Discussion
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/motorsport/45802348
So, to help women compete and get into F1 they have created a Formula just for women. WTF?
It just defies logic. There simply aren't many women interested in motor racing so there are fewer women racing. Only a tiny percentage of drivers make it to F1 and so the chances of a woman making it that far (and they have got as far as test driver/third driver) is similarly small. Treating them like they are under privileged or something is ridiculous. Compete with everyone else or go and try something else.
I assume that in this age of equal opportunities there will be a men only race series too? No?
So, to help women compete and get into F1 they have created a Formula just for women. WTF?
It just defies logic. There simply aren't many women interested in motor racing so there are fewer women racing. Only a tiny percentage of drivers make it to F1 and so the chances of a woman making it that far (and they have got as far as test driver/third driver) is similarly small. Treating them like they are under privileged or something is ridiculous. Compete with everyone else or go and try something else.
I assume that in this age of equal opportunities there will be a men only race series too? No?
It's been done before with Formula Woman and the RX8s.
Those woman serious about racing probably want to beat the boys and enjoy an even playing field. I'm guessing it adds an extra edge when you can burst a few ego bubbles because you happen to have tits as well. They probably don't want to get involved in another of life's b
h fests full of "entitled" woman.
Those woman serious about racing probably want to beat the boys and enjoy an even playing field. I'm guessing it adds an extra edge when you can burst a few ego bubbles because you happen to have tits as well. They probably don't want to get involved in another of life's b
h fests full of "entitled" woman.I don't pretend to know much about F1 or motorsport in general, but didn't most (if not all) or the F1 grid start off karting, and then get spotted and sponsored/mentored by the big teams from then on?
I realise karting isn't the most *inclusive*, but I thought that was down to the money involved to compete successfully, not any issues around gender? Surely a rich girl has as much chance as a rich boy to have a go at karting?
Sounds like the teams just need to spot the girls karting (and winning), and give them the same opportunities as they would the boys winning the karting races - rather than introduce another series for (adult) women?
I realise karting isn't the most *inclusive*, but I thought that was down to the money involved to compete successfully, not any issues around gender? Surely a rich girl has as much chance as a rich boy to have a go at karting?
Sounds like the teams just need to spot the girls karting (and winning), and give them the same opportunities as they would the boys winning the karting races - rather than introduce another series for (adult) women?
Totally undermines everything women race drivers have been saying - that they want to compete with men on an equal basis.
So any woman that chooses to race in a woman-only race series is basically admitting that they are not good enough to race against men on an equal basis!
So any woman that chooses to race in a woman-only race series is basically admitting that they are not good enough to race against men on an equal basis!
Edited by knowitall on Wednesday 10th October 09:58
It's a tricky one. In my experience motorsport paddocks are very chauvinistic. In the ideal world women would come up and get noticed the same way that the men do but they aren't and seeing how few of them there are that should point to something being out of kilter somewhere along the line. They should be getting far more attention than their male counterparts.
To say that there are fewer women at the sharp end because there are fewer women in motosport in general is only valid if everything else is equal. Take a boy and a girl of the same age to the average motor racing meeting and the boy will think he can do anything whereas the girl will think most of the jobs involve wearing skimpy clothes or making food.
To say that there are fewer women at the sharp end because there are fewer women in motosport in general is only valid if everything else is equal. Take a boy and a girl of the same age to the average motor racing meeting and the boy will think he can do anything whereas the girl will think most of the jobs involve wearing skimpy clothes or making food.
Reminds me of the "Formula Woman" series from a few years ago (2004?) with women racing Mazda RX-8's and a reality show type selection format.
It disappeared after 1 year.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_Woman
It disappeared after 1 year.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_Woman
Its so hard isnt it.
On one you want to make existing sports inclusive, so that women do come in and take part and compete side by side with men.
However on the other side, and equally valid, if you have got an existing system which has not yet changed and as such inherently targets men, you have to some fairly major things to really target women to get the field back to being level.
I’ll tell you why there are not woman in F1. Its because all the drivers are men, and all the bosses are men, and huge swathes of the spectators are men. If the people setting the rules are men the rules will favour men. If little jonny gets taken to watch motorsport by his dad and asked if he wants to have a go kart party for his birthday, he is more likely to take it up later in life than little Joanna who gets taken to the hair salon and told she wants a barbie party for the birthday.
Same with downhill mountain biking. Which is why Rachel Atherton does all her ‘fox run’ events and the like. Co-incidentally while most of the women are slower than the men, Rachel is a quick, she grew up with brothers who where also doing it, and one presumes parents who didn’t harp about the woes of breaking a nail like half of the parents I see. Its also a numbers game, there are 100's of men and only a few women, so statically your going to miss a lot of the people that could be good.
Daniel
On one you want to make existing sports inclusive, so that women do come in and take part and compete side by side with men.
However on the other side, and equally valid, if you have got an existing system which has not yet changed and as such inherently targets men, you have to some fairly major things to really target women to get the field back to being level.
I’ll tell you why there are not woman in F1. Its because all the drivers are men, and all the bosses are men, and huge swathes of the spectators are men. If the people setting the rules are men the rules will favour men. If little jonny gets taken to watch motorsport by his dad and asked if he wants to have a go kart party for his birthday, he is more likely to take it up later in life than little Joanna who gets taken to the hair salon and told she wants a barbie party for the birthday.
Same with downhill mountain biking. Which is why Rachel Atherton does all her ‘fox run’ events and the like. Co-incidentally while most of the women are slower than the men, Rachel is a quick, she grew up with brothers who where also doing it, and one presumes parents who didn’t harp about the woes of breaking a nail like half of the parents I see. Its also a numbers game, there are 100's of men and only a few women, so statically your going to miss a lot of the people that could be good.
Daniel
there are a number of very good women racing drivers mixing it with the men.
I've raced a few myself, and spectated on others.
I'm not a woman so it's hard to comment, but I think if you're fast, and have the money then you're getting as far as you your talent will let you go - the same as the guys.
As someone else said, a big problem is that there are just very few women interested in comparison to men.
When I see the amount of amazingly talented and successful male racing drivers not getting a chance due to a lack of money, it's hardly surprising when there are only 20 seats at the top level that we haven't managed to get a woman into F1.
I also think that being a woman should have some massive commercial and sponsorship opportunities over the massive amount of men chasing the same sponsorship.
All that being said, when you have legends of the sport like Coulthard and Newey saying it's needed, then to be fair, it's probably needed. They know more than we ever will about it.
What's the worst that happens - it's almost like a scholarship, the 'leading lady' then gets noticed (well they all do) and goes up against the men next year.
If she keeps winning and has the money she will get to the top.
simples.
I've raced a few myself, and spectated on others.
I'm not a woman so it's hard to comment, but I think if you're fast, and have the money then you're getting as far as you your talent will let you go - the same as the guys.
As someone else said, a big problem is that there are just very few women interested in comparison to men.
When I see the amount of amazingly talented and successful male racing drivers not getting a chance due to a lack of money, it's hardly surprising when there are only 20 seats at the top level that we haven't managed to get a woman into F1.
I also think that being a woman should have some massive commercial and sponsorship opportunities over the massive amount of men chasing the same sponsorship.
All that being said, when you have legends of the sport like Coulthard and Newey saying it's needed, then to be fair, it's probably needed. They know more than we ever will about it.
What's the worst that happens - it's almost like a scholarship, the 'leading lady' then gets noticed (well they all do) and goes up against the men next year.
If she keeps winning and has the money she will get to the top.
simples.
If a female driver is fast enough and good enough they will progress probably quicker than a male driver - A credible female F1 driver would be a media and sponsor's dream - Look at IndyCar. As others have said, just not enough are rising to that level. I doubt a single sex series is the answer.
They are saying - Women in motorsport hit a glass ceiling at GP3 and don't progress due to lack of funding, therefore we are going to create a new series just for women.
So...why don't they set up a proper financial sponsorship project to enable those who have proven quick enough to move up the ladder, instead of providing another dead end from which they can't move on. Winning an all women series is not really a very good measure of overall competitiveness.
So...why don't they set up a proper financial sponsorship project to enable those who have proven quick enough to move up the ladder, instead of providing another dead end from which they can't move on. Winning an all women series is not really a very good measure of overall competitiveness.
Its a load of overempowering tripe let's face it.
there are categories where women compete and win, even dominate, but you would not have heard of them.
I think this is such the wrong timing, there are several women in junior racing right now who are doing well. And some established ones too.
I think the swell is coming, but ti isnt help by poeple like Susie Wolff, Danica, or worse, Jorda doing what they did.
The sad thing about Jorda is, that decision was clearly made high up at Renault back then, WTF were they thinking? Besides the obvious
there are categories where women compete and win, even dominate, but you would not have heard of them.
I think this is such the wrong timing, there are several women in junior racing right now who are doing well. And some established ones too.
I think the swell is coming, but ti isnt help by poeple like Susie Wolff, Danica, or worse, Jorda doing what they did.
The sad thing about Jorda is, that decision was clearly made high up at Renault back then, WTF were they thinking? Besides the obvious
Three-day equestrian eventing, to me, has a lot of structural comparisons to motorsport. Namely, the sheer about of cash it takes to progress...
Men and women successfully compete alongside each other in this sport, so perhaps we should look to the structural issues that allow that to happen to see what we can learn for motorsport. The need for cash seems to be common, so is it something different about the progression pathways?
Men and women successfully compete alongside each other in this sport, so perhaps we should look to the structural issues that allow that to happen to see what we can learn for motorsport. The need for cash seems to be common, so is it something different about the progression pathways?
it's a numbers game though isn't it.
So many amazingly talented men can't make it for several reasons.
it's no different to amazingly talented women that can't make if for several reasons.
The difference is there are far fewer women trying.
As others have said - the minute a woman has what it takes at the top level, she will be a sponsors dream and she will be straight there.
I'm surprised someone with rich parents haven't just put them in the car..........I mean, you can buy a drive with the right amount of money. Why hasn't that happened? (it's happened with men)
So many amazingly talented men can't make it for several reasons.
it's no different to amazingly talented women that can't make if for several reasons.
The difference is there are far fewer women trying.
As others have said - the minute a woman has what it takes at the top level, she will be a sponsors dream and she will be straight there.
I'm surprised someone with rich parents haven't just put them in the car..........I mean, you can buy a drive with the right amount of money. Why hasn't that happened? (it's happened with men)
The Selfish Gene said:
I'm surprised someone with rich parents haven't just put them in the car..........I mean, you can buy a drive with the right amount of money. Why hasn't that happened? (it's happened with men)
I suspect it's a numbers game within a numbers game.Of all the rich little girls in the world. How many are conditioned by their parents/society to be interested in competing with boys in karts? How many of those actually have the ability, and the friendship group supporting them in the sport?
I'd suggest it's far more likely those girls are pushed into being interested in horses by their parents/environment/friends than into motorsport. Even more would be interested in fashion/Instagram fame/being the "perfect bride" etc than either.
I think it begs another question. Why is it important for girls to be interested in being a racing driver and making it to the top? If they, as a wide group, are just not interested, despite the door being just as open or them as boys, what's the issue? Can we not just let people do what they actually want to do (within the bounds of the law)?
dhutch said:
Its so hard isnt it.
On one you want to make existing sports inclusive, so that women do come in and take part and compete side by side with men.
However on the other side, and equally valid, if you have got an existing system which has not yet changed and as such inherently targets men, you have to some fairly major things to really target women to get the field back to being level.
I’ll tell you why there are not woman in F1. Its because all the drivers are men, and all the bosses are men, and huge swathes of the spectators are men. If the people setting the rules are men the rules will favour men. If little jonny gets taken to watch motorsport by his dad and asked if he wants to have a go kart party for his birthday, he is more likely to take it up later in life than little Joanna who gets taken to the hair salon and told she wants a barbie party for the birthday.
Same with downhill mountain biking. Which is why Rachel Atherton does all her ‘fox run’ events and the like. Co-incidentally while most of the women are slower than the men, Rachel is a quick, she grew up with brothers who where also doing it, and one presumes parents who didn’t harp about the woes of breaking a nail like half of the parents I see. Its also a numbers game, there are 100's of men and only a few women, so statically your going to miss a lot of the people that could be good.
Daniel
how on earth do the rules favour men over women?On one you want to make existing sports inclusive, so that women do come in and take part and compete side by side with men.
However on the other side, and equally valid, if you have got an existing system which has not yet changed and as such inherently targets men, you have to some fairly major things to really target women to get the field back to being level.
I’ll tell you why there are not woman in F1. Its because all the drivers are men, and all the bosses are men, and huge swathes of the spectators are men. If the people setting the rules are men the rules will favour men. If little jonny gets taken to watch motorsport by his dad and asked if he wants to have a go kart party for his birthday, he is more likely to take it up later in life than little Joanna who gets taken to the hair salon and told she wants a barbie party for the birthday.
Same with downhill mountain biking. Which is why Rachel Atherton does all her ‘fox run’ events and the like. Co-incidentally while most of the women are slower than the men, Rachel is a quick, she grew up with brothers who where also doing it, and one presumes parents who didn’t harp about the woes of breaking a nail like half of the parents I see. Its also a numbers game, there are 100's of men and only a few women, so statically your going to miss a lot of the people that could be good.
Daniel
Munter said:
I think it begs another question. Why is it important for girls to be interested in being a racing driver and making it to the top? If they, as a wide group, are just not interested, despite the door being just as open or them as boys, what's the issue? Can we not just let people do what they actually want to do (within the bounds of the law)?
100% agree with this. I mean, we can't force a demographic to want to be involved in something.Of course there are some women that want to , and can't be. Plenty of guys have the same problem.
It's a problem that doesn't really need solving.
Flick Haigh is British GT Champion and Ana Carasco just became world champion on bikes (super sport or super stock, not too sure) but either way it proves that women are winning on an equal footing to men without needing any gimmicks or a separate championship.
Budget is key. Always has been and always will be irrespective of gender.
Ironically I imagine this new series will actually be very helpful to top racing teams because they will be able to see which women are serious about racing at the top level and who is not.
Any female racer who wants to get to the top will be smart enough to avoid this series like the plague as I am certain it will just lead to you being regarded as wanting an easier ride to the top by competing with a very small and unproven group of fellow drivers rather than ALL of your peers on a level playing field.
Motorsport is one of the most gender equal sports in the world and I have raced with and been beaten by women on many occasions over the years and there is some serious talent out there,
However it is logical that if only a very small percentage of those racing globally are women then the chance of a lady making it to F1 is very very slim when you compare it to men who make up the vast majority. There are only 20 seats after all.
Anyone know how many MSA race license holders in the UK are women as a percentage? I would imagine it is very small and clearly explains why so few ever make it toward the top of the sport when you think of the pyramid type structure involved in climbing up the ranks.
The opportunity to go racing is exactly the same for men and women, it purely comes down to the fact that more men choose to do it or are introduced to it.
To me this is more down to traditional gender roles in society rather than the wrong approach being taken by the FIA, MSA etc. My sister was given tap dancing shoes and i was given a pedal go kart as kids.... i am sure you can work out who went racing and who didn't years later.
Budget is key. Always has been and always will be irrespective of gender.
Ironically I imagine this new series will actually be very helpful to top racing teams because they will be able to see which women are serious about racing at the top level and who is not.
Any female racer who wants to get to the top will be smart enough to avoid this series like the plague as I am certain it will just lead to you being regarded as wanting an easier ride to the top by competing with a very small and unproven group of fellow drivers rather than ALL of your peers on a level playing field.
Motorsport is one of the most gender equal sports in the world and I have raced with and been beaten by women on many occasions over the years and there is some serious talent out there,
However it is logical that if only a very small percentage of those racing globally are women then the chance of a lady making it to F1 is very very slim when you compare it to men who make up the vast majority. There are only 20 seats after all.
Anyone know how many MSA race license holders in the UK are women as a percentage? I would imagine it is very small and clearly explains why so few ever make it toward the top of the sport when you think of the pyramid type structure involved in climbing up the ranks.
The opportunity to go racing is exactly the same for men and women, it purely comes down to the fact that more men choose to do it or are introduced to it.
To me this is more down to traditional gender roles in society rather than the wrong approach being taken by the FIA, MSA etc. My sister was given tap dancing shoes and i was given a pedal go kart as kids.... i am sure you can work out who went racing and who didn't years later.
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