Getting into Motorsport
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Last month my son (14) had a go at the Ginetta Junior Scholarship. Whilst he didn’t win it, he did have a massive amount of fun driving the little G40 junior car round the track at upto 100mph. I also had great satisfaction just watching him.
The Ginetta championship is well out of our reach financially, but we are currently looking at the Junior 1000 Ecosse challenge http://www.j1000ecossechallenge.co.uk/ (the Scottish version of this http://formula1000.co.uk/ )
We need to keep costs in check, but I'd rather spend on something quality than spend twice so i'm starting a thread in the hope of getting advice really. What to buy, what to avoid etc. Brands, where to buy etc. We’ll obviously be speaking to guys already in the championship etc, but more advice can’t hurt.
I recently bought a 325ti to turn into a track car, that’s getting sold along with my Soarer (that basically sits around doing nothing much a lot of the time anyway) to help fund the initial costs.
I have my eye on a K11 Micra that already has the roll cage etc. installed.
To start off, I have a few specific queries.
1) I need a trailer. Any advice? Something like this looks like good Value (£1900.00 plus VAT) brand new - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRAND-NEW-Car-Transport...
Or would I be better spending the same money on a used ‘branded’ trailer (eg. Brian James)?
2) I have a 3.5t Peugeot Boxer that will do most of the towing (am I correct that I don’t need a tacho for this?), but would my 520d Touring (auto) be up to the job if the van is otherwise in use on a weekend?
3) Intercom helmets - Looks like a big spend so don't want to get this wrong - Any recommendations?
No doubt we will have loads more questions and I’ll keep the thread updated as we go.
The Ginetta championship is well out of our reach financially, but we are currently looking at the Junior 1000 Ecosse challenge http://www.j1000ecossechallenge.co.uk/ (the Scottish version of this http://formula1000.co.uk/ )
We need to keep costs in check, but I'd rather spend on something quality than spend twice so i'm starting a thread in the hope of getting advice really. What to buy, what to avoid etc. Brands, where to buy etc. We’ll obviously be speaking to guys already in the championship etc, but more advice can’t hurt.
I recently bought a 325ti to turn into a track car, that’s getting sold along with my Soarer (that basically sits around doing nothing much a lot of the time anyway) to help fund the initial costs.
I have my eye on a K11 Micra that already has the roll cage etc. installed.
To start off, I have a few specific queries.
1) I need a trailer. Any advice? Something like this looks like good Value (£1900.00 plus VAT) brand new - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRAND-NEW-Car-Transport...
Or would I be better spending the same money on a used ‘branded’ trailer (eg. Brian James)?
2) I have a 3.5t Peugeot Boxer that will do most of the towing (am I correct that I don’t need a tacho for this?), but would my 520d Touring (auto) be up to the job if the van is otherwise in use on a weekend?
3) Intercom helmets - Looks like a big spend so don't want to get this wrong - Any recommendations?
No doubt we will have loads more questions and I’ll keep the thread updated as we go.
There's loads of junior championships around which are for circuit racing (which is inherently safer than rallying) but I'm not sure about coverage in Scotland.
The two which I would recommend on a 'budget' would be the Fiesta Junior or Junior Saloon Car Championships, both use relatively cheap hot hatches (the JSCC in particular) and they go all over the place so the variety of circuits is greater.
Is there a junior equivalent to the Scottish Mini Cooper Cup?
The two which I would recommend on a 'budget' would be the Fiesta Junior or Junior Saloon Car Championships, both use relatively cheap hot hatches (the JSCC in particular) and they go all over the place so the variety of circuits is greater.
Is there a junior equivalent to the Scottish Mini Cooper Cup?
The recognised trailer manufacturers have refined their products over the years but also offer a good backup service for specific spare parts, and their trailers also hold their value better, so personally I'd go for a branded trailer.
Do you have the correct license allowances?
A BMW 520D should be able to tow up to 2000kgs, so should be able to cope.
Do you have the correct license allowances?
A BMW 520D should be able to tow up to 2000kgs, so should be able to cope.
I have been involved in a coaching capacity with the JSCC (Junior Saloon Car Championship) formerly Saxmax, for well over 12 years, and can recommend that as being something to look at, and in my opinion, it is the most cost effective starting point for any "junior driver"!! Obviously, as has already been mentioned, the races are national, taking in circuits such as Silverstone, Oulton Park, Anglesey, Brands Hatch, Knockhill, Donington, Rockingham and others! The dates for 2018 haven't been released yet, so I can't tell you exactly what the calendar consists of. I can tell you the most important consideration is budget, and for a season in JSCC, or Fiestas, you need to be looking at £25k (excluding car, trailer, race suit, boots, Hans device, underwear, gloves, helmet, ARDS course etc) a season, Junior Clios, at least double that, and Ginettas, double it again!! Feel free to PM me, if I can be of further assistance.
Thanks for the replies so far.
The easy one to answer first, yes, I have C+E on my licence.
Ginettajoe - a real eye opener to costs. I thought the Ginetta junior series would be about £50k a season.
£25k is still way beyond our budget unfortunately.
Excluding buying the car/trailer/equipment/clothing etc. I'd hope a season in the little rally car would be no more than 5 thousand!
The easy one to answer first, yes, I have C+E on my licence.
Ginettajoe - a real eye opener to costs. I thought the Ginetta junior series would be about £50k a season.
£25k is still way beyond our budget unfortunately.
Excluding buying the car/trailer/equipment/clothing etc. I'd hope a season in the little rally car would be no more than 5 thousand!
JZZ30 said:
Thanks for the replies so far.
The easy one to answer first, yes, I have C+E on my licence.
Ginettajoe - a real eye opener to costs. I thought the Ginetta junior series would be about £50k a season.
£25k is still way beyond our budget unfortunately.
Excluding buying the car/trailer/equipment/clothing etc. I'd hope a season in the little rally car would be no more than 5 thousand!
Well, I didn't want to put you off the idea, but more importantly, I didn't want you to be blinkered, and begin to go down a route that will come to an abrupt halt because of lack of funds! The easy one to answer first, yes, I have C+E on my licence.
Ginettajoe - a real eye opener to costs. I thought the Ginetta junior series would be about £50k a season.
£25k is still way beyond our budget unfortunately.
Excluding buying the car/trailer/equipment/clothing etc. I'd hope a season in the little rally car would be no more than 5 thousand!
A large proportion of the cost, is what people fail to understand in that to be remotely competitive, they have to test, and when they test, they have to have someone like me sitting with them, although there are one or two exceptions! Generally though, they have to have coaching, and by the time you've finished paying for the day, fuel, fuel to get there, maybe an hotel the night before, the instructor, and general costs like tyres, brake pads etc etc, you will have spent around £1k, so you can quite easily spend £10k over a season just for that. Ginetta juniors works out considerably more, because to be in with a remote chance of having a result, you have to run with a team, so add into the equation the cost of the truck, and staff for the day, and your test (track) day has doubled!! That is before any part of the racing side of things, where body damage adds in another "salary"!!!
I hope this gives you a little more of an understanding into how ridiculous it can be!!
Have you thought about Targa Rallying, that’s just about the cheapest way into a Motor Sport apart from autotesting and trials.
You are reasonably well placed to look at doing the NESCRO series, you could comfortably do the whole series for 5k May be even including a Car!.
Try google NESCRO it should come up.
You are reasonably well placed to look at doing the NESCRO series, you could comfortably do the whole series for 5k May be even including a Car!.
Try google NESCRO it should come up.
ginettajoe said:
Well, I didn't want to put you off the idea, but more importantly, I didn't want you to be blinkered, and begin to go down a route that will come to an abrupt halt because of lack of funds!
A large proportion of the cost, is what people fail to understand in that to be remotely competitive, they have to test, and when they test, they have to have someone like me sitting with them, although there are one or two exceptions! Generally though, they have to have coaching, and by the time you've finished paying for the day, fuel, fuel to get there, maybe an hotel the night before, the instructor, and general costs like tyres, brake pads etc etc, you will have spent around £1k, so you can quite easily spend £10k over a season just for that. Ginetta juniors works out considerably more, because to be in with a remote chance of having a result, you have to run with a team, so add into the equation the cost of the truck, and staff for the day, and your test (track) day has doubled!! That is before any part of the racing side of things, where body damage adds in another "salary"!!!
I hope this gives you a little more of an understanding into how ridiculous it can be!!
Thanks. Very insightful. I suppose it's very easy to forget about (or willfully ignore) some associated costs. A large proportion of the cost, is what people fail to understand in that to be remotely competitive, they have to test, and when they test, they have to have someone like me sitting with them, although there are one or two exceptions! Generally though, they have to have coaching, and by the time you've finished paying for the day, fuel, fuel to get there, maybe an hotel the night before, the instructor, and general costs like tyres, brake pads etc etc, you will have spent around £1k, so you can quite easily spend £10k over a season just for that. Ginetta juniors works out considerably more, because to be in with a remote chance of having a result, you have to run with a team, so add into the equation the cost of the truck, and staff for the day, and your test (track) day has doubled!! That is before any part of the racing side of things, where body damage adds in another "salary"!!!
I hope this gives you a little more of an understanding into how ridiculous it can be!!
If we go for the J1000 rally (I really do think it will be much cheaper than circuit racing), basically my son and I will be the team and any bits we need to repair a k11 Micra should be dirt cheap. I going to speak to a garage that I know preps some rally cars and guage some set up costs from them.
I'll be sure to keep this updated with ongoing running costs for anyone else that may be interested.
My vote would go to Mazda MX5 Racing in either the BRSCC or 5 Club championship.
I've done 3 years of Mazda racing consecutively 2013-2015, 2 years in mk1s and in 2015 I did a year in the mk3 Supercup championship. All BRSCC.
I did a brief spell in 2016 in 5 club to try out a car I bought, and then did a couple of races at start of this year in BRSCC but had bad luck with a crap engine and imminent house move took up a lot of my time and money so I knocked it on the head...I've still got the car and plan to test it then sell it on, and have a break from racing for a while...
So, costs - I reckon including your trailer, race car, helmet, suit etc, race entries, fuel and tyres, repairs. you could do a season for around £15k. the following year obviously cheaper as you start up costs are done. you could be very competitive for around 10k a season there after.
You can buy a decent racer for 5k, it wont allow you to win (unless your lad is dynamite) as the championship is super competitive, and the front runner cars are as tuned as the rules will allow. But it'll give you a good taste. Please don't expect to be winning in your first season.
Parts and that are still cheap (gearbox £50, engine £150 complete, clutch £100 etc). Obviously tuning the engine is the most costly part, unless youre handy yourself, a built engine by the like of Blink motorsport for example is £2000. However once built they usually last a few years with no issues as long as they're looked after.
The grids are usually massive, upwards of 60 cars, so they are split into two, A and B, A being the faster half.
All the races are televised and then put onto youtube also (worth a look).
It is a really good championship and widely respected.
Cheers
John
I've done 3 years of Mazda racing consecutively 2013-2015, 2 years in mk1s and in 2015 I did a year in the mk3 Supercup championship. All BRSCC.
I did a brief spell in 2016 in 5 club to try out a car I bought, and then did a couple of races at start of this year in BRSCC but had bad luck with a crap engine and imminent house move took up a lot of my time and money so I knocked it on the head...I've still got the car and plan to test it then sell it on, and have a break from racing for a while...
So, costs - I reckon including your trailer, race car, helmet, suit etc, race entries, fuel and tyres, repairs. you could do a season for around £15k. the following year obviously cheaper as you start up costs are done. you could be very competitive for around 10k a season there after.
You can buy a decent racer for 5k, it wont allow you to win (unless your lad is dynamite) as the championship is super competitive, and the front runner cars are as tuned as the rules will allow. But it'll give you a good taste. Please don't expect to be winning in your first season.
Parts and that are still cheap (gearbox £50, engine £150 complete, clutch £100 etc). Obviously tuning the engine is the most costly part, unless youre handy yourself, a built engine by the like of Blink motorsport for example is £2000. However once built they usually last a few years with no issues as long as they're looked after.
The grids are usually massive, upwards of 60 cars, so they are split into two, A and B, A being the faster half.
All the races are televised and then put onto youtube also (worth a look).
It is a really good championship and widely respected.
Cheers
John
Have you thought about doing something non MSA affiliated like stock car racing or short oval racing.
Or autograss, you could both race the same car in a few classes if your lad is really young.
It is perhaps not quite as posh as circuit racing, but you don't need pointless ARDS tests and the like, you simply join a category, pay a small fee and then find places to race whatever car you want to use.
Autograss is even cheaper and if you are on a low budget, you can easily find a class that suits that budget and will allow you to compete at the very top with it.
It is very close racing, so much so that you will expect body damage, but it is great fun, less snobby than some circuits stuff, far less prohibitive in terms of clubs, entry fees, where you can and can't race.
For instance if you are prepared to travel you can literally race anywhere. If your car is legal and there are meetings in Wales, East Anglia, Ireland and Kent, you can race at any you choose and be made welcome.
Or autograss, you could both race the same car in a few classes if your lad is really young.
It is perhaps not quite as posh as circuit racing, but you don't need pointless ARDS tests and the like, you simply join a category, pay a small fee and then find places to race whatever car you want to use.
Autograss is even cheaper and if you are on a low budget, you can easily find a class that suits that budget and will allow you to compete at the very top with it.
It is very close racing, so much so that you will expect body damage, but it is great fun, less snobby than some circuits stuff, far less prohibitive in terms of clubs, entry fees, where you can and can't race.
For instance if you are prepared to travel you can literally race anywhere. If your car is legal and there are meetings in Wales, East Anglia, Ireland and Kent, you can race at any you choose and be made welcome.
JohnClem88 said:
My vote would go to Mazda MX5 Racing in either the BRSCC or 5 Club championship.
I've done 3 years of Mazda racing consecutively 2013-2015, 2 years in mk1s and in 2015 I did a year in the mk3 Supercup championship. All BRSCC.
I did a brief spell in 2016 in 5 club to try out a car I bought, and then did a couple of races at start of this year in BRSCC but had bad luck with a crap engine and imminent house move took up a lot of my time and money so I knocked it on the head...I've still got the car and plan to test it then sell it on, and have a break from racing for a while...
So, costs - I reckon including your trailer, race car, helmet, suit etc, race entries, fuel and tyres, repairs. you could do a season for around £15k. the following year obviously cheaper as you start up costs are done. you could be very competitive for around 10k a season there after.
You can buy a decent racer for 5k, it wont allow you to win (unless your lad is dynamite) as the championship is super competitive, and the front runner cars are as tuned as the rules will allow. But it'll give you a good taste. Please don't expect to be winning in your first season.
Parts and that are still cheap (gearbox £50, engine £150 complete, clutch £100 etc). Obviously tuning the engine is the most costly part, unless youre handy yourself, a built engine by the like of Blink motorsport for example is £2000. However once built they usually last a few years with no issues as long as they're looked after.
The grids are usually massive, upwards of 60 cars, so they are split into two, A and B, A being the faster half.
All the races are televised and then put onto youtube also (worth a look).
It is a really good championship and widely respected.
Cheers
John
I love the BRSCC MX5 championship. When I was doing my man maths a couple of years ago it was the championship I chose. I don't think a junior can enter though. I've done 3 years of Mazda racing consecutively 2013-2015, 2 years in mk1s and in 2015 I did a year in the mk3 Supercup championship. All BRSCC.
I did a brief spell in 2016 in 5 club to try out a car I bought, and then did a couple of races at start of this year in BRSCC but had bad luck with a crap engine and imminent house move took up a lot of my time and money so I knocked it on the head...I've still got the car and plan to test it then sell it on, and have a break from racing for a while...
So, costs - I reckon including your trailer, race car, helmet, suit etc, race entries, fuel and tyres, repairs. you could do a season for around £15k. the following year obviously cheaper as you start up costs are done. you could be very competitive for around 10k a season there after.
You can buy a decent racer for 5k, it wont allow you to win (unless your lad is dynamite) as the championship is super competitive, and the front runner cars are as tuned as the rules will allow. But it'll give you a good taste. Please don't expect to be winning in your first season.
Parts and that are still cheap (gearbox £50, engine £150 complete, clutch £100 etc). Obviously tuning the engine is the most costly part, unless youre handy yourself, a built engine by the like of Blink motorsport for example is £2000. However once built they usually last a few years with no issues as long as they're looked after.
The grids are usually massive, upwards of 60 cars, so they are split into two, A and B, A being the faster half.
All the races are televised and then put onto youtube also (worth a look).
It is a really good championship and widely respected.
Cheers
John
But maybe something to look into for the future!
JZZ30 said:
ginettajoe said:
Well, I didn't want to put you off the idea, but more importantly, I didn't want you to be blinkered, and begin to go down a route that will come to an abrupt halt because of lack of funds!
A large proportion of the cost, is what people fail to understand in that to be remotely competitive, they have to test, and when they test, they have to have someone like me sitting with them, although there are one or two exceptions! Generally though, they have to have coaching, and by the time you've finished paying for the day, fuel, fuel to get there, maybe an hotel the night before, the instructor, and general costs like tyres, brake pads etc etc, you will have spent around £1k, so you can quite easily spend £10k over a season just for that. Ginetta juniors works out considerably more, because to be in with a remote chance of having a result, you have to run with a team, so add into the equation the cost of the truck, and staff for the day, and your test (track) day has doubled!! That is before any part of the racing side of things, where body damage adds in another "salary"!!!
I hope this gives you a little more of an understanding into how ridiculous it can be!!
Thanks. Very insightful. I suppose it's very easy to forget about (or willfully ignore) some associated costs. A large proportion of the cost, is what people fail to understand in that to be remotely competitive, they have to test, and when they test, they have to have someone like me sitting with them, although there are one or two exceptions! Generally though, they have to have coaching, and by the time you've finished paying for the day, fuel, fuel to get there, maybe an hotel the night before, the instructor, and general costs like tyres, brake pads etc etc, you will have spent around £1k, so you can quite easily spend £10k over a season just for that. Ginetta juniors works out considerably more, because to be in with a remote chance of having a result, you have to run with a team, so add into the equation the cost of the truck, and staff for the day, and your test (track) day has doubled!! That is before any part of the racing side of things, where body damage adds in another "salary"!!!
I hope this gives you a little more of an understanding into how ridiculous it can be!!
If we go for the J1000 rally (I really do think it will be much cheaper than circuit racing), basically my son and I will be the team and any bits we need to repair a k11 Micra should be dirt cheap. I going to speak to a garage that I know preps some rally cars and guage some set up costs from them.
I'll be sure to keep this updated with ongoing running costs for anyone else that may be interested.
She ended up doing the F1000 rally championship.
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