Rockingham to close
Discussion
chunder27 said:
Good luck trying to get 5000 people to a clubby anywhere.
Jesus, that would never happen if you charged less than a tenner, had Thundersalooons, Historic f1 and 10 other series.
Get real for Gods sake
It happens regularly - HSCC Croft and Oulton Park may call themselves Nostalgia Festival and Gold Cup but both meetings are just part of the regular fare the club produces. Singe venue stage rallies at Croft at Christmas sees the pace packed out , Time Attack sees hordes of der kidz innit . And so on . Jesus, that would never happen if you charged less than a tenner, had Thundersalooons, Historic f1 and 10 other series.
Get real for Gods sake
People aren't stupid - only an anorak like me will pop in to a thin gridded fare of MX5s and a VW Fun Cup yawnfest (for watchers ) but put something decent on , don't have a timetable with 90 minute lunch breaks, keep folk entertained and they will come all right . See also Santa Pod - huge amount of support
Like most complex issues , a simple binary yes/no doesn't work. Yes , overall ,club level motorsport gets smaller , and in some cases, tiny audiences , far smaller than yesteryear . That is the overall trend , but with Sunday shopping, big tellies and the interweb that is hardly surprising .
But the right package, the right place and the right management (the sort of customer care the punter gets at MSV but not at some other venues ) gets people there and enjoying themselves . But crap food , awful parking, bored commentary teams and obsessive security staff (Croft until recently) put Joe Soap off .
But the right package, the right place and the right management (the sort of customer care the punter gets at MSV but not at some other venues ) gets people there and enjoying themselves . But crap food , awful parking, bored commentary teams and obsessive security staff (Croft until recently) put Joe Soap off .
Awareness is one of the big issues.
In the 70s and 80s, Grandstand and World of Sport would regularly show any number and types of races from around the UK - Formula Ford, Formula First (remember them), Saloons. There was also that series that had F1 and Pro Drivers competing across different formulae - made entirely for TV. So even casual viewers would be aware that there is more to motorsport than F1 and thus more inclined to go and see what's what.
You also had far more mainstream press coverage. It was either the Daily Express or Evening Standard that used to sponsor a meet at Brands that was free to punters - they just had to buy the paper. The meets were basic clubbies yet hugely popular - easily 20,000 people OK it was free to get in but of these, I'd wager a fair few would have come back as a paying punter.
Exposure is far more limited these days. To give you one stark example....
Until about 10 years ago, I used to do a lot of arrive and drive karting - places like Thurrock and Buckmore. Nothing serious but a bit more than 'casual'. We got to know a group of lads who took their karting seriously - had all their own gear and the like. Always turned up in nice cars and carried themselves as any 'car-blokes' might and given their commitment to karting, I assumed they had an interest in Motor Sport.
Chatting to them though, it appeared they hadn't a clue. Didn't even know where Brands Hatch was and assumed motor racing was F1, LeMans and Indy. Upon my suggestion, they all went to Brands, ending up at a 750MC meet. When I next saw them it was like they'd just come back from Abu Dhabi or Monaco GPs!!
In the 70s and 80s, Grandstand and World of Sport would regularly show any number and types of races from around the UK - Formula Ford, Formula First (remember them), Saloons. There was also that series that had F1 and Pro Drivers competing across different formulae - made entirely for TV. So even casual viewers would be aware that there is more to motorsport than F1 and thus more inclined to go and see what's what.
You also had far more mainstream press coverage. It was either the Daily Express or Evening Standard that used to sponsor a meet at Brands that was free to punters - they just had to buy the paper. The meets were basic clubbies yet hugely popular - easily 20,000 people OK it was free to get in but of these, I'd wager a fair few would have come back as a paying punter.
Exposure is far more limited these days. To give you one stark example....
Until about 10 years ago, I used to do a lot of arrive and drive karting - places like Thurrock and Buckmore. Nothing serious but a bit more than 'casual'. We got to know a group of lads who took their karting seriously - had all their own gear and the like. Always turned up in nice cars and carried themselves as any 'car-blokes' might and given their commitment to karting, I assumed they had an interest in Motor Sport.
Chatting to them though, it appeared they hadn't a clue. Didn't even know where Brands Hatch was and assumed motor racing was F1, LeMans and Indy. Upon my suggestion, they all went to Brands, ending up at a 750MC meet. When I next saw them it was like they'd just come back from Abu Dhabi or Monaco GPs!!
StevieBee said:
Awareness is one of the big issues.
In the 70s and 80s, Grandstand and World of Sport would regularly show any number and types of races from around the UK - Formula Ford, Formula First (remember them), Saloons. There was also that series that had F1 and Pro Drivers competing across different formulae - made entirely for TV. So even casual viewers would be aware that there is more to motorsport than F1 and thus more inclined to go and see what's what.
You also had far more mainstream press coverage. It was either the Daily Express or Evening Standard that used to sponsor a meet at Brands that was free to punters - they just had to buy the paper. The meets were basic clubbies yet hugely popular - easily 20,000 people OK it was free to get in but of these, I'd wager a fair few would have come back as a paying spectators.
Things were a lot simpler then and there wasn’t the competition for the ‘leisure time’ that there is now. Gawd in those days we didn’t even have Sunday shopping!In the 70s and 80s, Grandstand and World of Sport would regularly show any number and types of races from around the UK - Formula Ford, Formula First (remember them), Saloons. There was also that series that had F1 and Pro Drivers competing across different formulae - made entirely for TV. So even casual viewers would be aware that there is more to motorsport than F1 and thus more inclined to go and see what's what.
You also had far more mainstream press coverage. It was either the Daily Express or Evening Standard that used to sponsor a meet at Brands that was free to punters - they just had to buy the paper. The meets were basic clubbies yet hugely popular - easily 20,000 people OK it was free to get in but of these, I'd wager a fair few would have come back as a paying spectators.
Interesting thread and something i've discussed with various folk from a broad range in the sport. The general concensus is that times have changes basically; most shops have now been open on sundays for years more people working that day etc. The most worrying thing I think is the lack of interest from the generations under 30 which will knock on with an ever decreasing pool of competitors.
The circuits don't always help themselves as someone mentioned the commentators often sound bored (I really miss Brian Jones) no "scoreboiard" and not good value for money club meetings. Club meetings should be a fiver to get people through the gate which will increase revenue inside the circuit and who know you may even get a new participant!
The Sun and Evening Standard were hughly popular and Webby would always put on something extra; parachute display team, Lotus F1 demo etc. I really don't know why this kind of meeting isn't run now?
On the subject of F1 demos I see Brands really push them hard when advertising the meetings they are running in. What makes my piss boil is that 10 years ago there was a Euroboss race with 16 cars in it of a much higher calibre than the recent demos. They ran on a MG car club meeting had a race sat and sun there was zero promotion. There was then a massive hoo-har about the noise and the circuit wanted the races cancelled they ended up shortened.
The circuits don't always help themselves as someone mentioned the commentators often sound bored (I really miss Brian Jones) no "scoreboiard" and not good value for money club meetings. Club meetings should be a fiver to get people through the gate which will increase revenue inside the circuit and who know you may even get a new participant!
The Sun and Evening Standard were hughly popular and Webby would always put on something extra; parachute display team, Lotus F1 demo etc. I really don't know why this kind of meeting isn't run now?
On the subject of F1 demos I see Brands really push them hard when advertising the meetings they are running in. What makes my piss boil is that 10 years ago there was a Euroboss race with 16 cars in it of a much higher calibre than the recent demos. They ran on a MG car club meeting had a race sat and sun there was zero promotion. There was then a massive hoo-har about the noise and the circuit wanted the races cancelled they ended up shortened.
Santa Pod is different
it runs events that appeal to mass markets and has no competion.
They invested heavily in facilities a few years agoa nd are reaping the rewards, they embrace youth, drift culture etc and have events for all types of vehicles.
Their big events are very expensive however. And drag racing in the UK is pretty crap usually due to the weather, but the pod is a fabulous strip.
it runs events that appeal to mass markets and has no competion.
They invested heavily in facilities a few years agoa nd are reaping the rewards, they embrace youth, drift culture etc and have events for all types of vehicles.
Their big events are very expensive however. And drag racing in the UK is pretty crap usually due to the weather, but the pod is a fabulous strip.
knowitall said:
StevieBee said:
Awareness is one of the big issues.
In the 70s and 80s, Grandstand and World of Sport would regularly show any number and types of races from around the UK - Formula Ford, Formula First (remember them), Saloons. There was also that series that had F1 and Pro Drivers competing across different formulae - made entirely for TV. So even casual viewers would be aware that there is more to motorsport than F1 and thus more inclined to go and see what's what.
You also had far more mainstream press coverage. It was either the Daily Express or Evening Standard that used to sponsor a meet at Brands that was free to punters - they just had to buy the paper. The meets were basic clubbies yet hugely popular - easily 20,000 people OK it was free to get in but of these, I'd wager a fair few would have come back as a paying spectators.
Things were a lot simpler then and there wasn’t the competition for the ‘leisure time’ that there is now. Gawd in those days we didn’t even have Sunday shopping!In the 70s and 80s, Grandstand and World of Sport would regularly show any number and types of races from around the UK - Formula Ford, Formula First (remember them), Saloons. There was also that series that had F1 and Pro Drivers competing across different formulae - made entirely for TV. So even casual viewers would be aware that there is more to motorsport than F1 and thus more inclined to go and see what's what.
You also had far more mainstream press coverage. It was either the Daily Express or Evening Standard that used to sponsor a meet at Brands that was free to punters - they just had to buy the paper. The meets were basic clubbies yet hugely popular - easily 20,000 people OK it was free to get in but of these, I'd wager a fair few would have come back as a paying spectators.
ArnageWRC said:
Some excellent points made. As already said, it's a competitive area, and sadly, a lot of motorsports haven't moved with the times, and seem stuck in a time warp - and wonder why it's all gone wrong (yes, British rallying, in particular, I'm looking at you).
Is it a time warp? Or just an evolution of tastes?In the late 80s I would have gone to a forest stage and stood in the cold. Regardless of how they update the "show" there is no way I'd go now.
I will go to F1 (alone)
I might go to Indycar if I'm in the US (alone)
I will go to a local hillclimb with family (£10 on the gate, get to talk to the drivers, mix in the paddock, noise levels suitable for small kids).
Maybe it's because there are no tracks near to me.
Some tracks do put on a good show castle combe my nearest track is packed all year round with 4 own run championship with big grids. They also attract healthy sized guest championships at each rd. On top of that several action days which are extremely popular and draw huge crowds.
The barc often seems too be the organiser with the smallest grid sizes apart from toca package which doesn't help things. Pembrey is a classic case in point the truck meeting tend to draw the crowds with the bankings usually full with cars but the support grids are usually below 15 cars with some below 10. 750mc also has that issue in some of its series with low entry numbers .
Overall I think there are just too many championships out there and with new ones being created like the new focus cup being the latest in one make grids that nobody asked for or the junior clio series with 8 cars at best there needs too be a serious shake up in how things are run. before non Msa run events start too become even more popular.
The barc often seems too be the organiser with the smallest grid sizes apart from toca package which doesn't help things. Pembrey is a classic case in point the truck meeting tend to draw the crowds with the bankings usually full with cars but the support grids are usually below 15 cars with some below 10. 750mc also has that issue in some of its series with low entry numbers .
Overall I think there are just too many championships out there and with new ones being created like the new focus cup being the latest in one make grids that nobody asked for or the junior clio series with 8 cars at best there needs too be a serious shake up in how things are run. before non Msa run events start too become even more popular.
MG CHRIS said:
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Overall I think there are just too many championships out there and with new ones being created like the new focus cup being the latest in one make grids that nobody asked for or the junior clio series with 8 cars at best there needs too be a serious shake up in how things are run. before non Msa run events start too become even more popular.
People have been saying this for over 30 years.Overall I think there are just too many championships out there and with new ones being created like the new focus cup being the latest in one make grids that nobody asked for or the junior clio series with 8 cars at best there needs too be a serious shake up in how things are run. before non Msa run events start too become even more popular.
Something else my OH reminded me of was that a few years ago, a lot of the circuits reduced the age at which an adult ticket had to be purchased from 16 to 12. As a family of four, we'd often go to a race - BTCC, club meet, etc. But when they reduced the age for adult tickets, a family day out at, say BTCC suddenly became expensive with tickets, food, beer, etc seeing off £150. My wife and daughter enjoyed going but were not bothered if they didn't so stopped coming with my lad and me.
Its a common theme among a lot of these silly people.
12 is not an adult is it?
It happens in short oval racing a lot too, something I follow closely, certain venues and promoters ahve a differing view on what is a kid and what isnt, and therefore a lot of people are maybe less able to follow a series all around.
Just dumb if you ask me
12 is not an adult is it?
It happens in short oval racing a lot too, something I follow closely, certain venues and promoters ahve a differing view on what is a kid and what isnt, and therefore a lot of people are maybe less able to follow a series all around.
Just dumb if you ask me
chunder27 said:
Its a common theme among a lot of these silly people.
12 is not an adult is it?
It happens in short oval racing a lot too, something I follow closely, certain venues and promoters ahve a differing view on what is a kid and what isnt, and therefore a lot of people are maybe less able to follow a series all around.
Just dumb if you ask me
Maybe the logic is "Old enough to race, old enough to pay" 12 is not an adult is it?
It happens in short oval racing a lot too, something I follow closely, certain venues and promoters ahve a differing view on what is a kid and what isnt, and therefore a lot of people are maybe less able to follow a series all around.
Just dumb if you ask me
chunder27 said:
And what is wrong with non MSA events becoming too popular?
That might shake the lazy sods up a bit and make them realise they need to do something for a change.
Nothing at all run in a non Msa sprint series and enjoyed it and meet some great people it has also made me do the jump to get a race license and will be running next year with the 750mc. But the Msa has done a great deal of harm by keeping on allowing new series to run with pitefully grid sizes when there is clearly no real push for it. That might shake the lazy sods up a bit and make them realise they need to do something for a change.
chunder27 said:
Its a common theme among a lot of these silly people.
12 is not an adult is it?
It happens in short oval racing a lot too, something I follow closely, certain venues and promoters ahve a differing view on what is a kid and what isnt, and therefore a lot of people are maybe less able to follow a series all around.
Just dumb if you ask me
And that’s where other events should follow Goodwood. 12 is not an adult is it?
It happens in short oval racing a lot too, something I follow closely, certain venues and promoters ahve a differing view on what is a kid and what isnt, and therefore a lot of people are maybe less able to follow a series all around.
Just dumb if you ask me
Children 12 and under are free, 13 - 21 year olds get a young persons ticket which is half the price of a standard ticket.
Goodwood is sui generis and I don't think offers many pricing lessons for elsewhere- although its exemplary customer care deserves wider currency . Kids may be free but at MM I nearly passed out when asked for 18 quid for the programme ...
But , it being Goodwood, it was the best designed , best written programme in the 20 plus events I had been to in the previous 12 months . And there was a free radio too...
But , it being Goodwood, it was the best designed , best written programme in the 20 plus events I had been to in the previous 12 months . And there was a free radio too...
chunder27 said:
Good luck trying to get 5000 people to a clubby anywhere.
Jesus, that would never happen if you charged less than a tenner, had Thundersalooons, Historic f1 and 10 other series.
Get real for Gods sake
What bJesus, that would never happen if you charged less than a tenner, had Thundersalooons, Historic f1 and 10 other series.
Get real for Gods sake
ks, Combe easily get over 5,000 spectators, £15 to get in, up to 9 hours of track activity, good selection of races, great views all the way round the track. Combe did it right, stuck two fingers up to the BRSCC SW and went it alone. They were getting screwed by rubbish championships and no investment. I’m so glad they took the risk and will continue to support them. I’d guess at least 10,000 will be at the autumn classsic.... Come and have a look.pablo said:
What bks, Combe easily get over 5,000 spectators, £15 to get in, up to 9 hours of track activity, good selection of races, great views all the way round the track. Combe did it right, stuck two fingers up to the BRSCC SW and went it alone. They were getting screwed by rubbish championships and no investment. I’m so glad they took the risk and will continue to support them. I’d guess at least 10,000 will be at the autumn classsic.... Come and have a look.
Castle Combe is a good example of how you can get it right which was started through energy/enthusiasm of Rodney Gooch. Moving anything to do with the BRSCC away is a good thing although the main culprit stepped down as chairman recently I read.ks, Combe easily get over 5,000 spectators, £15 to get in, up to 9 hours of track activity, good selection of races, great views all the way round the track. Combe did it right, stuck two fingers up to the BRSCC SW and went it alone. They were getting screwed by rubbish championships and no investment. I’m so glad they took the risk and will continue to support them. I’d guess at least 10,000 will be at the autumn classsic.... Come and have a look.I visited the circuit 3-4 years ago and found the staff/facilities to be very good. It reminded me of Mallory when the Overands had it.
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