BTCC - Croft - Rounds 13, 14, 15
Discussion
The Wookie said:
Yes for the first in theory and it's my pet hate, although it's rare the stewards actually look into it for some reason. Some drivers are repeat offenders for this, usually the same tossers that weave about the straights to block and nothing gets done about that either
Yes for the second too as I've been penalised for exactly that, although I didn't spin the other car, it broke a rear toe link and crashed into the side of me taking us both out. It's a very grey area and seems to be applied fairly subjectively from incident to incident.
Many thanks for the insight. It sounds like there is just as much influence on what position you finish the race out side the confines of the track, more so then on it nowadays. I know at times it must be difficult to apportion blame, but the consistency of the decisions seems appallingly erratic at times.Yes for the second too as I've been penalised for exactly that, although I didn't spin the other car, it broke a rear toe link and crashed into the side of me taking us both out. It's a very grey area and seems to be applied fairly subjectively from incident to incident.
Must drive you mad?!?
If I was in Mat Jackson's position I would have just blended Sutton's car to the outside putting 2 wheels on the grass, knowing that his car was rwd. It was a bit of a clumsy and obvious barge, and like you said Wookie, if Sutton had turned left into MJ and banged him towards the pit wall he would probably copped a penalty.
Update on Davenport off Motorbases Facebook Page...
"An update on Luke Davenport
Further to his accident during qualifying for round 13 of the Dunlop MSA British Touring Car Championship at Croft circuit on Saturday, June 10th, Luke remains in the excellent care of the staff at the ICU of James Cook Hospital in Middlesbrough.
He has undergone a number of successful operations on his leg and pelvis and we are happy to report that there are no signs of any injuries to his head, neck or spine.
Luke has been briefly conscious during his time on the ICU and the current plan is for him to hopefully be brought out of the induced coma later this week.
Once again we would like to pass our sincerest thanks to the marshals, BTCC extrication team, BTCC medical team, Croft circuit staff, Air Ambulance Crew, TOCA and the wonderful staff at James Cook Hospital for their professionalism, support and ongoing care.
We will post further updates in due course, but would ask for the family’s privacy to be respected at this difficult time.
Luke’s family and everyone at Motorbase Performance are incredibly grateful for the messages of support that have been received.
Thank you."
"An update on Luke Davenport
Further to his accident during qualifying for round 13 of the Dunlop MSA British Touring Car Championship at Croft circuit on Saturday, June 10th, Luke remains in the excellent care of the staff at the ICU of James Cook Hospital in Middlesbrough.
He has undergone a number of successful operations on his leg and pelvis and we are happy to report that there are no signs of any injuries to his head, neck or spine.
Luke has been briefly conscious during his time on the ICU and the current plan is for him to hopefully be brought out of the induced coma later this week.
Once again we would like to pass our sincerest thanks to the marshals, BTCC extrication team, BTCC medical team, Croft circuit staff, Air Ambulance Crew, TOCA and the wonderful staff at James Cook Hospital for their professionalism, support and ongoing care.
We will post further updates in due course, but would ask for the family’s privacy to be respected at this difficult time.
Luke’s family and everyone at Motorbase Performance are incredibly grateful for the messages of support that have been received.
Thank you."
When I used to have to write incident reports when I was an observer or judge of fact ,on the form was a space that said was this contact avoidable?
If it was I always highlighted this in the written part of the report .
Obvious things like change of racing line and direction changes or using another car as a brake were also highlighted.
With regard to the accidents in practice/qualification it would have been very difficult for both the marshalls and drivers to see any oil on a wet track .
All the modern oils are almost clear in colour when fresh and only leave a faint rainbow effect on wet tarmac when in the right light .
It is so tempting in those conditions to react to the initial cars having impacts and then putting unprotected bodies in the firing line as the next wave of vehicles arrived .
The reaction of the safety guys was superb when it was safe for them to attend .The signals given by the marshalls first on the scene were clear and emphatic that specialist people were needed .
The kit used by track rescue crews and medics at most venues in this country is as good as it can be .
In many cases better than public services as they are not constrained by finances as much as the public sector .
In my day we had things like pulseoxometers,portable defibs ,the latest pneumatic splints and such before NHS frontline ambulances and better spec extraction gear .
The luxury of equipping vehicles for specific tasks .
If any competitors get the chance to attend or be part of Marshall or Rescue Crew training days please attend.
You will enjoy the education .
If it was I always highlighted this in the written part of the report .
Obvious things like change of racing line and direction changes or using another car as a brake were also highlighted.
With regard to the accidents in practice/qualification it would have been very difficult for both the marshalls and drivers to see any oil on a wet track .
All the modern oils are almost clear in colour when fresh and only leave a faint rainbow effect on wet tarmac when in the right light .
It is so tempting in those conditions to react to the initial cars having impacts and then putting unprotected bodies in the firing line as the next wave of vehicles arrived .
The reaction of the safety guys was superb when it was safe for them to attend .The signals given by the marshalls first on the scene were clear and emphatic that specialist people were needed .
The kit used by track rescue crews and medics at most venues in this country is as good as it can be .
In many cases better than public services as they are not constrained by finances as much as the public sector .
In my day we had things like pulseoxometers,portable defibs ,the latest pneumatic splints and such before NHS frontline ambulances and better spec extraction gear .
The luxury of equipping vehicles for specific tasks .
If any competitors get the chance to attend or be part of Marshall or Rescue Crew training days please attend.
You will enjoy the education .
From Eurotech...
"Update on Jeff’s condition Saturday 17th June, 10pm.
Today’s initial plan was to operate on Jeff’s left shoulder, however due to the amount of swelling, joint damage and pain the surgical team at JCU Hospital decided a clearer understanding was needed before proceeding with any surgery. Jeff has undergone further x-rays and a CT scan this afternoon and initial findings were that the shoulder was severely dislocated and then the misaligned joint was rammed back together causing additional damage, this additional force potentially caused by the second impact from Aron's MG. The pain levels are currently under control and Jeff remains positive about his recovery process. The next step is for the Orthopaedic and A&E surgeons to fully review the new information which we believe will be on Monday morning and make a plan from there. Jeff is very, very grateful for all of the many, many messages and apologies to anyone he hasn’t responded to – unfortunately one of the side effects of the drugs is his attention span is little more than that of a gnat – although some may say that is normal! He has again expressed his gratitude to everyone who helped at the circuit, the dozens of A&E staff at the hospital who attended to him upon arrival, the air ambulance crew, the ICU and Trauma Ward staff who continue to look after him. We are in regular contact with Luke’s family which is helping both parties remain strong through these difficult times."
"Update on Jeff’s condition Saturday 17th June, 10pm.
Today’s initial plan was to operate on Jeff’s left shoulder, however due to the amount of swelling, joint damage and pain the surgical team at JCU Hospital decided a clearer understanding was needed before proceeding with any surgery. Jeff has undergone further x-rays and a CT scan this afternoon and initial findings were that the shoulder was severely dislocated and then the misaligned joint was rammed back together causing additional damage, this additional force potentially caused by the second impact from Aron's MG. The pain levels are currently under control and Jeff remains positive about his recovery process. The next step is for the Orthopaedic and A&E surgeons to fully review the new information which we believe will be on Monday morning and make a plan from there. Jeff is very, very grateful for all of the many, many messages and apologies to anyone he hasn’t responded to – unfortunately one of the side effects of the drugs is his attention span is little more than that of a gnat – although some may say that is normal! He has again expressed his gratitude to everyone who helped at the circuit, the dozens of A&E staff at the hospital who attended to him upon arrival, the air ambulance crew, the ICU and Trauma Ward staff who continue to look after him. We are in regular contact with Luke’s family which is helping both parties remain strong through these difficult times."
Eurotech:
"Update on Jeff, Monday 19th June 7pm. After a multitude of x-rays and scans and deliberation the orthopaedic doctors and shoulder reconstruction surgeon have decided that surgery is not required. They were particularly concerned with damage and misalignment to the ball and socket and the potential for bone particles to be in the joint, however they are now satisfied that the joint is in alignment and although there are broken bone fragments they aren't within the joints and shouldn't cause problems as the tissue, muscle and ligaments heal. His chest and lungs are clear so the doctors are very happy with how this has progressed considering the number of broken ribs. He has been suffering with nerve pain spasms which are common to the type of severe damage sustained. Providing the nurses are satisfied that the pain relief reactions are under control through the night they hope to be able to release him to go home tomorrow."
"Update on Jeff, Monday 19th June 7pm. After a multitude of x-rays and scans and deliberation the orthopaedic doctors and shoulder reconstruction surgeon have decided that surgery is not required. They were particularly concerned with damage and misalignment to the ball and socket and the potential for bone particles to be in the joint, however they are now satisfied that the joint is in alignment and although there are broken bone fragments they aren't within the joints and shouldn't cause problems as the tissue, muscle and ligaments heal. His chest and lungs are clear so the doctors are very happy with how this has progressed considering the number of broken ribs. He has been suffering with nerve pain spasms which are common to the type of severe damage sustained. Providing the nurses are satisfied that the pain relief reactions are under control through the night they hope to be able to release him to go home tomorrow."
"Davenport "conscious and communicating" after BTCC crash"
https://www.motorsport.com/btcc/news/davenport-now...
https://www.motorsport.com/btcc/news/davenport-now...
Just caught up with race 3 after not having a chance to watch the recording for ages. What an utter, utter farce.
I can see from this thread that the Wookie is putting a brave face on it (and fair play to him) but for that punt off by Jackson to go unpunished is a license for this season to degenerate into total banger racing. You couldn't even call it push to pass, it was shoving another car off the track and that is endangering another driver.
That's the final straw. After following BTCC since the Supertouring days I'm done, at least until the governing body gets a grip on this blatant cheating.
I can see from this thread that the Wookie is putting a brave face on it (and fair play to him) but for that punt off by Jackson to go unpunished is a license for this season to degenerate into total banger racing. You couldn't even call it push to pass, it was shoving another car off the track and that is endangering another driver.
That's the final straw. After following BTCC since the Supertouring days I'm done, at least until the governing body gets a grip on this blatant cheating.
The Croft meeting marked a new low for me in BTCC too.
Firstly, the awful crash: I haven't (nor want to) seen more footage than was shown on the ITV coverage but surely some of the offs were avoidable? Just brings back bad memories of an incident during sidecar practice at the TT a few years ago where we watched someone's engine let go at the top of Bray Hill and leave a trail of oil. Spectators shouted to marshals of the considerable hazard but were told to be quiet. Subsequent oufits had a moment before one lost it, bounced off a kerb and whacked the wall of the school half way up at pace. Different circumstances obviously but hello - OIL!!! Maybe you can't just throw a red and have to accept this as a consequence of close running cars, what do I know.
Alan Gow made my skin crawl even more than usual this time. What were his words after the accident? Something like "the boys will be a bit sore in the morning". Nice response sir. Then he comes out with "I've released the 2018 calendar early because we're the no.1 motorsport draw in the UK and everyone can work round us". Bigger than BSB? Yeah, the same calendar again, quel surprise with a huge break just to kill any momentum in interest in the series, Donington in the cold and rain of April and the winner of his championship crowned on the back of a trailer in a paddock in pouring rain in the dark.
Just what would the orange & black team have to do to incur sanctions? Maybe they could fit an actual Honda engine, it would grenade half way through and result in less cars having a back end like a folded crisp packet. It was depressing to see Ollie nerfed off by his namesake but given how likely this was to happen I'm glad it was by him and not certain others meaning he did get his top ten finish. This compared to Neal's assault on Rob Collard..
Tyre stacks, really? Who thought they were a good idea?
Where would the series be without Ginetta? Blimey, the support program is a bit thin!
Will I be watching when the series eventually returns? Of course! But then I used to watch Stirling Albion when I could
Firstly, the awful crash: I haven't (nor want to) seen more footage than was shown on the ITV coverage but surely some of the offs were avoidable? Just brings back bad memories of an incident during sidecar practice at the TT a few years ago where we watched someone's engine let go at the top of Bray Hill and leave a trail of oil. Spectators shouted to marshals of the considerable hazard but were told to be quiet. Subsequent oufits had a moment before one lost it, bounced off a kerb and whacked the wall of the school half way up at pace. Different circumstances obviously but hello - OIL!!! Maybe you can't just throw a red and have to accept this as a consequence of close running cars, what do I know.
Alan Gow made my skin crawl even more than usual this time. What were his words after the accident? Something like "the boys will be a bit sore in the morning". Nice response sir. Then he comes out with "I've released the 2018 calendar early because we're the no.1 motorsport draw in the UK and everyone can work round us". Bigger than BSB? Yeah, the same calendar again, quel surprise with a huge break just to kill any momentum in interest in the series, Donington in the cold and rain of April and the winner of his championship crowned on the back of a trailer in a paddock in pouring rain in the dark.
Just what would the orange & black team have to do to incur sanctions? Maybe they could fit an actual Honda engine, it would grenade half way through and result in less cars having a back end like a folded crisp packet. It was depressing to see Ollie nerfed off by his namesake but given how likely this was to happen I'm glad it was by him and not certain others meaning he did get his top ten finish. This compared to Neal's assault on Rob Collard..
Tyre stacks, really? Who thought they were a good idea?
Where would the series be without Ginetta? Blimey, the support program is a bit thin!
Will I be watching when the series eventually returns? Of course! But then I used to watch Stirling Albion when I could
Interesting - I have been very sniffy about BTCC as my inner purist dislikes the crashing , the panto element and the crowds. I went to Croft qualifying day (only 20 mins from home but I had to miss the race for family reasons) . I thought the full grid was excellent - far better than last time I'd been - the cars might have been loud but made a bloody horrible noise , they looked the part even if half the liveries are a dog's dinner and they were very , very quick for what they are.
Watching wet practice was instructional - some very good driving on show and absolutely no lack of commitment - very spectacular stuff to watch. But the support package is tedious and offers less entertainment and hugely less diversity than a good club meeting .
I don't follow the series with much attention any more so can't comment on the pantomime villain aspects but as a live spectacle I don't mind admitting I ate some words . I'd go again , but armed with a Stanley Knife to cut down those f**ing marquee size gazeboes some idiots bring with them to spoil other people's view....
Watching wet practice was instructional - some very good driving on show and absolutely no lack of commitment - very spectacular stuff to watch. But the support package is tedious and offers less entertainment and hugely less diversity than a good club meeting .
I don't follow the series with much attention any more so can't comment on the pantomime villain aspects but as a live spectacle I don't mind admitting I ate some words . I'd go again , but armed with a Stanley Knife to cut down those f**ing marquee size gazeboes some idiots bring with them to spoil other people's view....
Bernd Tost said:
Just what would the orange & black team have to do to incur sanctions? Maybe they could fit an actual Honda engine, it would grenade half way through and result in less cars having a back end like a folded crisp packet.
Erm, they do use 'an actual Honda engine' and always have.knowitall said:
Bernd Tost said:
Just what would the orange & black team have to do to incur sanctions? Maybe they could fit an actual Honda engine, it would grenade half way through and result in less cars having a back end like a folded crisp packet.
Erm, they do use 'an actual Honda engine' and always have.Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff