W Series

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Discussion

Nampahc Niloc

112 posts

23 months

Sunday 18th August
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vonuber said:
Nampahc Niloc said:
I strongly agree with the sentiment that this series demeans those who take part; as has been said many times, they’re basically admitting that they can’t compete against the men.
I would pay a lot of money to see you say that to them all in a room.
Fair comment

Zoobeef

3,973 posts

103 months

Sunday 18th August
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MG CHRIS said:
. The biggest problem is funding which I think is even harder for women over men in getting sponsors to keep on going racing.
Hahahahahahaha and here is the biggest bullst on the thread. Yeah be a bloke and companies are queuing up to give you money to race.
If a girl was good it would be EASIER for her to get sponsorship to race as it adds something.
Pull the other one with the woe is me, I'm a girl bks.

MG CHRIS

6,565 posts

112 months

Sunday 18th August
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Any need for that I didn't say it was easy for blokes to get sponsorship just s general note the women find it harder to keep going in the sport where the w series helps with the prize money to keep going.

REALIST123

11,800 posts

98 months

Sunday 18th August
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MG CHRIS said:
Any need for that I didn't say it was easy for blokes to get sponsorship just s general note the women find it harder to keep going in the sport where the w series helps with the prize money to keep going.
He didn’t make the point well but there’s little doubt that a decent female driver would attract more support than a male of the same standard.

It’s still difficult of course. I doubt there’re many out there who’ve made it to a high level with genuine, independent sponsorship at lower levels, as opposed to family money or connections. If any.

andrewcliffe

468 posts

169 months

Monday 19th August
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Pericoloso said:
Did someone say that W series uses same cars spec as Formula regional ?

I saw a rather dull race of those at Vallelunga in May,which interestingly Sophia Floersch is an entry in.
I wonder if she shunned W series or possibly was ruled out due to that rather large shunt she had.
Yes.

The W series car uses the Tatuus F3 T-318 chassis coupled with a 270hp (Alfa) turbo engine which should be similar to the Formula Regional European Championships you saw at Vallelunga in May. The chassis and engine is used in Asia, although with different wheels, tyres and other items.

Since 'proper F3' in the accepted sense died - FIA Formula 3 was disbanded at end of 2019 and the F3 name used to re-badge GP3 so that F1 events have F1, F2 and now F3 - 'regional F3' was suggested as a stepping stone - but as its regional, you have different cars to slightly different specs as its unlikely they will race together.

Tatuus have a chassis which complies, Mygale also have one and Onroak have one as well.

BRDC F3 in the UK is a Tatuus F4 chassis but as the cars don't have a halo, it wouldn't comply with the Regional F3 ethos, so maybe the next car will, especially if they wish to retain use of the F3 name.

Japanese F3 and the Euroformula European series are sticking with the traditional F3 concept (no turbos, high compression 2 litre engines with restrictors) and the 2020 car will have a halo, but I understand the current chassis can be upgraded so teams do not have to go out and spend £ 100k on a new tub.

Ms. Floresch said that she wanted to race and beat the best in the sport, and in order to do so had to race with the boys - so ruled herself out of W Series. Ms Chadwick was happy to race in W series but also enter races in other series and championships.

Pericoloso

40,351 posts

108 months

Monday 19th August
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Thanks for that full and interesting answer.....thumbup

I had a feeling Sophia Florsch chose to go her own way rather than W series.

Connectors

178 posts

34 months

Monday 19th August
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REALIST123 said:
He didn’t make the point well but there’s little doubt that a decent female driver would attract more support than a male of the same standard.
That's sort of correct, but a male driver of the standard of what's seen to be a decent female driver wouldn't be of interest to sponsors.

It's about time people stopped comparing male and female racing drivers, even the best of the W Series drivers wouldn't qualify inside the top 20 in an FIA F3 race.

If any of the W Series drivers move to a 'proper' championship, I look forward to being proved wrong.

Pericoloso

40,351 posts

108 months

Monday 19th August
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Connectors said:
REALIST123 said:
He didn’t make the point well but there’s little doubt that a decent female driver would attract more support than a male of the same standard.
That's sort of correct, but a male driver of the standard of what's seen to be a decent female driver wouldn't be of interest to sponsors.

It's about time people stopped comparing male and female racing drivers, even the best of the W Series drivers wouldn't qualify inside the top 20 in an FIA F3 race.

If any of the W Series drivers move to a 'proper' championship, I look forward to being proved wrong.
I don't know where she qualified but Alice Powell has scored points in a GP3 race.

JonChalk

2,128 posts

55 months

Monday 19th August
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Connectors said:
It's about time people stopped comparing male and female racing drivers, even the best of the W Series drivers wouldn't qualify inside the top 20 in an FIA F3 race.
Bullst!

Powell competed in GP3, with a best finish of 8th, not stellar but regularly nowhere near the back quali or race.

Beitske Visser has finished easily top half of old FR3.5 grid (so way faster and harder to drive than F3) several times.

Chadwick is easily capable of F2 points.


Connectors

178 posts

34 months

Monday 19th August
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Pericoloso said:
I don't know where she qualified but Alice Powell has scored points in a GP3 race.
Finished 19th in the championship, and technically you're incorrect as you used the plural of point, which suggest that she scored more than 1.

Connectors

178 posts

34 months

Monday 19th August
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JonChalk said:
Bullst!

Powell competed in GP3, with a best finish of 8th, not stellar but regularly nowhere near the back quali or race.

Beitske Visser has finished easily top half of old FR3.5 grid (so way faster and harder to drive than F3) several times.

Chadwick is easily capable of F2 points.
I hope you're right, but none of those are going to give you the chance to prove me wrong next season.

Koln-RS

2,863 posts

157 months

Monday 19th August
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From my limited understanding of the sport, W Series aside, with most other Championships, whether the driver is male or female, the biggest determining factor is most often the ‘Team’.
As with F1, in virtually every other formula, certain teams dominate the results, whilst others struggle. And the differential, as ever, is cost.
So I thought the car swapping in WS was quite a refreshing idea.

StevieBee

7,877 posts

200 months

Monday 19th August
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slipstream 1985 said:
To me all this series has done is devalue Jamie Chadwicks reputation.
I can't agree on this one.

To ascend through the ranks in motor sport, you need speed and success. You also need that something else....dare I use the phrase...the 'X-Factor'. Part of this is recognition that exceeds the expected levels. Lewis Hamilton had this - he was well known before he raced in F1.

If you asked people not particularly interested in motor racing to name a circuit racing driver not in F1, the chances are that they would name Billy monger (for sadly, the wrong reasons) and Jamie Chadwick.

As I mentioned a few posts back, when was the last time a non-F1 driver appeared on BBC Breakfast telly?

Chadwick's stock was already rising before W Series and has risen even more as a result of her taking the title. The only way her reputation will devalue is if she fails to capitalise on this next year as the world will be watching.


coppice

5,486 posts

89 months

Tuesday 20th August
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Connectors said:
That's sort of correct, but a male driver of the standard of what's seen to be a decent female driver wouldn't be of interest to sponsors.

It's about time people stopped comparing male and female racing drivers, even the best of the W Series drivers wouldn't qualify inside the top 20 in an FIA F3 race.

If any of the W Series drivers move to a 'proper' championship, I look forward to being proved wrong.
So is it women racing drivers you don't like , women in general or the fact that a stepping stone has been created to make up for decades of sexism? Many series impose parameters as to who enters or who can score points - age , experience etc can all be factors - so why snipe at one that uses sex as a criterion ?

But even if you are right - does it matter? I am happy to watch a Serena Williams even if a Nadal could beat her.

StevieBee

7,877 posts

200 months

Tuesday 20th August
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Pericoloso said:
Connectors said:
REALIST123 said:
He didn’t make the point well but there’s little doubt that a decent female driver would attract more support than a male of the same standard.
That's sort of correct, but a male driver of the standard of what's seen to be a decent female driver wouldn't be of interest to sponsors.

It's about time people stopped comparing male and female racing drivers, even the best of the W Series drivers wouldn't qualify inside the top 20 in an FIA F3 race.

If any of the W Series drivers move to a 'proper' championship, I look forward to being proved wrong.
I don't know where she qualified but Alice Powell has scored points in a GP3 race.
Chadwick has won two British GT Championship races, one British F3 race (regular top five qualifier as well), and won six rounds of the MRF Championship.


Nampahc Niloc

112 posts

23 months

Tuesday 20th August
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coppice said:
Connectors said:
That's sort of correct, but a male driver of the standard of what's seen to be a decent female driver wouldn't be of interest to sponsors.

It's about time people stopped comparing male and female racing drivers, even the best of the W Series drivers wouldn't qualify inside the top 20 in an FIA F3 race.

If any of the W Series drivers move to a 'proper' championship, I look forward to being proved wrong.
So is it women racing drivers you don't like , women in general or the fact that a stepping stone has been created to make up for decades of sexism? Many series impose parameters as to who enters or who can score points - age , experience etc can all be factors - so why snipe at one that uses sex as a criterion ?

But even if you are right - does it matter? I am happy to watch a Serena Williams even if a Nadal could beat her.
I don’t think his post suggested he has anything against women at all. Just than women are more likely to attract sponsorship, which makes sense since they are a rare commodity in the sport and hence something of a novelty.

In fact it is you who is suggesting that women cannot compete with men and hence deserve a separate series. I for one would prefer women and men were given the same opportunities. If it turns out women can’t compete with men then, fair enough, motorsport can go the same route as other sports and segregate the sexes. But until that is proven, better we compete alongside each other.

It is possible that there is an inherent sexism in the sport, like in some other industries, and women are being overlooked, but I personally have not seen any evidence of. It is a very easy allegation to make, that if anyone denies they can be labelled as part of the problem.

What needs to change is how people (especially young girls) see the sport as a boys/men thing. If parents keep giving cars to boys and dolls to girls then we will never see a change.


Edited by Nampahc Niloc on Tuesday 20th August 09:57

coppice

5,486 posts

89 months

Tuesday 20th August
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I am not suggesting that women can't compete at all. I merely admit the possibility our friend is right about respective abilities . I will be convinced the sexism in our sport is on the decline once this thread exceeds the sheer volume of waffle about bloody grid girls , when middle aged men asserted their god given right to perv over girls 30 years younger than them .

REALIST123

11,800 posts

98 months

Tuesday 20th August
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Pericoloso said:
Connectors said:
REALIST123 said:
He didn’t make the point well but there’s little doubt that a decent female driver would attract more support than a male of the same standard.
That's sort of correct, but a male driver of the standard of what's seen to be a decent female driver wouldn't be of interest to sponsors.

It's about time people stopped comparing male and female racing drivers, even the best of the W Series drivers wouldn't qualify inside the top 20 in an FIA F3 race.

If any of the W Series drivers move to a 'proper' championship, I look forward to being proved wrong.
I don't know where she qualified but Alice Powell has scored points in a GP3 race.
Yes, scored a point in 2012.

In 2013 she contested the MSVR F3 Cup. A club series without a doubt. She was beaten by several pretty ordinary clubbies several times over that season and despite being in the leading team.

At one meeting sone established F3 racers joined the F3 Cup for qualifying points (Sainz, Da Costa, IIRC). The difference between club and professional racers was very clear. Powell is definitely the former.

Anyway, as I’ve said, let them try F2 and we’ll see how they go.

Edited by REALIST123 on Tuesday 20th August 13:17

thegreenhell

6,108 posts

164 months

Tuesday 20th August
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Nampahc Niloc said:
I don’t think his post suggested he has anything against women at all. Just than women are more likely to attract sponsorship, which makes sense since they are a rare commodity in the sport and hence something of a novelty.
Is there any evidence for this, though? It's been mentioned a few times in this thread, but if it's true then where are all the heavily-sponsored female drivers? I would have thought the opposite is true in reality, hence another reason why a W Series has to exist to support female drivers.

If we accept that a female has the same driving potential as a male (and I think we should), then surely with this supposed easy access to sponsorship we should be seeing well-funded women rising through the ranks, just as we see well-funded males doing so?

Nampahc Niloc

112 posts

23 months

Tuesday 20th August
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thegreenhell said:
Nampahc Niloc said:
Is there any evidence for this, though? It's been mentioned a few times in this thread, but if it's true then where are all the heavily-sponsored female drivers? I would have thought the opposite is true in reality, hence another reason why a W Series has to exist to support female drivers.

If we accept that a female has the same driving potential as a male (and I think we should), then surely with this supposed easy access to sponsorship we should be seeing well-funded women rising through the ranks, just as we see well-funded males doing so?
Your right. There is little evidence of it, though it is a logical argument.

I think the reason that we don’t see women rising to the top is that there are just so few women in the sport, so the chance of having a woman who is good enough is minuscule compared to men. Until we have far more girls coming through at the grass routes levels, then the odds are massively stacked against it.