The 2018 Rallying thread..(WRC, ERC, etc)
Discussion
airbusA346 said:
From what Kris has been posting on social media it sounds like they didn't tell him before releasing the statement.
A repeat of the MINI programme being pulled again then it seems. Absolute s
tshow of people management if it is true that they've dropped him, announced it all before telling him.It is entirely possible the tweet and facebook message he posted has been pre-loaded to publish at a defined date and time
Think he is a great driver, as others have said similar to Mcrae in his aggressiveness and always on the edge . However can't argue with Citroëns decision. Too many crashes and DNF, he is capable of winning and has shown that but needs to be far more consistent. Shame but hopefully he can get another chance somewhere.
I’ve always been a big fan of Meeke he is a brilliant fast and spectacular determined balls out driver but never had much luck and suffers way too many big off’s.
Maybe he is just pushing that car too hard - it’s not a great car and if you have to push that hard all the time there will be crashes - but he has just been crashing far too much.
At what point is enough crashes enough? Very sad to say but looks like the right decision, this crash looked quite normal but the damage was horrific, but there have also been plenty of spectacular crashes where he got away lightly from crashes that could have had much worse ending.
I hope gets another go in a quick car and finds a way to pull it back a bit from all the crashes.
Well now it’s time for us to get behind the flying Welshman with the strange name and funny face - go Boyo! (I recon Evans could be a future WRC champ in the right car) and not only is he fast he very rarely bins it.
Maybe he is just pushing that car too hard - it’s not a great car and if you have to push that hard all the time there will be crashes - but he has just been crashing far too much.
At what point is enough crashes enough? Very sad to say but looks like the right decision, this crash looked quite normal but the damage was horrific, but there have also been plenty of spectacular crashes where he got away lightly from crashes that could have had much worse ending.
I hope gets another go in a quick car and finds a way to pull it back a bit from all the crashes.
Well now it’s time for us to get behind the flying Welshman with the strange name and funny face - go Boyo! (I recon Evans could be a future WRC champ in the right car) and not only is he fast he very rarely bins it.
I think it's pretty poor from Citroen, but their choice. But tootling around in 5,6,7th place ain't going to bring big points home. The car isn't the best they've produced, and Kris is pushing more than he probably should - with the obvious consequences.....
However, another driver has been crashing consistently since he was a teenager in the UK - yet still keeps a drive.......obviously having the right manager and nationality helps.....
However, another driver has been crashing consistently since he was a teenager in the UK - yet still keeps a drive.......obviously having the right manager and nationality helps.....
It's a very hard call but he has been crashing far too often. Citroen obviously had enough. The statement stating for safety concerns is kind of pointing that they feel both crew members were lucky to walk away from the accident in Portugal. Not surprised seeing that picture.
It actually sounds like they wanted to drop him before he killed himself or Paul.
But take Thierry Neuville. He was getting a lot of flack from Hyundai for his mistakes but now he is leading the 2018 Championship. But maybe Meeke has had enough chances.
It's very fine line.
It actually sounds like they wanted to drop him before he killed himself or Paul.
But take Thierry Neuville. He was getting a lot of flack from Hyundai for his mistakes but now he is leading the 2018 Championship. But maybe Meeke has had enough chances.
It's very fine line.
rallycross said:
I’ve always been a big fan of Meeke he is a brilliant fast and spectacular determined balls out driver but never had much luck and suffers way too many big off’s.
Maybe he is just pushing that car too hard - it’s not a great car and if you have to push that hard all the time there will be crashes - but he has just been crashing far too much.
At what point is enough crashes enough? Very sad to say but looks like the right decision, this crash looked quite normal but the damage was horrific, but there have also been plenty of spectacular crashes where he got away lightly from crashes that could have had much worse ending.
I hope gets another go in a quick car and finds a way to pull it back a bit from all the crashes.
Well now it’s time for us to get behind the flying Welshman with the strange name and funny face - go Boyo! (I recon Evans could be a future WRC champ in the right car) and not only is he fast he very rarely bins it.
Evans is good but is he Ogier-Neuville good? I don't think so yet. As long as these guys are around, he will not be a WRC Champion and by the time they retire, Finland or France will bring another prodigy. Maybe he is just pushing that car too hard - it’s not a great car and if you have to push that hard all the time there will be crashes - but he has just been crashing far too much.
At what point is enough crashes enough? Very sad to say but looks like the right decision, this crash looked quite normal but the damage was horrific, but there have also been plenty of spectacular crashes where he got away lightly from crashes that could have had much worse ending.
I hope gets another go in a quick car and finds a way to pull it back a bit from all the crashes.
Well now it’s time for us to get behind the flying Welshman with the strange name and funny face - go Boyo! (I recon Evans could be a future WRC champ in the right car) and not only is he fast he very rarely bins it.
E34-3.2 said:
Evans is good but is he Ogier-Neuville good? I don't think so yet. As long as these guys are around, he will not be a WRC Champion and by the time they retire, Finland or France will bring another prodigy.
Why is it that France keep on producing great drivers.You can understand the connection to Finland but why is French drivers so good?
Do they have a drivers academy?
ELUSIVEJIM said:
Why is it that France keep on producing great drivers.
You can understand the connection to Finland but why is French drivers so good?
Do they have a drivers academy?
Yes, they have very good rally driving programs in place. Ogier was discovered by rallye jeunes FFSA, it costed him something like £25 to start is career, the rest is history. Loeb was discovered by them as well: https://www.ffsa.org/univers/rallye/vie-f%C3%A9d%C...You can understand the connection to Finland but why is French drivers so good?
Do they have a drivers academy?
The local rallies in France are just something else (my local seen is insane!). I haven't been in Finland but I reckon that they must be the only other country who can produce so many good drivers. It looks like that the regulation with WRC cars favor the guys who have raced tarmac rallies more often. maybe the cars have so much more grip, traction that a clean driver will benefit over a guy who has tendency to slide a bit more? not sure.
E34-3.2 said:
Evans is good but is he Ogier-Neuville good? I don't think so yet. As long as these guys are around, he will not be a WRC Champion and by the time they retire, Finland or France will bring another prodigy.
I think I would agree - for uk to get a WDC in WRC will be very difficult so many good drivers - but I was thinking with my Brit hat on and who do we support now if not Meeke. E34-3.2 said:
Yes, they have very good rally driving programs in place. Ogier was discovered by rallye jeunes FFSA, it costed him something like £25 to start is career, the rest is history. Loeb was discovered by them as well: https://www.ffsa.org/univers/rallye/vie-f%C3%A9d%C...
The local rallies in France are just something else (my local seen is insane!). I haven't been in Finland but I reckon that they must be the only other country who can produce so many good drivers. It looks like that the regulation with WRC cars favor the guys who have raced tarmac rallies more often. maybe the cars have so much more grip, traction that a clean driver will benefit over a guy who has tendency to slide a bit more? not sure.
Funny enough I remember McRae struggling with the newer WRC cars as they were more like touring cars to drive.The local rallies in France are just something else (my local seen is insane!). I haven't been in Finland but I reckon that they must be the only other country who can produce so many good drivers. It looks like that the regulation with WRC cars favor the guys who have raced tarmac rallies more often. maybe the cars have so much more grip, traction that a clean driver will benefit over a guy who has tendency to slide a bit more? not sure.
The scandinavian flick was a thing of the past as it was slower as McRae found out when trying to drive the Citroen in the same team as Loeb.
It is fantastic seeing what the French do program wise. Unfortunately I can't see it ever happening in the UK
rallycross said:
I think I would agree - for uk to get a WDC in WRC will be very difficult so many good drivers - but I was thinking with my Brit hat on and who do we support now if not Meeke.
I do like Craig Breen. The guy is so emotional after the terrible loss of his co driver. When he gets a good result you just see the joy in his eyes.But I doubt he will ever be good enough to take it that step further to compete with the top WRC drivers.
It's a sensible call, not a tough call. The reality is being fast before you crash isn't worth much to anyone. Nice guy, wears his heart on his sleeve, but it's like all professional sports its a results if not costs based business. His costs were far outweighing his results.
Edited by epom on Thursday 24th May 22:26
Another way to put it, if we Rally fans were going to club together and put our own money into a team and crowd fund it, would want KM in the car, would you accept Meeke's crash rate? If you were the car owner you'd watch every stage thinking you might end up getting your car returned to you on a low loader in kit form after yet another off needing a re-shell.
None of the Seb's do that.
None of the Seb's do that.
rallycross said:
Another way to put it, if we Rally fans were going to club together and put our own money into a team and crowd fund it, would want KM in the car, would you accept Meeke's crash rate? If you were the car owner you'd watch every stage thinking you might end up getting your car returned to you on a low loader in kit form after yet another off needing a re-shell.
None of the Seb's do that.
Exactly.None of the Seb's do that.
A real shame as he at times had amazing speed.
But it just didn't happen enough
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 24th May 22:51
I can’t help but feel for Kris. I think he’s a driver who’s misplaced in time. His style and aggression simply doesn’t suit these generation of cars. Had he been around in the top flight 15-20yrs ago then he’s not be having as many accident or we’d not be seeing his driving as to aggressive and “balls out”.
These new generation cars need smooth and precise control and since the 2018 evolution they seem to be even more jittery than last year meaning that when driven with their tolerance they are devastatingly good, but the line for error is immensely thin and once crossed there’s no saving the car from an accident. I also think the cornering abilities of the cars make he accidents bigger than they should be as they simply can’t scrubboff as much speed hear days.
His wins have been on events where the roads have naturally allowed him to be a bit more aggressive by being wider roads and forgiving surfaces.
I don’t think there’s any doubting Kris’ natural ability either. As said he’s devastatingly good when it’s all clicking. But I think his mental state (sonto speak) has been affective by the poor management he’s had since stepping up to the top step of the WRC. He thought he’d made it with Mini and was getting a good car going when they suddenly withdrew. Then he floated about at Citroen driving a car developed by and for Loeb. But he still put on a show with it when able to. But they still didn’t commit to him probably when he needed it most for his confidence and mental state. Then he found himself the lead driver and developer and they still couldn’t get it right and he fronted the blame. That’s gotta be tough to take. Then he got dropped last year for a rally. Another kick in the teeth. And then we find ourselves here.
Had Kris been under the tutorage of someone like Malcolm then I think we’d be seeing a different driver now. Look at the work he did with Jari, Ott and Thierry. All crash happy in their time at Ford but worked through it. He’s even doing it with Elfyn now after telling him to get his arse into gear at Portugal.
I hope this isn’t the last we are of Kris and that he gets a seat elsewhere, somewhere he’s wanted and welcome.
I also hope this doesn’t put too much pressure on Breen as he’s not ready for it yet either.
I can see Mads filling Kris’ seat for the rest of the year and picking up points for Citroen as he’s happy to sit mid table these days. I can’t see a win in him tho and haven’t for ages, which is a shame as I liked Mads but he seems to have gone off the boil since he joined Citroen a few yrs ago.
These new generation cars need smooth and precise control and since the 2018 evolution they seem to be even more jittery than last year meaning that when driven with their tolerance they are devastatingly good, but the line for error is immensely thin and once crossed there’s no saving the car from an accident. I also think the cornering abilities of the cars make he accidents bigger than they should be as they simply can’t scrubboff as much speed hear days.
His wins have been on events where the roads have naturally allowed him to be a bit more aggressive by being wider roads and forgiving surfaces.
I don’t think there’s any doubting Kris’ natural ability either. As said he’s devastatingly good when it’s all clicking. But I think his mental state (sonto speak) has been affective by the poor management he’s had since stepping up to the top step of the WRC. He thought he’d made it with Mini and was getting a good car going when they suddenly withdrew. Then he floated about at Citroen driving a car developed by and for Loeb. But he still put on a show with it when able to. But they still didn’t commit to him probably when he needed it most for his confidence and mental state. Then he found himself the lead driver and developer and they still couldn’t get it right and he fronted the blame. That’s gotta be tough to take. Then he got dropped last year for a rally. Another kick in the teeth. And then we find ourselves here.
Had Kris been under the tutorage of someone like Malcolm then I think we’d be seeing a different driver now. Look at the work he did with Jari, Ott and Thierry. All crash happy in their time at Ford but worked through it. He’s even doing it with Elfyn now after telling him to get his arse into gear at Portugal.
I hope this isn’t the last we are of Kris and that he gets a seat elsewhere, somewhere he’s wanted and welcome.
I also hope this doesn’t put too much pressure on Breen as he’s not ready for it yet either.
I can see Mads filling Kris’ seat for the rest of the year and picking up points for Citroen as he’s happy to sit mid table these days. I can’t see a win in him tho and haven’t for ages, which is a shame as I liked Mads but he seems to have gone off the boil since he joined Citroen a few yrs ago.
It’s a shame, but probably the right decision on Citroen’s part.
I’d be surprised if Kris surfaces somewhere else in the WRC, though he may get a job as a test /development driver, if he’s lucky ...
Personally I think he had a VERY lucky escape. The safety systems in modern WRC cars are hugely effective, but when you end up playing pinball with the trees at the speed the current WRC cars are capable of on stage, fate will determine whether you walk away or die.
“Safety” was a non-negotiable get out clause for Citroen in this instance, and the WRC doesn’t need the bad publicity the death of a top driver would bring, but worse still, Portugal being Portugal, there could have been 15-20 spectators on the outside of that corner (and not so long ago there would have been) how many would have perished when Kris went off last weekend ?
I’d be surprised if Kris surfaces somewhere else in the WRC, though he may get a job as a test /development driver, if he’s lucky ...
Personally I think he had a VERY lucky escape. The safety systems in modern WRC cars are hugely effective, but when you end up playing pinball with the trees at the speed the current WRC cars are capable of on stage, fate will determine whether you walk away or die.
“Safety” was a non-negotiable get out clause for Citroen in this instance, and the WRC doesn’t need the bad publicity the death of a top driver would bring, but worse still, Portugal being Portugal, there could have been 15-20 spectators on the outside of that corner (and not so long ago there would have been) how many would have perished when Kris went off last weekend ?
Interesting comments from Hyundai man Alain Penasse. - https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/136396/hyundai-...
I might be reading into it wrong but hes all but given Dani and Hayden the chance to walk away from the team to take Meeke's empty seat, even though he says next season, could we see a driver switch mid season. Unless the Mads Ostberg deal is done and just waiting on the ink to dry.
I like Mads and can see him doing well if he does indeed fill the seat. however I simply don't see him winning an event for them. He seems to have lost some of the fight the last few years but is consistent in finishing which will of course keep Citroen bean counters happy.
Breen now surely must be Citroen's best chance at a win.
Interesting to also see Malcolm say hes happy with his current line up and not say anything else about Meeke. I cant remember if they did fall out all those years ago when he worked for them and became a driver at Peugeot/Citroen instead. That being said MW does keep his cards close to his chest more these days as hes the main bean counter for them. As much as I'd like to see Kris in a Fiesta I doubt the budget could handle him while Malcolm hones him in. Bit to early in the season to start thinking of drivers seats for next season. But could be a big switch around I think, possibly even losing JML from Toyota if his season doesn't pick up. Ogier retiring if he keeps getting screwed over by the FIA and misses out on the title.
I might be reading into it wrong but hes all but given Dani and Hayden the chance to walk away from the team to take Meeke's empty seat, even though he says next season, could we see a driver switch mid season. Unless the Mads Ostberg deal is done and just waiting on the ink to dry.
I like Mads and can see him doing well if he does indeed fill the seat. however I simply don't see him winning an event for them. He seems to have lost some of the fight the last few years but is consistent in finishing which will of course keep Citroen bean counters happy.
Breen now surely must be Citroen's best chance at a win.
Interesting to also see Malcolm say hes happy with his current line up and not say anything else about Meeke. I cant remember if they did fall out all those years ago when he worked for them and became a driver at Peugeot/Citroen instead. That being said MW does keep his cards close to his chest more these days as hes the main bean counter for them. As much as I'd like to see Kris in a Fiesta I doubt the budget could handle him while Malcolm hones him in. Bit to early in the season to start thinking of drivers seats for next season. But could be a big switch around I think, possibly even losing JML from Toyota if his season doesn't pick up. Ogier retiring if he keeps getting screwed over by the FIA and misses out on the title.
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