilot.

Still struggling with the different classes as having read the championship regulations for my local club it appears that other than race seats + uprated dampers (with production ride height retained) no modifications are allowed,which seems to contradict what is in the MSA rules?



Co-pilot not keen on Clio, had a 172 one many years ago apparently and had lots of issues so sworn off them. RX-8 still considered but concerns around maintenance costs abound, which is fair I think. Still my preference though as RWD and an LSD appeals.

EP3 CTR looks a good option, and having checked appears to do well fighting out for top 3 with Fiesta ST's at my local course. Thinking with new pads, Toyo T1R's and a CG Lock for the drivers belt might be a good starting point?

Thanks for all of the replies so far everyone, really helpful stuff.

Edited by SWoll on Sunday 16th April 21:09

[andye30m3]

I did a few years sprinting.

I'd recommend an S2000 in the standard up to 2.0 litre class, although they maybe slightly out of budget.

I also ran an M3 CSL for a year but couldn't keep up with the 2 GT3's (modded 996 and 997 RS)

[carl_w]

andye30m3 said:

I also ran an M3 CSL for a year but couldn't keep up with the 2 GT3's (modded 996 and 997 RS)

991 RS now