Discussion
Truckosaurus said:
Despite all the hype the sums of money the series is offering is pretty small in the scheme of top level sport, I doubt it would get you a good seat in an LMP2 car and that's a long way off getting near F1 (which, of course, is only mentioned as it is the only series that non-motorsport fans have heard of).
Would it even get you a decent season in BTCC?
how much are the numbers for a season in this new champ?Would it even get you a decent season in BTCC?
I was joking about Rebecca Jackson. She's the tv presenter of an awful motoring programme and she has an ego the size of the planet. She obviously has some driving talent but I do think her motoring path is helped by her sex and her "gob".
But up to her to prove otherwise and she should put herself up for this challenge.
But up to her to prove otherwise and she should put herself up for this challenge.
Anyone ever heard of Drag Racing?
2017 NHRA Top Fuel champion (USA): Brittany Force - female.
2018 Australian Top Fuel champion: Kelly Bettes - female.
2018 FIA European Top Fuel champion: Anita Mäkelä - female.
41 years since Shirley Muldowney won the first of her three NHRA Top Fuel championships.
2017 NHRA Top Fuel champion (USA): Brittany Force - female.
2018 Australian Top Fuel champion: Kelly Bettes - female.
2018 FIA European Top Fuel champion: Anita Mäkelä - female.
41 years since Shirley Muldowney won the first of her three NHRA Top Fuel championships.
Where’s the funding coming from? Big prize money, significant cost yet the 20 drivers won’t have to pay, neither will whoever enters to try to become a driver.
In all honesty I can’t see the likes of DC doing it for nothing, so who is paying?
The $500,000 prize money’s not going to fully fund one season in GP3/IF3 and there’ll be some pressure to stand out which hasn’t happened yet for the ladies, unless whoever wins is already well funded.
What happened to ‘Dare to be different’ by the way? Are they involved in this?
Seems odd; wouldn’t be surprised if it ends up as some reality TV thing.
In all honesty I can’t see the likes of DC doing it for nothing, so who is paying?
The $500,000 prize money’s not going to fully fund one season in GP3/IF3 and there’ll be some pressure to stand out which hasn’t happened yet for the ladies, unless whoever wins is already well funded.
What happened to ‘Dare to be different’ by the way? Are they involved in this?
Seems odd; wouldn’t be surprised if it ends up as some reality TV thing.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 10th October 20:19
Munter said:
Exactly. If we want more girls in karts. We have to convince society as a whole to expect girls to be in karts. But that's not likely is it. And the original comment was a response to why a rich family hasn't paid for a seat for their female offspring. Hence the overt nurture over nature angle. Rich families do not, in general, hang around in circles where the mothers and daughters race cars. They do hang around in circles when the mothers and daughters ride horses. Hence their offspring are more likely to ride a horse competitively, than race karts. And because that's what all their friends do. If they try to spear off, they'd be isolated from friendship groups, and most young girls value friendship pretty highly.
All of which, I just don't see as a problem.
Keep the door open, welcome those that turn up, promote up the ladder where funds/desire allow.
Gender?...who gives a toss, do you want to drive, can you pay for it? Crack on.
And this is the point of this series. On the whole people do what they can see. They don't see women racing hence women don't race.All of which, I just don't see as a problem.
Keep the door open, welcome those that turn up, promote up the ladder where funds/desire allow.
Gender?...who gives a toss, do you want to drive, can you pay for it? Crack on.
If you want people to come in sometimes you have to invite them in, not just leave the door open.
Of course this series has to say it's aim is to find a female champion, but that's not really it. It's about opening the door and waving a big sign saying "women this way please".
People will judge this series on whether it finds a top class driver - but that may be unfair - if the next female F1 driver (who may be 5 or 6 now) sees its coverage and is inspired, even if they never race in Formula W, then arguably it has done its job.
Michelle Mouton made it to the top flight in rallying on talent alone .
Louise Aitkin Walker got pretty near the top on talent alone .
Davina Galicia (sp?) Was parachuted into the sport at the top and flopped dropped down into truck racing and won a scripted race .
There are a couple of promising girls floating around the Ginettas and a couple in f3 around UK and Europe and at least one in GTs that is gaining a good reputation .
Not forgetting that Stirling Moss had a sister that won a world championship, something that he never managed. Pat Moss-Carlson was a lovely lady that I met several times .
Louise Aitkin Walker got pretty near the top on talent alone .
Davina Galicia (sp?) Was parachuted into the sport at the top and flopped dropped down into truck racing and won a scripted race .
There are a couple of promising girls floating around the Ginettas and a couple in f3 around UK and Europe and at least one in GTs that is gaining a good reputation .
Not forgetting that Stirling Moss had a sister that won a world championship, something that he never managed. Pat Moss-Carlson was a lovely lady that I met several times .
I knew someone would bring up drag racing. They always do.
Fitness plays little part, hence why retirement age men still dabble like Eddie Hill and a few others over the years. It is not as skilful as most other motorsports, it does require skills, reactions, sensitivity to conditions, but not in the same way a bike racer, a motocrosser, a track racer does really. So that is why it is easier for women to compete and they have done for decades, in the biggest classes.
But there are very few categories like this, I followed one years ago, it was short oval stuff, entry level but still biggish budgets, full contact cars, very tough and it was dominated by girls, why? Because their Dads were ex racers, it was hereditary to these girls, they grew up with it, they were equals, there was no girl and boy, watching it you realised this was the next step, when there is no gender, they were just racing their mates.
it was eye opening, as they literally dominated the racing for a few years.
Did they move up after they hit late teens? Not many of them, as you might expect, but some did and they are doing fine. In ever tougher racing, against men and teens like them.
Fitness plays little part, hence why retirement age men still dabble like Eddie Hill and a few others over the years. It is not as skilful as most other motorsports, it does require skills, reactions, sensitivity to conditions, but not in the same way a bike racer, a motocrosser, a track racer does really. So that is why it is easier for women to compete and they have done for decades, in the biggest classes.
But there are very few categories like this, I followed one years ago, it was short oval stuff, entry level but still biggish budgets, full contact cars, very tough and it was dominated by girls, why? Because their Dads were ex racers, it was hereditary to these girls, they grew up with it, they were equals, there was no girl and boy, watching it you realised this was the next step, when there is no gender, they were just racing their mates.
it was eye opening, as they literally dominated the racing for a few years.
Did they move up after they hit late teens? Not many of them, as you might expect, but some did and they are doing fine. In ever tougher racing, against men and teens like them.
chunder27 said:
But there are very few categories like this, I followed one years ago, it was short oval stuff, entry level but still biggish budgets, full contact cars, very tough and it was dominated by girls, why? Because their Dads were ex racers, it was hereditary to these girls, they grew up with it, they were equals, there was no girl and boy, watching it you realised this was the next step, when there is no gender, they were just racing their mates.
it was eye opening, as they literally dominated the racing for a few years.
Did they move up after they hit late teens? Not many of them, as you might expect, but some did and they are doing fine. In ever tougher racing, against men and teens like them.
Absolutely, and there are girls racing in the 2CV series for instance. It's a reasonably social events, families come to watch, including daughters, who then aspire to behind the wheel.it was eye opening, as they literally dominated the racing for a few years.
Did they move up after they hit late teens? Not many of them, as you might expect, but some did and they are doing fine. In ever tougher racing, against men and teens like them.
Presumably one teenaged the peer pressure of life and wanting to fit in takes over and the fact they have a minority hobby doesn't have appeal prehaps, obviously you get a dropout rate across the board, and or funding can dry out.
Certainly it's very much slow a wholistic process if you're trying to break stereotypes. Girls into engineering is the same deal. I can understand why successful girls might take a dim view of this, they didn't need it after all, but I still don't think a good bit of flag waving is a bad thing. Who knows.
Daniel
grumpy52 said:
Michelle Mouton made it to the top flight in rallying on talent alone .
Louise Aitkin Walker got pretty near the top on talent alone .
Davina Galicia (sp?) Was parachuted into the sport at the top and flopped dropped down into truck racing and won a scripted race .
There are a couple of promising girls floating around the Ginettas and a couple in f3 around UK and Europe and at least one in GTs that is gaining a good reputation .
Not forgetting that Stirling Moss had a sister that won a world championship, something that he never managed. Pat Moss-Carlson was a lovely lady that I met several times .
Don’t forget Vicky Butler-Henderson, Racing Driver and TV presenter.......... Louise Aitkin Walker got pretty near the top on talent alone .
Davina Galicia (sp?) Was parachuted into the sport at the top and flopped dropped down into truck racing and won a scripted race .
There are a couple of promising girls floating around the Ginettas and a couple in f3 around UK and Europe and at least one in GTs that is gaining a good reputation .
Not forgetting that Stirling Moss had a sister that won a world championship, something that he never managed. Pat Moss-Carlson was a lovely lady that I met several times .
Decent comment from Jade Edwards on Twitter :-
I’ll always support females in motorsport...
However, there’s already many women who’ve created a platform by themselves.
Why not select 4-5 females to create a ‘Rising Stars’ style scheme, helping them reach the top of ‘our’ game.
For me, segregation was never the answer.
I’ll always support females in motorsport...
However, there’s already many women who’ve created a platform by themselves.
Why not select 4-5 females to create a ‘Rising Stars’ style scheme, helping them reach the top of ‘our’ game.
For me, segregation was never the answer.
I think this quote by Charlie Martin in the BBC article sums it up for me:
"This series is founded on segregation, and while it may create opportunities for some female drivers, it sends a clear message that segregation is acceptable.
"We don't discriminate in sport based on race, so it is particularly jarring that we feel it is acceptable to do so based on gender in 2018. As racers, we want to compete against the best drivers - regardless of age, race, sexual orientation or gender - and prove we are the best at what we do."
Yes, nurturing is good. Giving opportunities to the struggling is good. But a series that says "Women aren't good enough to complete on equal terms with men, so let's give them their own little series, bless them" isn't good.
"This series is founded on segregation, and while it may create opportunities for some female drivers, it sends a clear message that segregation is acceptable.
"We don't discriminate in sport based on race, so it is particularly jarring that we feel it is acceptable to do so based on gender in 2018. As racers, we want to compete against the best drivers - regardless of age, race, sexual orientation or gender - and prove we are the best at what we do."
Yes, nurturing is good. Giving opportunities to the struggling is good. But a series that says "Women aren't good enough to complete on equal terms with men, so let's give them their own little series, bless them" isn't good.
Clockwork Cupcake said:
I think this quote by Charlie Martin in the BBC article sums it up for me:
"This series is founded on segregation, and while it may create opportunities for some female drivers, it sends a clear message that segregation is acceptable.
"We don't discriminate in sport based on race, so it is particularly jarring that we feel it is acceptable to do so based on gender in 2018. As racers, we want to compete against the best drivers - regardless of age, race, sexual orientation or gender - and prove we are the best at what we do."
Yes, nurturing is good. Giving opportunities to the struggling is good. But a series that says "Women aren't good enough to complete on equal terms with men, so let's give them their own little series, bless them" isn't good.
I'm all for co-ed motorsport - and I'm out arguing with myself further up in the thread.......but..........."This series is founded on segregation, and while it may create opportunities for some female drivers, it sends a clear message that segregation is acceptable.
"We don't discriminate in sport based on race, so it is particularly jarring that we feel it is acceptable to do so based on gender in 2018. As racers, we want to compete against the best drivers - regardless of age, race, sexual orientation or gender - and prove we are the best at what we do."
Yes, nurturing is good. Giving opportunities to the struggling is good. But a series that says "Women aren't good enough to complete on equal terms with men, so let's give them their own little series, bless them" isn't good.
that's a bit over the top I think.
Many many sports are segregated. In fact most are for reasons of performance mismatch means it wouldn't be fair.
I'm not saying this is a good idea, in motorsport particularly, I just think that quote is going a bit far.
The Selfish Gene said:
next some idiot will suggest a handicap system like Golf - to make it as fair as possible
actually that's a point.............why do we have women and men's golf being separate?
Why are there women tees?
where will it all end!
Due to the genetics of men and women there are sports where a woman could train just as hard if not harder than a man, and still not be competitive due to physical strength/stamina etc. That last 0.5% makes a difference at the top level.actually that's a point.............why do we have women and men's golf being separate?
Why are there women tees?
where will it all end!
Motorsport is great at not being one of those sports. The equipment creates a far more even playing field, such that gender differences (and many disabilities) don't make a significant difference.
The equipment for athletics/golf/tennis/boxing etc doesn't even the field. Thus it makes sense to allow women to reach the top of the game in their own category.
Munter said:
Motorsport is great at not being one of those sports. The equipment creates a far more even playing field, such that gender differences (and many disabilities) don't make a significant difference.
Exactly. Imagine if it was announced that there was a new series for disabled drivers. I think Alex Zanardi and Billy monger would have something to say about how they don't need their own series.
Clockwork Cupcake said:
Munter said:
Motorsport is great at not being one of those sports. The equipment creates a far more even playing field, such that gender differences (and many disabilities) don't make a significant difference.
Exactly. Imagine if it was announced that there was a new series for disabled drivers. I think Alex Zanardi and Billy monger would have something to say about how they don't need their own series.
F1, WEC etc - does the equipment genuinely at that level not highlight gender differences?
I don't know - I've never driven that sort of car
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