Discussion
Carasco is a very experience rider, rode 2 years in MOto3 and for many years in the feeder series, won 2 races and never podiumed again, her rival was injured for a bit.
She still won, fair do's. But did nothing in Moto3 as didn't Maria Herrera.
The last female bike racer to do go was a Finnish girl named Taru Rinne, she was a points scorer in the 80's. People will say Katka Poensgen, fair enough, she did nothing in GP racing, but won a bit in lesser formulae.
it's not easy let's be honest.
And talk about things like motocross, it just never happens, despite countless lasses getting into it at an early age.
She still won, fair do's. But did nothing in Moto3 as didn't Maria Herrera.
The last female bike racer to do go was a Finnish girl named Taru Rinne, she was a points scorer in the 80's. People will say Katka Poensgen, fair enough, she did nothing in GP racing, but won a bit in lesser formulae.
it's not easy let's be honest.
And talk about things like motocross, it just never happens, despite countless lasses getting into it at an early age.
all joking aside - it can't do any harm really. I mean, short of maybe conning some nice young women out of a seasons budget with no real chance of moving forward.
Unless of course it's fully funded - then f
k it , why not have a go.
If you shine, it's a string to the CV bow.
Obviously if the ladies are paying for it, then it must have real benefit to it. Especially if it's comparable to a proper single series in budget.
Unless of course it's fully funded - then f
k it , why not have a go.If you shine, it's a string to the CV bow.
Obviously if the ladies are paying for it, then it must have real benefit to it. Especially if it's comparable to a proper single series in budget.
Formula Woman was a crap idea that turned into a circus of a television show because they realised that a show of determined dedicated women competing wasnt very interesting.
Pippa Mann had some points to make last year.
http://www.pippamann.com/2017/06/19/the-handmaids-...
Pippa Mann had some points to make last year.
http://www.pippamann.com/2017/06/19/the-handmaids-...
I don't get it... its to help women get into F1?
If they can't beat the men in the current route to F1 now, then why will having a women-only series help? They will not have the harder competition that they get from racing men, so will never really push themselves as much in their own series and I very much doubt they will ever get to the level that they need to get to, to actually make it in F1.
So the women-only series is more of a backwards step than a forwards lets get more females racing as they will never leave this series.
If they can't beat the men in the current route to F1 now, then why will having a women-only series help? They will not have the harder competition that they get from racing men, so will never really push themselves as much in their own series and I very much doubt they will ever get to the level that they need to get to, to actually make it in F1.
So the women-only series is more of a backwards step than a forwards lets get more females racing as they will never leave this series.
maybe this thread is looking at it wrongly.
Maybe the women that will be in this series would never, normally have the opportunity?
so it isn't for the Pippa's of this world - how have competed at that level on equal footing.
Maybe the idea is that the ladies in this, have no other option. It gives them experience in proper single seaters that they otherwise wouldn't get, and the focus and attention.
Then they can go into F3 or whatever?
Maybe the women that will be in this series would never, normally have the opportunity?
so it isn't for the Pippa's of this world - how have competed at that level on equal footing.
Maybe the idea is that the ladies in this, have no other option. It gives them experience in proper single seaters that they otherwise wouldn't get, and the focus and attention.
Then they can go into F3 or whatever?
The Selfish Gene said:
maybe this thread is looking at it wrongly.
Maybe the women that will be in this series would never, normally have the opportunity?
so it isn't for the Pippa's of this world - how have competed at that level on equal footing.
Maybe the idea is that the ladies in this, have no other option. It gives them experience in proper single seaters that they otherwise wouldn't get, and the focus and attention.
Then they can go into F3 or whatever?
Still the same situation, until they are in F3, they wont be pushed as hard as the men doing it and when they get into F3 they wont be able to complete, except for maybe on the rare occasion they are the female version of Senna, etc.Maybe the women that will be in this series would never, normally have the opportunity?
so it isn't for the Pippa's of this world - how have competed at that level on equal footing.
Maybe the idea is that the ladies in this, have no other option. It gives them experience in proper single seaters that they otherwise wouldn't get, and the focus and attention.
Then they can go into F3 or whatever?
well yeah - totally agree. Just thinking I'd quite like a chance at a funded single seater drive with my experience I think it would have helped me very much (When I was younger)
It's nothing to do with the man/woman thing.
Seat time is all - and if this gives a load of women seat time, it has to help them if they are any good.
I totally agree when they land in the mixed grid...........that's when they'll start being pushed properly, but having a proper year before hand can only help?
It's nothing to do with the man/woman thing.
Seat time is all - and if this gives a load of women seat time, it has to help them if they are any good.
I totally agree when they land in the mixed grid...........that's when they'll start being pushed properly, but having a proper year before hand can only help?
TwentyFive said:
Flick Haigh is British GT Champion and Ana Carasco just became world champion on bikes (super sport or super stock, not too sure) but either way it proves that women are winning on an equal footing to men without needing any gimmicks or a separate championship.
Budget is key. Always has been and always will be irrespective of gender.
Ironically I imagine this new series will actually be very helpful to top racing teams because they will be able to see which women are serious about racing at the top level and who is not.
Any female racer who wants to get to the top will be smart enough to avoid this series like the plague as I am certain it will just lead to you being regarded as wanting an easier ride to the top by competing with a very small and unproven group of fellow drivers rather than ALL of your peers on a level playing field.
Motorsport is one of the most gender equal sports in the world and I have raced with and been beaten by women on many occasions over the years and there is some serious talent out there,
However it is logical that if only a very small percentage of those racing globally are women then the chance of a lady making it to F1 is very very slim when you compare it to men who make up the vast majority. There are only 20 seats after all.
Anyone know how many MSA race license holders in the UK are women as a percentage? I would imagine it is very small and clearly explains why so few ever make it toward the top of the sport when you think of the pyramid type structure involved in climbing up the ranks.
The opportunity to go racing is exactly the same for men and women, it purely comes down to the fact that more men choose to do it or are introduced to it.
To me this is more down to traditional gender roles in society rather than the wrong approach being taken by the FIA, MSA etc. My sister was given tap dancing shoes and i was given a pedal go kart as kids.... i am sure you can work out who went racing and who didn't years later.
Good post.Budget is key. Always has been and always will be irrespective of gender.
Ironically I imagine this new series will actually be very helpful to top racing teams because they will be able to see which women are serious about racing at the top level and who is not.
Any female racer who wants to get to the top will be smart enough to avoid this series like the plague as I am certain it will just lead to you being regarded as wanting an easier ride to the top by competing with a very small and unproven group of fellow drivers rather than ALL of your peers on a level playing field.
Motorsport is one of the most gender equal sports in the world and I have raced with and been beaten by women on many occasions over the years and there is some serious talent out there,
However it is logical that if only a very small percentage of those racing globally are women then the chance of a lady making it to F1 is very very slim when you compare it to men who make up the vast majority. There are only 20 seats after all.
Anyone know how many MSA race license holders in the UK are women as a percentage? I would imagine it is very small and clearly explains why so few ever make it toward the top of the sport when you think of the pyramid type structure involved in climbing up the ranks.
The opportunity to go racing is exactly the same for men and women, it purely comes down to the fact that more men choose to do it or are introduced to it.
To me this is more down to traditional gender roles in society rather than the wrong approach being taken by the FIA, MSA etc. My sister was given tap dancing shoes and i was given a pedal go kart as kids.... i am sure you can work out who went racing and who didn't years later.
Another major consideration is time. The drivers at the top now are those who started racing karts when they were just a few years old. Assuming there is no equality of opportunity currently and that is corrected today with 4-5yr old girls encouraged to kart in equal numbers to boys, it would be at least 15-20 years before the results of that start to be seen on the F1 grid (or other motorsport).
Same with the 'old white men in the boardrooms' argument; those guys' careers and opportunities started 40-50 years ago. Spotting an 'imbalance' now and demanding it be 'fixed' is unrealistic - it will take decades for any changes in opportunity made now to come to fruition.
TwentyFive said:
To me this is more down to traditional gender roles in society rather than the wrong approach being taken by the FIA, MSA etc. My sister was given tap dancing shoes and i was given a pedal go kart as kids.... i am sure you can work out who went racing and who didn't years later.
It's certainly a huge part of it. Assuming I am lucky enough, I will be giving my daughter a mountain bike and be equally happy if my son takes up baking.
Daniel
The Selfish Gene said:
maybe this thread is looking at it wrongly.
Maybe the women that will be in this series would never, normally have the opportunity?
That's exactly the point of it. There's no cost of entry, everyone who applies will be assessed and drives given to those who measure up. The next bit of the career is up to them, but the winner not only gets the media coverage which undoubtedly will help, but also £500k of prize money to help at the next level. Maybe the women that will be in this series would never, normally have the opportunity?
Whatever's in your pants is less of an issue than what's in your wallet in racing after all.
Woman haven't been coming through in the numbers they surely should be in a sport where absolute one on one physicality is not a huge issue and so this is an attempt to do something about it. That's got to be a positive. If it works or not time will tell.
Munter said:
I suspect it's a numbers game within a numbers game.
Of all the rich little girls in the world. How many are conditioned by their parents/society to be interested in competing with boys in karts? How many of those actually have the ability, and the friendship group supporting them in the sport?
I'd suggest it's far more likely those girls are pushed into being interested in horses by their parents/environment/friends than into motorsport. Even more would be interested in fashion/Instagram fame/being the "perfect bride" etc than either.
I think it begs another question. Why is it important for girls to be interested in being a racing driver and making it to the top? If they, as a wide group, are just not interested, despite the door being just as open or them as boys, what's the issue? Can we not just let people do what they actually want to do (within the bounds of the law)?
Obviously you favour the nurture side of the debate, but putting aside the whole gender differences argument as one better thrashed out in the NPE forum and supposing you are entirely correct and that upbringing is responsible for apparent gender differences, what use is formula W when the damage has already been done? It would seem to me an all the more meaningless and derisive gesture.Of all the rich little girls in the world. How many are conditioned by their parents/society to be interested in competing with boys in karts? How many of those actually have the ability, and the friendship group supporting them in the sport?
I'd suggest it's far more likely those girls are pushed into being interested in horses by their parents/environment/friends than into motorsport. Even more would be interested in fashion/Instagram fame/being the "perfect bride" etc than either.
I think it begs another question. Why is it important for girls to be interested in being a racing driver and making it to the top? If they, as a wide group, are just not interested, despite the door being just as open or them as boys, what's the issue? Can we not just let people do what they actually want to do (within the bounds of the law)?
~
Anyone else read Michelle Moultons comments and wonder it sounds like she's speaking through gritted teeth? She was a racer who battled a million obstacles for her success, one of which was sexism. But you need to read the books of the likes of Damon Hill and Mark Webber to realise just how much grief and aggro and obstacles and hard work and abuse and ridicule and setbacks and mire so many drivers faced to get to where they did. Without wanting or intending to trivialise sexual discrimination, I wonder that any woman who can't suck it up and spit it right back and tell you she doesn't need your charity in doing so, probably doesn't have the grit for motorsport, rather than the balls.
Drumroll said:
Never heard of her, nor has the missus and shes a member of the BWRDC
really? TV presenter, raced mini's and whatever else she can make a deal to race. I never heard of her until I met her at 2016 LeMans, she was doing the road to lemans in an LMP3 that she'd had hardly any seat time in. Her team-mate spun coming out the ford chicane before the green flag dropped which screwed her race up a fair bit. I think the guy you're replying to was joking around tho.
Despite all the hype the sums of money the series is offering is pretty small in the scheme of top level sport, I doubt it would get you a good seat in an LMP2 car and that's a long way off getting near F1 (which, of course, is only mentioned as it is the only series that non-motorsport fans have heard of).
Would it even get you a decent season in BTCC?
Would it even get you a decent season in BTCC?
Teddy Lop said:
Obviously you favour the nurture side of the debate, but putting aside the whole gender differences argument as one better thrashed out in the NPE forum and supposing you are entirely correct and that upbringing is responsible for apparent gender differences, what use is formula W when the damage has already been done? It would seem to me an all the more meaningless and derisive gesture.
Exactly. If we want more girls in karts. We have to convince society as a whole to expect girls to be in karts. But that's not likely is it. And the original comment was a response to why a rich family hasn't paid for a seat for their female offspring. Hence the overt nurture over nature angle. Rich families do not, in general, hang around in circles where the mothers and daughters race cars. They do hang around in circles when the mothers and daughters ride horses. Hence their offspring are more likely to ride a horse competitively, than race karts. And because that's what all their friends do. If they try to spear off, they'd be isolated from friendship groups, and most young girls value friendship pretty highly.All of which, I just don't see as a problem.
Keep the door open, welcome those that turn up, promote up the ladder where funds/desire allow.
Gender?...who gives a toss, do you want to drive, can you pay for it? Crack on.
Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff