Discussion
slipstream 1985 said:
To me all this series has done is devalue Jamie Chadwicks reputation.
How's that work then, win two, on podium for all but last race, last race brought it home.Oh and in the meantime went off and won a 24 hr race.
Only way it could damage her reputation is if you were mysoginistically looking for something to do that
slipstream 1985 said:
To me all this series has done is devalue Jamie Chadwicks reputation.
It's a bit awkward, isn't it?It appears most of the participants are barely any quicker than an amateur club racer and certainly not likely to trouble the international single seat series.
Is the uncomfortable truth that, on the whole, women are slower than men at the higher levels? -we have gender separation in most sports due to different physical attributes - has this series just demonstrated that we would have to consider gender separation in motorsport, too?
All it's done is highlight that if you want your daughter to be as quick as a bloke you need to put her in a kart at 4 and have her race every week until she makes F1 at 18ish. The series should be getting girls interested in racing at that younger age to give them an opportunity later in life.
Do we really think an early 30s girl that's had 10 years out of racing will now jump into top level because shes done well in this series. Not a chance.
Do we really think an early 30s girl that's had 10 years out of racing will now jump into top level because shes done well in this series. Not a chance.
Poppiecock said:
Is the uncomfortable truth that, on the whole, women are slower than men at the higher levels?
Currently, yes. The aim of W Series is to fix this though.For years motorsport has been a sport that boys enjoy, they see other boys on TV racing and think they can do that one day.
Girls on the other hand, it has been quite rare for them to see another on TV in any capacity, even rarer to see one winning!
This series will encourage thousands of girls over the world to get involved in motorsport in one capacity or another. The more girls get in at a young age, the faster the average becomes...
Also bear in mind this is year 1, it was never going to be a perfect selection of driver skill, or even car/race format, that'll come with time. every year, it'll improve and as first seasons of motorsport go, it's been pretty good.
We've got a British champion, of that we should be proud, not cynical.
Robmarriott said:
Currently, yes. The aim of W Series is to fix this though.
For years motorsport has been a sport that boys enjoy, they see other boys on TV racing and think they can do that one day.
Girls on the other hand, it has been quite rare for them to see another on TV in any capacity, even rarer to see one winning!
This series will encourage thousands of girls over the world to get involved in motorsport in one capacity or another. The more girls get in at a young age, the faster the average becomes...
Also bear in mind this is year 1, it was never going to be a perfect selection of driver skill, or even car/race format, that'll come with time. every year, it'll improve and as first seasons of motorsport go, it's been pretty good.
We've got a British champion, of that we should be proud, not cynical.
I'm cynical because it seems to be very artificial.For years motorsport has been a sport that boys enjoy, they see other boys on TV racing and think they can do that one day.
Girls on the other hand, it has been quite rare for them to see another on TV in any capacity, even rarer to see one winning!
This series will encourage thousands of girls over the world to get involved in motorsport in one capacity or another. The more girls get in at a young age, the faster the average becomes...
Also bear in mind this is year 1, it was never going to be a perfect selection of driver skill, or even car/race format, that'll come with time. every year, it'll improve and as first seasons of motorsport go, it's been pretty good.
We've got a British champion, of that we should be proud, not cynical.
We don't appear to be able to say that, in general, boys will be more likely to pursue motorsports from an early age than girls. Just as girls are more likely to want to do synchronised swimming or rhythmic gymnastics.
I may yet be proven wrong, but all this series has done so far is show that gender does play a part in your speed in a race car. Just as it does when running on a running track - but this is surely the opposite of what the series was meant to achieve?
Edited by Poppiecock on Saturday 17th August 12:10
slipstream 1985 said:
To me all this series has done is devalue Jamie Chadwicks reputation.
I've a bit of sympathy with this view. I was a bit disappointed with some of her race performances - in fact, one could be critical of them all.Race 1 - she was on pole by 1.7 s but won the race by only 1.3.
Race 2 - pole again but finished 2nd over 8 s behind the winner.
Race 3 - just hung on to win by 0.5 s.
Race 4 - 2nd on the grid but never challenged Garcia and finished 3rd.
Race 5 - 3rd on the grid but never looked like challenging for the win, finished 8 s back and 3 behind second.
Finale - after a promising start looked nervy and all at sea on a track she's supposed to know well.
But when you think about it there is a lot of pressure being the favourite in this competition, essentially representing your entire gender, dealing with negative press from both feminists and anti-feminists and knowing that the hounds are ready to jump on the smallest mistake (I'm aware of the irony that I'm criticising her for not winning well enough). So I suppose, while she didn't dominate to the extent I expected (and her first quali performance suggested), when you think about the emotions of it, it's kind of understandable.
The engineer I spoke with on Sunday, post-racing, said that the WS cars were a couple of secs slower than a British F3 car at this Circuit.
He also said there were inevitably small variations in the WS cars’ performance, hence the policy of swapping cars between the races - I think he said the same car had won the last two races but with different drivers.
Nevertheless, having seen it for real, I was pleasantly impressed by the operation and the interest it has created in its embryonic year. Next year should be even more interesting.
He also said there were inevitably small variations in the WS cars’ performance, hence the policy of swapping cars between the races - I think he said the same car had won the last two races but with different drivers.
Nevertheless, having seen it for real, I was pleasantly impressed by the operation and the interest it has created in its embryonic year. Next year should be even more interesting.
I am not sure why a comparison with F3 is needed , unless it is for someone to point out that as F3 quicker , then women are crap drivers . Let's not forget that Jamie has raced in , and won in British F3 . Sadly , it is a much devalued series, as for decades it was hugely supported and vitally important en route to greater things . But a win is a win - and the same with her W Series triumph - you can unpick stats and furrow brows at lap times but she won - it really is as simple as that.
coppice said:
I am not sure why a comparison with F3 is needed , unless it is for someone to point out that as F3 quicker , then women are crap drivers . Let's not forget that Jamie has raced in , and won in British F3 . Sadly , it is a much devalued series, as for decades it was hugely supported and vitally important en route to greater things . But a win is a win - and the same with her W Series triumph - you can unpick stats and furrow brows at lap times but she won - it really is as simple as that.
And it’s now as simple as giving FIA F3 or F2 a shot. That’ll give a proper comparison of ability.
REALIST123 said:
And it’s now as simple as giving FIA F3 or F2 a shot.
That’ll give a proper comparison of ability.
I said back on page 1 of this thread, back before season started, that Chadwick really needs to be in F2. Anything else would now be a step back, unless she wants to focus on GT/WEC progression (equally valid IMHO; there are quite a few world class drivers in WEC, who just couldn't get on with a single-seater).That’ll give a proper comparison of ability.
Nothing I've seen in W series changes that opinion for me.
hammo19 said:
The success of this series can surely only be judged by what happens to the top 3 next. Where will they slot in general motorsport and at what level? This is what the series is all about, I thought.
The success of the series will only be seen in 15/20 years time, when we’ll find out if it has motivated young girls to take up motorsport and whether they make it through to the top levels.I strongly agree with the sentiment that this series demeans those who take part; as has been said many times, they’re basically admitting that they can’t compete against the men. However the one thing it does have going for it is to show children that women race as well, it’s not just a “boys thing”. This is a good way to get girls into the sport (who at the ages of 4 to 10 won’t be worried about the politics of a women’s only championship).
Hopefully one day we’ll have an even split of men and women in the sport. Of course it might turn out that, like with almost all other sports, the elite men will be quicker than the elite women, possibly due to the huge physical demands of a F1 car.
I am not sure you are right actually . Every series seems to have to sell itself as a stopping off point en route to the great be -all and end-all that Formula 1 has become . And it is massively delusional , on the part of series organisers as well as participants who ignore some very simple maths . There are fewer seats in F1 than for half a century and thanks to safe and anodyne circuits and bulletproof cars, hence no injury or deaths to speak of , the turnover is incredibly low . Look at Raikkonen , who has been in F1 since 1924 , or so it feels like .
Add in the obscene cost of F1 and anybody with double digit IQ should realise the odds of getting , then keeping, an F1 drive are minuscule.
Back in the day there was no shortage of good drivers who stuck to a level , excelled at it and didn't want, or need to progress . They might get the odd F1 drive, but it wasn't core to their existence - people like Redman Elford , Bell , Stuck , Wollek and so on were great in sports cars, F2 . F5000 etc . I don't see any issue in W Series being successful in its own right , not just to be passed through en route to an F1 (or F2 ) drive that will never happen
Add in the obscene cost of F1 and anybody with double digit IQ should realise the odds of getting , then keeping, an F1 drive are minuscule.
Back in the day there was no shortage of good drivers who stuck to a level , excelled at it and didn't want, or need to progress . They might get the odd F1 drive, but it wasn't core to their existence - people like Redman Elford , Bell , Stuck , Wollek and so on were great in sports cars, F2 . F5000 etc . I don't see any issue in W Series being successful in its own right , not just to be passed through en route to an F1 (or F2 ) drive that will never happen
The fact is most of the women racing in w series have raced and won against the men in other formula. Sarah Moore and Alice powell both race against the boys in Ginetta junior and won races, Chadwick has won nurburgring 24hrs along with British f3 race and other lower formula races and the other 2 brits have won in there respective race series. The biggest problem is funding which I think is even harder for women over men in getting sponsors to keep on going racing.
Personally don't think any of the current w series drivers will get into f1 but only 1/2 drivers in f2 will either. If it gets the image to young girls that you can go racing and or being behind the scenes the same with the dare to be different campaign. It all help try and bridge the gap which does exist its not about trying to make it easier but changing the perception that racing is for the men.
Personally don't think any of the current w series drivers will get into f1 but only 1/2 drivers in f2 will either. If it gets the image to young girls that you can go racing and or being behind the scenes the same with the dare to be different campaign. It all help try and bridge the gap which does exist its not about trying to make it easier but changing the perception that racing is for the men.
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