Hill Climbing/Sprinting, anyone with experience?

[df76]

SWoll said:

Well, I've spent all day looking into this whilst doing other things and discussing with my potential co-pilot.

Still struggling with the different classes as having read the championship regulations for my local club it appears that other than race seats + uprated dampers (with production ride height retained) no modifications are allowed,which seems to contradict what is in the MSA rules?



Co-pilot not keen on Clio, had a 172 one many years ago apparently and had lots of issues so sworn off them. RX-8 still considered but concerns around maintenance costs abound, which is fair I think. Still my preference though as RWD and an LSD appeals.

EP3 CTR looks a good option, and having checked appears to do well fighting out for top 3 with Fiesta ST's at my local course. Thinking with new pads, Toyo T1R's and a CG Lock for the drivers belt might be a good starting point?

Thanks for all of the replies so far everyone, really helpful stuff.

Edited by SWoll on Sunday 16th April 21:09

The SDCC regs are definitely a bit confusing. But they are running "standard" classes. Classes "S". Whereas classes "1" run to the msa roadgoing production regs... they (SDCC) use the word "modified" which doesn't help. A standard ep3 type r would be very competitive in the sub 2 litre class.

I've used a CG lock, and they are very good when using a three point harness. Recommended.

There would be better tyre than the Toyo T1R. You do need to be careful with the current msa tyre lists though, as many of the latest releases are not included. Depending on your sizes and if running list 1a tyres, I would be looking at: Michelin pilot super sports, yoko advan v105s, conti sport contact 5s. Any of those would be significantly quicker than the toyo.

[carl_w]

df76 said:

I've used a CG lock, and they are very good when using a three point harness. Recommended.

Except they're no longer being produced.

[SWoll]

andye30m3 said:

I did a few years sprinting.

I'd recommend an S2000 in the standard up to 2.0 litre class, although they maybe slightly out of budget.

I did look at the S2000 but they are going for decent money now and earlier cars aren't renowned for their progressive handling traits. Definitely a good call though as there are 4 running in the 1B class at my local club, all in the top 4..

df76 said:

The SDCC regs are definitely a bit confusing. But they are running "standard" classes. Classes "S". Whereas classes "1" run to the msa roadgoing production regs... they (SDCC) use the word "modified" which doesn't help. A standard ep3 type r would be very competitive in the sub 2 litre class.

I've used a CG lock, and they are very good when using a three point harness. Recommended.

There would be better tyre than the Toyo T1R. You do need to be careful with the current msa tyre lists though, as many of the latest releases are not included. Depending on your sizes and if running list 1a tyres, I would be looking at: Michelin pilot super sports, yoko advan v105s, conti sport contact 5s. Any of those would be significantly quicker than the toyo.

Ah, thanks the penny has dropped now with a bit more reading.

So based on the club results from last year the 182, Fiesta ST and CTR are all running in SB class for standard production cars < 2000cc with no mods. The S2000's I mention above are all running in 1B so must be modified in some way (either that or it was setup that way to keep things competitive).

The RX-8 still intrigues me as they're cheap as chips, don't weigh much more than an EP3 CTR, have RWD and an LSD so a traction advantage and another 30 BHP but should still be SB eligible as standard. Not sure how it would fare against the S2000's in 1B with a few mods but might be interesting to find out for a 1/4 of the outlay..

T1R suggestion was purely based on a quick skim and knowing it's not an expensive tyre. I'd definitely look at the Michelin PS as you suggest.

Edited by SWoll on Sunday 16th April 23:52

[Salesy]

SWoll said:

Ah, thanks the penny has dropped now with a bit more reading.

So based on the club results from last year the 182, Fiesta ST and CTR are all running in SB class for standard production cars < 2000cc with no mods. The S2000's I mention above are all running in 1B so must be modified in some way (either that or it was setup that way to keep things competitive).

The RX-8 still intrigues me as they're cheap as chips, don't weigh much more than an EP3 CTR, have RWD and an LSD so a traction advantage and another 30 BHP but should still be SB eligible as standard. Not sure how it would fare against the S2000's in 1B with a few mods but might be interesting to find out for a 1/4 of the outlay..

T1R suggestion was purely based on a quick skim and knowing it's not an expensive tyre. I'd definitely look at the Michelin PS as you suggest.

Edited by SWoll on Sunday 16th April 23:52

I have run my RX on standard Verdstien ultrac sassanta tyres with no modifications and i was quicker than an S2000 on list 1b tyres.

I got my RX for £2600 with compression results of 6.5 across all faces. I have competed for 3 1/2 years in that, and i am about to start my next season. A local guy called Lewis ( LC Rotary in Orpington) looks after it and has said an engine rebuild will set me back around £2k but he will warranty it for 2years knowing i race the engine. Lewis is a true enthusiast and can also help release some more potential if you fancy going down the FI route.

Take a look at a set of results from the classes at the Debden Sprint. Straight out of the box the RX was fast with only the integra in the ball park.

[Mark A S]

Deffo get yourself along to several events as varied as you can and speak to the competitors in the classes your interested in. As has been said, most are a very friendly bunch, especially the hillclimbers, like one big happy albeit slightly nuts, family
Your then get a good feel for what class and type of car your prefer.

Cheers.

[e21Mark]

I did a few events and really enjoyed sprints. I was never bothered about being competitive though, as I'm too fat and I drove a car that was fun but not quick. (much like myself) Sadly, I haven't been able to enter anything recently but hope to compete again this year....maybe.

Whatever car you choose, best of luck and enjoy yourself!

[SWoll]

Salesy said:

I have run my RX on standard Verdstien ultrac sassanta tyres with no modifications and i was quicker than an S2000 on list 1b tyres.

I got my RX for £2600 with compression results of 6.5 across all faces. I have competed for 3 1/2 years in that, and i am about to start my next season. A local guy called Lewis ( LC Rotary in Orpington) looks after it and has said an engine rebuild will set me back around £2k but he will warranty it for 2years knowing i race the engine. Lewis is a true enthusiast and can also help release some more potential if you fancy going down the FI route.

Take a look at a set of results from the classes at the Debden Sprint. Straight out of the box the RX was fast with only the integra in the ball park.

Thanks Paul, that's great to see and definitely pushing me further in the direction of the RX-8. IMHO it would be the most fun car to use just for track days and the occasional weekend blast as it will need to be kept road legal for regulation purposes anyway.

Not sure if you've mentioned before but is your car still running completely standard? How do you find the standard seats and belts cope out on course?

Mark A S said:

Deffo get yourself along to several events as varied as you can and speak to the competitors in the classes your interested in. As has been said, most are a very friendly bunch, especially the hillclimbers, like one big happy albeit slightly nuts, family
Your then get a good feel for what class and type of car your prefer.

Cheers.

I will do. Shelsley Walsh Hill Climb is runnig it's season opener next weekend so hoping to get along to that with my lad and see how it all works. Curburough sprint track, which is 5 minutes from me, has regular events that are free for spectators to attend so will be getting down there also ASAP.

[AdamIndy]

SWoll said:

I will do. Shelsley Walsh Hill Climb is runnig it's season opener next weekend so hoping to get along to that with my lad and see how it all works.

Shelsley is this Friday coming. I'll be there in my MK Indy if it's dry or my focus if it's wet. Car no.24.

I'm just there to dip my toe in so to speak. I have no idea what I'm doing but there for the same reasons as yourself. It should be a bit of fun if nothing else.

You're welcome to pop over for a chat, like I say, I won't have much of clue what's happening but if I can help then I will.

[Thurbs]

Spend half your money on a standard car and the other half on lots of instruction. Pound for pound it will make you the fastest you can be.

[SWoll]

e21Mark said:

I did a few events and really enjoyed sprints. I was never bothered about being competitive though, as I'm too fat and I drove a car that was fun but not quick. (much like myself) Sadly, I haven't been able to enter anything recently but hope to compete again this year....maybe.

Whatever car you choose, best of luck and enjoy yourself!

Thanks

I'm thinking the same way, although as with most things, if the bug bites..

The whole idea strikes me as more fun than just doing track days and a lot less expensive than getting involved in track racing. Be nice to re-engage with cars and driving again as for the last few years I've run company cars and spent all my time trudging up and down the UK motorway network.

AdamIndy said:

Shelsley is this Friday coming. I'll be there in my MK Indy if it's dry or my focus if it's wet. Car no.24.

I'm just there to dip my toe in so to speak. I have no idea what I'm doing but there for the same reasons as yourself. It should be a bit of fun if nothing else.

You're welcome to pop over for a chat, like I say, I won't have much of clue what's happening but if I can help then I will.

Balls..

All this reading of regulations and couldn't even get that date right. Based on that bombshell I might not be at SW then, which is a shame. Many thanks for the offer though, genuinely appreciated.

[SWoll]

Thurbs said:

Spend half your money on a standard car and the other half on lots of instruction. Pound for pound it will make you the fastest you can be.

Totally agree on instruction. Curburough are running a sprint instruction course in May so dependent on car purchase progress (and available places) will definitely look to get myself along for that.

As above, I'm not really concerned about being ultra competitive and have had some track instruction before so hopefully in a decent start point to progress from.

[carl_w]

SWoll said:

As above, I'm not really concerned about being ultra competitive

You will be once you start getting some decent results

[AdamIndy]

SWoll said:

Balls..

All this reading of regulations and couldn't even get that date right. Based on that bombshell I might not be at SW then, which is a shame. Many thanks for the offer though, genuinely appreciated.

Funny you should say that. I ballsed up the dates too. It wasn't until 2 days ago I was reminded it was on friday, not Sunday as I thought! Que me begging to get the day off work.

[SWoll]

carl_w said:

SWoll said:

As above, I'm not really concerned about being ultra competitive

You will be once you start getting some decent results

I know, I know. Already having visions of showing the FWD lot just how wrong their decision was.

One step at a time though..

AdamIndy said:

SWoll said:

Balls..

All this reading of regulations and couldn't even get that date right. Based on that bombshell I might not be at SW then, which is a shame. Many thanks for the offer though, genuinely appreciated.

Funny you should say that. I ballsed up the dates too. It wasn't until 2 days ago I was reminded it was on friday, not Sunday as I thought! Que me begging to get the day off work.

I'm already off work this week, therefore it would require me cancelling plans I have with the real boss..

As I'm currently succeeding in getting her onside with the whole concept probably best not to let her down and then bugger off for the day I'd have thought.

[Salesy]

SWoll said:

Thanks Paul, that's great to see and definitely pushing me further in the direction of the RX-8. IMHO it would be the most fun car to use just for track days and the occasional weekend blast as it will need to be kept road legal for regulation purposes anyway.

Not sure if you've mentioned before but is your car still running completely standard? How do you find the standard seats and belts cope out on course?

Hi SWoll, The seats are nice and comfortable and provide a good amount of support. My only gripe is that they are leather, which when wearing a race suit tend to let the bum slide a little. However because of the slight bucket design its not too much where you feel unsafe. I have had one off track excursion at Lynden hill where the car bounced a bit t and then went into a 70mph slide sideways. I think my arse gripped the seat......

As for modifications the RX is as it left the factory..

Im not quite sure what to do with the RX now i have a clio cup, Do i sell it? or do i keep it and carry on sprinting with it? My heart says i should keep it as it is an absolute weapon on track even in its standard form, but my head says whats the point in keeping a car and only using it a few times a year.

Edited by Salesy on Monday 17th April 12:50

Edited by Salesy on Monday 17th April 12:51

[Salesy]

A few action shots from last year.

[Nigel_O]

I'm also very local to Curborough and did a couple of seasons there a few years back. The final season was in a standard Honda CRX, which cost £400 to buy, £400 to weld and paint and about £600 in replacement suspension. It was ideally suited to a short twisty track - small, light, pretty punchy and very neat handling. I ended up bagging a first place in my first year and then someone offered me £1500 for the car and I let it go.

It was huge fun and pretty addictive, but each event cost between £60 and £100 and depending on the event, I was getting about five to seven minutes of track time, so while it was cheap, it wasn't very good value.

If I wanted some thrills on track now, I'd be spending £150 a time on a proper trackday, simply to get more time on track

And finally, as mentioned above, tuition will gain you more time than any amount of money spent on tyres. Curborough looks extremely simple to drive, but its fiendishly difficult to get everything right - several corners have changing radii and there are a couple of big stops if you do the long circuit. The new figure of eight configuration has only added to the difficulty

[SWoll]

Salesy said:

Hi SWoll, The seats are nice and comfortable and provide a good amount of support. My only gripe is that they are leather, which when wearing a race suit tend to let the bum slide a little. However because of the slight bucket design its not too much where you feel unsafe. I have had one off track excursion at Lynden hill where the car bounced a bit t and then went into a 70mph slide sideways. I think my arse gripped the seat......

As for modifications the RX is as it left the factory..

Im not quite sure what to do with the RX now i have a clio cup, Do i sell it? or do i keep it and carry on sprinting with it? My heart says i should keep it as it is an absolute weapon on track even in its standard form, but my head says whats the point in keeping a car and only using it a few times a year.

Edited by Salesy on Monday 17th April 12:50

Edited by Salesy on Monday 17th April 12:51

Hi Paul,

Have you not considered perhaps modifying it and moving up to a different class? I'm assuming the issue with selling is that they appear to be fetching so little nowadays as due to the engine worries, high oil & fuel consumption and emissions they are prohibitively expensive to run as a road car so generate little interest? For me this makes them perfect for track purposes, but again they don't seem an obvious choice for many.

Will have to see how well the seats fit once I get in one again. Like I said earlier in the thread I'm 6.4" and also wide across the shoulders so generally a big lad which can make comfortable seating a challenge at times. Amusingly my potential co-driver is the exact opposite, about 5.6" and 9-10 stone so a very adjustable driving position will definitely be an important priority.

Scott

Nigel_O said:

I'm also very local to Curborough and did a couple of seasons there a few years back. The final season was in a standard Honda CRX, which cost £400 to buy, £400 to weld and paint and about £600 in replacement suspension. It was ideally suited to a short twisty track - small, light, pretty punchy and very neat handling. I ended up bagging a first place in my first year and then someone offered me £1500 for the car and I let it go.

It was huge fun and pretty addictive, but each event cost between £60 and £100 and depending on the event, I was getting about five to seven minutes of track time, so while it was cheap, it wasn't very good value.

If I wanted some thrills on track now, I'd be spending £150 a time on a proper trackday, simply to get more time on track

And finally, as mentioned above, tuition will gain you more time than any amount of money spent on tyres. Curborough looks extremely simple to drive, but its fiendishly difficult to get everything right - several corners have changing radii and there are a couple of big stops if you do the long circuit. The new figure of eight configuration has only added to the difficulty

Hi Nigel,

The plan is to use the car for a combination of things so track days, sprints, hill climbs and summer weekend runs up north and across to Wales to find some good roads. Got to agree that sprinting doesn't look great value but then again no-one ever said motorsport was anything other than expensive I suppose.

The plan may well be just to source the car this year, do any work required and then a few track days and open days at Curburough to get the feel for it at the limit. I can then get some tuition in preparation for next years season and a better feel for what format/class suits me.

Edited by SWoll on Monday 17th April 13:56

[SWoll]

Salesy said:

A few action shots from last year.

Utterly unimportant I know, but I do love the RX in that colour. Still a good looking car after 15 years as well.

[Salesy]

Thanks

The car doesn't use oil any quicker than an other car. Fuel consumption on track is dire but as it's not my daily I don't care.
As for height I'm 6'1 and have plenty of room and my mate who sometimes double drives with me is around 5'10 so we're quite similar.
As a previous poster has said the sprints are around £75-£140 plus fuel which is around £50 for the day including travelling there and back.