FIA Wants BAR Excluded
Discussion
just saw this on autosport:
Formula One's ruling body has asked the Court of Appeal in Paris to throw the BAR team out of this year's Formula One Championship.
The FIA, in their evidence dossier, also recommended a penalty of at least one million Euro.
"The FIA asks the Court to exclude the Lucky Strike BAR Honda team from the 2005 Formula One World Championship and to fine the team at least one million Euros," said the FIA.
The hearing is expected to finish at 2pm local time.
Formula One's ruling body has asked the Court of Appeal in Paris to throw the BAR team out of this year's Formula One Championship.
The FIA, in their evidence dossier, also recommended a penalty of at least one million Euro.
"The FIA asks the Court to exclude the Lucky Strike BAR Honda team from the 2005 Formula One World Championship and to fine the team at least one million Euros," said the FIA.
The hearing is expected to finish at 2pm local time.
the car was about 5kg underweight, they weighed it with the fuel and it was fine, they then drained the car of fuel and it was under weight. the car must meet the weight restrictions regardless of whether there is fuel in the car. i wouldnt be surprised if they kicked them out, they did the same to toyota in rallying years ago
Does that really deserve being kicked out.
Surely - wrapped knuckles, big fine, points taken away, skip a race, and obviously come back within the rules.
Surely, Shirley, all the teams are cheating in one way or another, whether it's small thing or a bigger thing?
Not that I'm saying cheating is OK - but let's keep it in perspective.
Surely - wrapped knuckles, big fine, points taken away, skip a race, and obviously come back within the rules.
Surely, Shirley, all the teams are cheating in one way or another, whether it's small thing or a bigger thing?
Not that I'm saying cheating is OK - but let's keep it in perspective.
I also seem to remember something about needing a minumum of 20 cars on every grid?!
Years ago in rallying, I seem to remember, Toyota actually sought to deceive officials. They had a flap which, when stationary, was closed. When the car was moving it was open and allowed more air in - increasing the bhp of the car (this is all from memory).
With the BAR team seemingly using an underweight car - is this actually cheating, or just a HUGE mistake?! I ask because their cars are always weighed after a race, are they not, and as such a 5kg underweight car would always be certain to show up!?
I'd be very surprised if BAR did actively seek to run an underweight car, as opposed to just buggering up!
edited cos i is fick
>> Edited by tonyhetherington on Wednesday 4th May 12:10
Years ago in rallying, I seem to remember, Toyota actually sought to deceive officials. They had a flap which, when stationary, was closed. When the car was moving it was open and allowed more air in - increasing the bhp of the car (this is all from memory).
With the BAR team seemingly using an underweight car - is this actually cheating, or just a HUGE mistake?! I ask because their cars are always weighed after a race, are they not, and as such a 5kg underweight car would always be certain to show up!?
I'd be very surprised if BAR did actively seek to run an underweight car, as opposed to just buggering up!
edited cos i is fick
>> Edited by tonyhetherington on Wednesday 4th May 12:10
macca8419 said:
the car was about 5kg underweight, they weighed it with the fuel and it was fine, they then drained the car of fuel and it was under weight. the car must meet the weight restrictions regardless of whether there is fuel in the car. i wouldnt be surprised if they kicked them out, they did the same to toyota in rallying years ago
The toyota thing was slightly different though...
The german boys at TTE engineered a very special turbo intake, which looked like it conformed from the outside - but actually let about 50% more air in than the regulations allowed.
It also had a nice little mechanism on the inside, so if you took the intake off to inspect, it had a spring to close it off, so it appeared legal...
Toyota were banned, not because their car was illegal, but because the had manufactured it purposely to be illegal and attempt to trick the inspectors..
Whereas, it seems BAR is more like that 'oops' that Ferrari had with the barge boards, and i dont remember them being banned for a year?
It looks like they may have had a secret fuel tank used as ballast:
www.f1central.net/news/article/1114498773/formula_one/F1gossip/BARs-secret-fuel-tank/view.html
deffo cheating if this is true...
www.f1central.net/news/article/1114498773/formula_one/F1gossip/BARs-secret-fuel-tank/view.html
deffo cheating if this is true...
5kg isn't a lot. Equates to less than 1% of the car weight.
I'm sure the cars lose that much rubber of the tyres during the race these days.
I'm sure it's just an error. Let's face it, if you're going to deliberately make the car under-weight(i.e. cheat!), then why not make it REALLY under-weight?
Though I am bemused by the "extra fuel tank" that we're all hearing about. If it is an extra fuel tank. Who knows, maybe Jenson's incontinent
- "when a man's gotta go, he's gotta go"!
No, I think they'll take the place from JB, a bit of a slap across the wrists, a bit of a fine, and then "See you in Barcelona!".
I'm sure the cars lose that much rubber of the tyres during the race these days.
I'm sure it's just an error. Let's face it, if you're going to deliberately make the car under-weight(i.e. cheat!), then why not make it REALLY under-weight?
Though I am bemused by the "extra fuel tank" that we're all hearing about. If it is an extra fuel tank. Who knows, maybe Jenson's incontinent
- "when a man's gotta go, he's gotta go"! No, I think they'll take the place from JB, a bit of a slap across the wrists, a bit of a fine, and then "See you in Barcelona!".
Just reminds me why F1 is the loads of bollox that it has become.
When they have to gain media coverage through either a: The boss of the championship slagging off his home GP venue as he knows the British tabloids will feed off it and give F1 column inches.
Or b: Try and remove the team of the best British driver on the grid (and also last year the only real threat to Ferrari over the course of a GP weekend) for the rest of a season (which won't happen as an 18 car F1 grid would be a joke, a 20 car grid is bad enough!)
I smell bulshit, anyone else?
When they have to gain media coverage through either a: The boss of the championship slagging off his home GP venue as he knows the British tabloids will feed off it and give F1 column inches.
Or b: Try and remove the team of the best British driver on the grid (and also last year the only real threat to Ferrari over the course of a GP weekend) for the rest of a season (which won't happen as an 18 car F1 grid would be a joke, a 20 car grid is bad enough!)
I smell bulshit, anyone else?
Seems very strange that the FIA would appeal the decision of their own stewards and even more strange that they'd publically say they want to ban a team for a rules infraction that could simply have been a mistake.
I think they've either been tipped off about something that shows BAR have been deliberately cheating or more likely this is some kind of show of strength, given the political wranglings going on in F1 at the moment.
The current Concorde agreement states there must be 20 cars on the grid and that the remaining teams must make up any shortfall in the number of cars. Quite how they decide who will run a 3rd car I'm not sure, it'll give an advantage to the teams that do it but only the biggest teams will be able to afford to. Cynically I'd expect Ferrari to get an extra slot and whichever team is least competitive and can afford it, probably Williams at the moment.
I think they've either been tipped off about something that shows BAR have been deliberately cheating or more likely this is some kind of show of strength, given the political wranglings going on in F1 at the moment.
The current Concorde agreement states there must be 20 cars on the grid and that the remaining teams must make up any shortfall in the number of cars. Quite how they decide who will run a 3rd car I'm not sure, it'll give an advantage to the teams that do it but only the biggest teams will be able to afford to. Cynically I'd expect Ferrari to get an extra slot and whichever team is least competitive and can afford it, probably Williams at the moment.
They kicked Tyrrell out of one year back in the 80's for, allegedly, using some form of coolant system to enhance the fuel mix during a race.
Something like that anyway.
I can't see the point in running fuel as weight ballast unless you plan to use it at some point. The only beneoft of a fluid ballast is that you can potentially relocate it within the car for more consistent balance on a fluctuating fuel load. I can;t ssee that running an average of a couple of kilo's lighter for a few laps in the middle of a race will make a serious difference. If so one should only employ midget drivers.
Oh well, I guess we find out soon.
Wonder if Jenson has a get out clause in his contract? Maybe take over from Webber?
Something like that anyway.
I can't see the point in running fuel as weight ballast unless you plan to use it at some point. The only beneoft of a fluid ballast is that you can potentially relocate it within the car for more consistent balance on a fluctuating fuel load. I can;t ssee that running an average of a couple of kilo's lighter for a few laps in the middle of a race will make a serious difference. If so one should only employ midget drivers.
Oh well, I guess we find out soon.
Wonder if Jenson has a get out clause in his contract? Maybe take over from Webber?
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