RE: Decree threatens motor sport
Tuesday 19th April 2005
Autograss in East AngliaLocal motor clubs throughout the UK face a threat from new government regulations forbidding the use of agricultural land for motor sport.
Decree threatens motor sport
Grass roots events could be declared illegal
Autograss in East Anglia
Rally co-driver Graham Raeburn said: "Lots of grass roots motoring events throughout the UK are threatened by the latest countryside decree. Some are events which have run regularly since pre-war days and are part of motor sport heritage. It's the biggest single threat we have faced as a sport in years."
Club officials claim that the new regulations were passed by Whitehall "without any consultation".
Farmers who currently permit motorcycle or car events to use otherwise idle land (which has been designated as 'set aside') will in future be allowed to hold events such as local carnivals, horse events and pop concerts, but motor sport will be specifically banned.
This will affect thousands of events for motorcycles, whose governing body, the Auto Cycle Union, is said to be "devastated".
For those competing on four wheels, the new regulations will mainly affect more than 1,000 autograss events which run outside the remit of the MSA, the UK's main motor sport governing body, but about 40 per cent of club motor sport events authorised by the MSA will also face restrictions, including sporting trials, production car trials, 4x4 events and some rallies.
The new rules from DEFRA came into force by decree last month, without any obvious consultation with the hundreds of clubs who organise affected local events.
Discussion
They are not being banned, what is happining is that it will stop farmers being able to claim their set aside payments on which they rely. It is ONLY THE UK LABOUR PARTY that is doing this it is not an EU thing.
below is from a bike mag. Thousands of people compete every week in MX,Enduro's,grasstrack etc and this will pretty much all go.
"IT is impossible to overestimate the potential (wholly intentional) damage that the Government, through its DEFRA office, has done to off-road motorcycle sport with its nasty, devisive and pin-point accurate, targeted attack. (See lead story, page 2).
Let's get one thing straight right from the start. The motor sport element is NOT a directive from Brussels, it comes straight from the heart of New Labour who have a deep-seated hatred of anything and everything remotely concerned with the countryside – except for rambling in it occasionally from one's weekend holiday home.
The Single Payment Scheme is indeed an EU initiative, and in itself probably has much to commend it, making it much simpler for farmers to claim their subsidies.
But the decision to effectively BAN motor sports, using the SPS as both smokescreen and sledge-hammer, is pure New Labour politics.
You may think that I am being over-dramatic. Believe me I am not. Read the DEFRA News Release in full (www.defra.gov.uk/news/2005)
You will see that other activities are accounted for and gracefully 'allowed' either unrestricted or restricted access by the urban-based New Labour power-brokers.
Even car boot sales.
I single-out the latter because this government has previously hidden behind boot sales in earlier attempts to curtail motor and motorcycle sports.
There is no attempt to conceal their true target now.
Under note C of the defra release: Activities that are inconsistent with the land being considered as remaining in agricultural use there is only one item. It states simply and cruelly: All motor sports.
After years of threats and half-hearted attempts the motor sport cat is finally out of the bag.
The timing is devastating as, in reality, with a general election upon us, Parliament will be dissolved and the political world is focussed on only one thing.
That the sport has to fight this backdoor 'ban' is obvious. Probably on several fronts.
The most obvious is the General Election itself. Vote 'em out!
Meantime, we all have to do whatever can be done. LARA has asked for 'facts' to base a defense on – let's give them what they want.
An obvious contact is Sports Minister Richard Caborn. There is a simple question to put to Mr Caborn. As Minister for Sport, is he for this ban or is he against it? ACU Chief Exec Neil Hellings was due to ask that very question on Wednesday.
The ideal answer is for Mr Caborn to stand up and state that he is against any legislation that curtails sport of any kind and that he will fight to overturn the ban.
Don't hold your breath.
One small point that I would like to know the truth about is, could the effective motor sport ban be as much about the man implementing it as the government he represents? Minister for Food and Farming Larry Whitty is well-known for his pro-rambling stance. It could be that many of his colleagues don't actually share his obvious hatred of motor/ motorcycle sports and might just bend given some vote-frightening political pressure.
Again, don't put all your money on that happening.
There may even be loop-holes in the legislation that allow motor-sports to take place in certain instances without a farmer losing his subsidy. The problem with this is, even the thought of losing guaranteed income is going to cause a landowner to simply say No. And who can blame him."
below is from a bike mag. Thousands of people compete every week in MX,Enduro's,grasstrack etc and this will pretty much all go.
"IT is impossible to overestimate the potential (wholly intentional) damage that the Government, through its DEFRA office, has done to off-road motorcycle sport with its nasty, devisive and pin-point accurate, targeted attack. (See lead story, page 2).
Let's get one thing straight right from the start. The motor sport element is NOT a directive from Brussels, it comes straight from the heart of New Labour who have a deep-seated hatred of anything and everything remotely concerned with the countryside – except for rambling in it occasionally from one's weekend holiday home.
The Single Payment Scheme is indeed an EU initiative, and in itself probably has much to commend it, making it much simpler for farmers to claim their subsidies.
But the decision to effectively BAN motor sports, using the SPS as both smokescreen and sledge-hammer, is pure New Labour politics.
You may think that I am being over-dramatic. Believe me I am not. Read the DEFRA News Release in full (www.defra.gov.uk/news/2005)
You will see that other activities are accounted for and gracefully 'allowed' either unrestricted or restricted access by the urban-based New Labour power-brokers.
Even car boot sales.
I single-out the latter because this government has previously hidden behind boot sales in earlier attempts to curtail motor and motorcycle sports.
There is no attempt to conceal their true target now.
Under note C of the defra release: Activities that are inconsistent with the land being considered as remaining in agricultural use there is only one item. It states simply and cruelly: All motor sports.
After years of threats and half-hearted attempts the motor sport cat is finally out of the bag.
The timing is devastating as, in reality, with a general election upon us, Parliament will be dissolved and the political world is focussed on only one thing.
That the sport has to fight this backdoor 'ban' is obvious. Probably on several fronts.
The most obvious is the General Election itself. Vote 'em out!
Meantime, we all have to do whatever can be done. LARA has asked for 'facts' to base a defense on – let's give them what they want.
An obvious contact is Sports Minister Richard Caborn. There is a simple question to put to Mr Caborn. As Minister for Sport, is he for this ban or is he against it? ACU Chief Exec Neil Hellings was due to ask that very question on Wednesday.
The ideal answer is for Mr Caborn to stand up and state that he is against any legislation that curtails sport of any kind and that he will fight to overturn the ban.
Don't hold your breath.
One small point that I would like to know the truth about is, could the effective motor sport ban be as much about the man implementing it as the government he represents? Minister for Food and Farming Larry Whitty is well-known for his pro-rambling stance. It could be that many of his colleagues don't actually share his obvious hatred of motor/ motorcycle sports and might just bend given some vote-frightening political pressure.
Again, don't put all your money on that happening.
There may even be loop-holes in the legislation that allow motor-sports to take place in certain instances without a farmer losing his subsidy. The problem with this is, even the thought of losing guaranteed income is going to cause a landowner to simply say No. And who can blame him."
This is in addtion to them imposing rediculous noise restrictions on circuits that have been running since the 50's. I think they've got it in for the recreational or sporting motorist / biker. So much so that they're out to destroy the motorsport industry in this country, one of the few things that we're actually world leaders at.
All of this comes down to pandering to the NIMBY, Daily Mail reading, interfering busy-bidy c**ts that just can't live and let live.
I've vented my spleen about this left right and centre to no avail, I can only hope that everybody uses their vote accordingly to get these car hating t**ts out of office. I've had enough of being taxed to the hilt and treated like a criminal.
All of this comes down to pandering to the NIMBY, Daily Mail reading, interfering busy-bidy c**ts that just can't live and let live.
I've vented my spleen about this left right and centre to no avail, I can only hope that everybody uses their vote accordingly to get these car hating t**ts out of office. I've had enough of being taxed to the hilt and treated like a criminal.
The threat is rather overstated, and as I understood setaside, as a landowner you were not able to make money on that land in such an agreement (ie hire it for horse show / pop concert etc.
Given that the rate is IRO £100 per acre, then there should not be too much expense in removing the area specifically used for motorsport (ie exact track dimensions - and still IACS eligibility for the land "inside" the circuit) from the IACS registered land. Sounds like MSA need to get a land agent to draw up guidelines for organisers to approach landowners with, if it is a case of paying a few hundred quid per venue as compensation, then there should be little issue
DEFRA text here
www.defra.gov.uk/farm/capreform/singlepay/land/pdf/nonag-use.pdf
>> Edited by chickensoup on Tuesday 19th April 12:43
Given that the rate is IRO £100 per acre, then there should not be too much expense in removing the area specifically used for motorsport (ie exact track dimensions - and still IACS eligibility for the land "inside" the circuit) from the IACS registered land. Sounds like MSA need to get a land agent to draw up guidelines for organisers to approach landowners with, if it is a case of paying a few hundred quid per venue as compensation, then there should be little issue
DEFRA text here
www.defra.gov.uk/farm/capreform/singlepay/land/pdf/nonag-use.pdf
>> Edited by chickensoup on Tuesday 19th April 12:43
Unfortunately Chicken soup you are wrong, it effects the whole area being used including space for parking, access etc etc.Its is speceficly aimed at motorsport.
"This legislation will effectively put an end to Enduros, Trials, Grass track, Long Distance trails etc... where fields are part of the track OR CAR PARK AREA. Please note that the rules also state that the restrictions apply to any part of The HOLDING... I.E. if a farmer allows one field to be used for an Enduro or car park for the event then ALL his farm is ruled out for the set aside payment.
This will affect Motorcross tracks where it is on part of a Farm Holding. Either the field is sold off from the rest of the Farm or the farmer will lose payments for all the other fields on the farm as well.
Previous to this CHANGE a farmer could use any part of his land for other non agricultural use while allowing set aside on the remaining part of his "holding" (FARM). He could also allow other use for 28 days of the year and still keep the set aside payment. However motor vehicle events are specifically banned.
So a farmer could allow 28 days a year of Enduros and still keep his setaside payments. NOW HE CANT...
"This legislation will effectively put an end to Enduros, Trials, Grass track, Long Distance trails etc... where fields are part of the track OR CAR PARK AREA. Please note that the rules also state that the restrictions apply to any part of The HOLDING... I.E. if a farmer allows one field to be used for an Enduro or car park for the event then ALL his farm is ruled out for the set aside payment.
This will affect Motorcross tracks where it is on part of a Farm Holding. Either the field is sold off from the rest of the Farm or the farmer will lose payments for all the other fields on the farm as well.
Previous to this CHANGE a farmer could use any part of his land for other non agricultural use while allowing set aside on the remaining part of his "holding" (FARM). He could also allow other use for 28 days of the year and still keep the set aside payment. However motor vehicle events are specifically banned.
So a farmer could allow 28 days a year of Enduros and still keep his setaside payments. NOW HE CANT...
The problem is that land has to be de-registered as agricultual land in order to be used by any motorsport activity - this is a permanent choice, DEFRA have no mechanism for inroducing land back to the system. Land owners are not willing to devalue their land by doing this and tenant farmers are not allowed to do so, under terms of standard agricultural agreements.
DEFRA have stated that breaking this motorsport ban will lead to fines of up to all of the grant on the whole agricultural holding!
This is a concerted and organised attack on motor racing by the same left wing politicians who were determined to ban hunting as they regarded it as 'elitist'.
Gavin Scott
DEFRA have stated that breaking this motorsport ban will lead to fines of up to all of the grant on the whole agricultural holding!
This is a concerted and organised attack on motor racing by the same left wing politicians who were determined to ban hunting as they regarded it as 'elitist'.
Gavin Scott
Thats it.
Simply, they make it easier for a farmer to claim his subsidy on his land in one big lump sum, rather than a bit at a time through individual parcels, they do the whole holding if I remember correctly.
So, since the farmer is getting subsidised for the whole holding, he can't then make money on top of that without permission.
My dad has been pulled up on land use for corporate use, car boot sales, etc etc.
They say diversify, but as soon as they do, they get the law on their backs, and this is yet another thing stopping them from making an honest buck!
The farmers should take the desired land out of claim full stop, and then rent it. I'm sure the motorsport associations could easily chip up the cost of lost subsidy for that small parcel of land over a year! Easily!!!
Farmer will make ten fold using the land for that purpose than growing crops or getting subsidy imho! Labour already fooked farming up good and proper, then whinge when the farmers try using their initiative!
Problem is, like has been said earlier, this is a NEW law that has been brought in. Labour are shits to the rural economy. Just like with roads and speeding, they are not out for the common good, just to get rid of anything the nimby whingers don't like in "their" new countryside (even though 90% of the countryside populous just moved there in the last 20 years)...
Don't expect Labour to let the motorsports carry on, they clearly have an agenda to get rid of it with such a calculated law!
Labour, standing up for the whinging moaning t
ts with nothing better to do, making 1% of the population happy, the other 99% get fooked!
Dave
Simply, they make it easier for a farmer to claim his subsidy on his land in one big lump sum, rather than a bit at a time through individual parcels, they do the whole holding if I remember correctly.
So, since the farmer is getting subsidised for the whole holding, he can't then make money on top of that without permission.
My dad has been pulled up on land use for corporate use, car boot sales, etc etc.
They say diversify, but as soon as they do, they get the law on their backs, and this is yet another thing stopping them from making an honest buck!
The farmers should take the desired land out of claim full stop, and then rent it. I'm sure the motorsport associations could easily chip up the cost of lost subsidy for that small parcel of land over a year! Easily!!!
Farmer will make ten fold using the land for that purpose than growing crops or getting subsidy imho! Labour already fooked farming up good and proper, then whinge when the farmers try using their initiative!
Problem is, like has been said earlier, this is a NEW law that has been brought in. Labour are shits to the rural economy. Just like with roads and speeding, they are not out for the common good, just to get rid of anything the nimby whingers don't like in "their" new countryside (even though 90% of the countryside populous just moved there in the last 20 years)...
Don't expect Labour to let the motorsports carry on, they clearly have an agenda to get rid of it with such a calculated law!
Labour, standing up for the whinging moaning t
ts with nothing better to do, making 1% of the population happy, the other 99% get fooked! Dave
These people are truly the most devisive, evil, scum sucking ba**ards this country has ever known. Everywhere you look they've got their grubby, jealous mitts in trying f**k it up for anyone who doesn't think exactly like them and their Islington cycle-Nazi urban trendy f**kwit supporters. Think I'll get on the tube and fo burn down some of their houses tonight, f***ing c***ts the lot of 'em!!!!!
Here here. This Government has systematically destroyed farming and the rural way of life. They are now removing a much needed source of income for farmers. No doubt they will also ban game shooting as well which will yet further crucify the poor sods. Go on buy a KTM and a shot gun and help a farmer!!.
Flippen eck what's the matter with this flamming country,i really cannot see the point of stopping something that has been going for years surely it must be up to the farmers what they do with their land crikey next you'll getting arrested for farting in your own backyard!!!!!!!!!!!!
Once again I am apalled.
First country pursuits.
Now Motorsport.
They are coming for us:
Its all happening.
First country pursuits.
Now Motorsport.
They are coming for us:
greatest_band_in_the_world said:
The night is black
Without a moon
The air is thick, and still
The vigilantes gather on
The lonely torchlit hill
Features distorted in the flickering light
The faces are twisted and grotesque
Silent and stern in the sweltering night
The mob moves like demons possessed
Quiet in conscience, calm in their right ---
Confident their ways are best
The righteous rise
With burning eyes
Of hatred and ill-will
Madmen fed on fear and lies
To beat, and burn, and kill
They say there are strangers, who threaten us
In our immigrants and infidels
They say there is strangeness, too dangerous
In our theatres and bookstore shelves
That those who know what’s best for us ---
Must rise and save us from ourselves
Quick to judge
Quick to anger
Slow to understand
Ignorance and prejudice
And fear
Walk hand in hand
Its all happening.
Quoting from the DEFRA document:
A. Generally permitted activities
These activities should be permitted without restriction and include:-
· Walking*
· Bird spotting
· School or university nature or farm visits
· Horse riding along bridleways for which no charge is made*
· Bicycle riding along defined paths or bridleways for which no charge is made*
· Fishing
· Hedge laying competitions, local ploughing competitions or other cultivation demonstrations within the applicable GAEC rules (excluding events where trade stands are present – these would fall under category C)
· Shooting (game)
· Deer Stalking
· Drag hunting
(*Paths or bridleways that are metalled or surfaced would in any event be considered ineligible land)
B. Activities with greater restriction
Activities in this category will be permitted up to a 28 day limit. Examples are:-
· Shooting (clay)
· Car boot sales
· Car parking whether associated with any of the activities listed in this note or not.
· Country fairs and shows
· Farm auctions and sales
· Equestrian activities (including horse riding generally except along recognised bridleways for which no charge is made)
· Paragliding, hang-gliding, ballooning etc
· Festivals and events
· Scout or guide camps or similar
· TV and film locations
· Caravan sites (for periods of more than 28 days, the affected area should not be used to support a claim. This need not affect a whole field.)
C. Activities that are inconsistent with the land being considered as remaining in agricultural use.
These include:-
· All motor sports (this does not include static car events)
· Where the principal purpose of the land is for recreational activities, such as a golf course, other permanent sports facilities or gallops.
Now I can understand (to a degree) a distinction between activities that may or may not be appropriate to allowing landowners to claim set-aside subsidy. I can understand an intention for a permanent, commercial operation (say the infield of Silverstone) being prevented from 'milking the system'. But how in God's name can a temporary, limited use activity (as I would expect most off-track racing is) be considered more incompatible than a festival or county fair? It can't be damage to the land, nor can it be noise & nuisance (and I assume the landowner requires local planning permission anyway)
But enough ranting, some basic questions:
- Was this really introduced without consultation? Should the landowners, ACU, MSA equivalent for grasstracking and others have reasonably foreseen this?
- What are the ACU (and their equivalent in the car fraternity) doing about this?
- What can we do to support them?
A. Generally permitted activities
These activities should be permitted without restriction and include:-
· Walking*
· Bird spotting
· School or university nature or farm visits
· Horse riding along bridleways for which no charge is made*
· Bicycle riding along defined paths or bridleways for which no charge is made*
· Fishing
· Hedge laying competitions, local ploughing competitions or other cultivation demonstrations within the applicable GAEC rules (excluding events where trade stands are present – these would fall under category C)
· Shooting (game)
· Deer Stalking
· Drag hunting
(*Paths or bridleways that are metalled or surfaced would in any event be considered ineligible land)
B. Activities with greater restriction
Activities in this category will be permitted up to a 28 day limit. Examples are:-
· Shooting (clay)
· Car boot sales
· Car parking whether associated with any of the activities listed in this note or not.
· Country fairs and shows
· Farm auctions and sales
· Equestrian activities (including horse riding generally except along recognised bridleways for which no charge is made)
· Paragliding, hang-gliding, ballooning etc
· Festivals and events
· Scout or guide camps or similar
· TV and film locations
· Caravan sites (for periods of more than 28 days, the affected area should not be used to support a claim. This need not affect a whole field.)
C. Activities that are inconsistent with the land being considered as remaining in agricultural use.
These include:-
· All motor sports (this does not include static car events)
· Where the principal purpose of the land is for recreational activities, such as a golf course, other permanent sports facilities or gallops.
Now I can understand (to a degree) a distinction between activities that may or may not be appropriate to allowing landowners to claim set-aside subsidy. I can understand an intention for a permanent, commercial operation (say the infield of Silverstone) being prevented from 'milking the system'. But how in God's name can a temporary, limited use activity (as I would expect most off-track racing is) be considered more incompatible than a festival or county fair? It can't be damage to the land, nor can it be noise & nuisance (and I assume the landowner requires local planning permission anyway)
But enough ranting, some basic questions:
- Was this really introduced without consultation? Should the landowners, ACU, MSA equivalent for grasstracking and others have reasonably foreseen this?
- What are the ACU (and their equivalent in the car fraternity) doing about this?
- What can we do to support them?
Noise is one of the major issues here, unfortunately there are still people going to events making excessive noise who are just shooting themselves in the foot.
Look around on the web and see how to remove baffles from your dirt bike to make it twice as loud then go green laning and spoil it for everyone else, or check these very forums on how to avoid the noise tests at the Nurburgring, or how Spa is the place to go because you can be as noisy as you want (even though you're probably braking the law getting there)
It's all going to bite in the future, this was drummed into us at fun Enduro's 20 years ago when we were told to show a bit of consderation or we might lose the land, did anyone listen? only the considerate ones have the right to complain.
The only option is for the government to set up some subsidised facilities near busy motorways or industrial estates.
This is not a UK problem either, cant blame Labour for everything.
Look around on the web and see how to remove baffles from your dirt bike to make it twice as loud then go green laning and spoil it for everyone else, or check these very forums on how to avoid the noise tests at the Nurburgring, or how Spa is the place to go because you can be as noisy as you want (even though you're probably braking the law getting there)
It's all going to bite in the future, this was drummed into us at fun Enduro's 20 years ago when we were told to show a bit of consderation or we might lose the land, did anyone listen? only the considerate ones have the right to complain.
The only option is for the government to set up some subsidised facilities near busy motorways or industrial estates.
This is not a UK problem either, cant blame Labour for everything.
I raced extensivly throughout the UK & Europe in the nineties and now enduro race bikes and without exception the Enduro bike race organizers are far more considerate on the subject of noise than the circuit boys are, to the point of banning particular models of bike regardless of exhaust fitted. Some even make you start the race with a cold engine to keep the noise to an absolute minimum before hand. I don't suggest this for circuits for one minute but unless a degree of self regulation is adopted the rules will be forced on them. Just as an aside two of the key policy makers in the latest Defra legislation are comitted ramblers. nuff said.
sh1 said:
This is not a UK problem either, cant blame Labour for everything.
I can and I WILL!
What is wrong about this is that the lack of consultation is downright indicative of the low and devious way in which Labour operate. If you remember a short while back, they tried to ban rural motorsport by wanting to take away the limited change of use provision, in effect, making the use of land require planning permission to hold such an event, which of course, the local council would never grant, the excuse they used on that occasion was getting shot of car boot sales which were considered to be major sources of stolen and counterfeit goods. There was a concerted campaign by motor clubs around the UK with members lobbying their MPs and strangely we though the plans died a death. But they didn't did they? The original intention was still there and what they have done is find another mechanism by which they can implement a ban on rural motorsport, only this time, instead of telling anyone about it, they kept quiet, so we didn't find out until it was too late! A real Vogons vs Arthur Dent trick, " the plans have been on display at the local inter-galactic planning office..." , you thought it was fiction, no, just politics in action.
Labour do not care what you want, the only way to send them the message that you will not tolerate this kind of behaviour is to vote them out of office.
And the rest that I couldn't get to fit on the last post...
Mr Orwells 1984 should not be used as a party's hidden manifesto, but in this case that is exactly what appears to be happening. Give these scum another term and you won't be able to leave your front door without some officious little scumbag demanding that you show them your papers.
After that my friend, nothing short of blood will regain our freedoms, I would spare you that.
Mr Orwells 1984 should not be used as a party's hidden manifesto, but in this case that is exactly what appears to be happening. Give these scum another term and you won't be able to leave your front door without some officious little scumbag demanding that you show them your papers.
After that my friend, nothing short of blood will regain our freedoms, I would spare you that.
Sh1 said
"This is not a UK problem either, cant blame Labour for everything"
You couldn't be more wrong. For once this piece of political rubbish is not from Brussels it is solely a UK labour party directive, which luckily could give the only glimer of hope as some of the ACU boys are talking about going to the European courts to have it overturned. What a load of old crap.
"This is not a UK problem either, cant blame Labour for everything"
You couldn't be more wrong. For once this piece of political rubbish is not from Brussels it is solely a UK labour party directive, which luckily could give the only glimer of hope as some of the ACU boys are talking about going to the European courts to have it overturned. What a load of old crap.
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