Discussion
This is the FIA we are talking about, red tape, regulations, there's probably a contractual/legal reason for sponsors why there cannot be a competing identical F3 formula on the same bill. Don't forget FW and F3 do run on the same weekends at F1 events. So they have to be different. Who's the official FIA F3 Champion is there's 2 F3 series running.
LukeBrown66 said:
I would imagine the people running the series are quite happy there is no direct comparison, for obvious reasons, makes it easier to sell your champions based on very little data.
But also will make it harder for them to get selected for F2. That runs against one of the original intents of the W series 
TheDeuce said:
Does anyone know why in comparison to F3, FW has...
- No DRS
- Smaller, less sticky tyres than F3
- Less powerful engines
Intrigued on the basis that it's kind of supposed to be an alternative route as opposed to F3. Seems like it would be simpler and more representative if it was just an F3 clone but for women only.
I presume this is because it is an International F3/Formula Regional specification series of which there are numerous already as opposed to FIA F3 which is above them all on the motorsport ladder. W Series is not a replacement for or equal to FIA F3 nor what it ever going to be.- No DRS
- Smaller, less sticky tyres than F3
- Less powerful engines
Intrigued on the basis that it's kind of supposed to be an alternative route as opposed to F3. Seems like it would be simpler and more representative if it was just an F3 clone but for women only.
The entrants are not F3 level either, in reality W Series is low level Formula Regional series where the next progressive series is to the likes of the Formula Regional European Championship which provides a more competitive environment than the woeful competition W Series provides.
Jamie Chadwick highlights the problem with W Series, despite performing strongly in W Series her results in Formula Regional European Championship were far from strong and she finished the season behind two drivers who didn't compete in every race as she did.
TheDeuce said:
But also will make it harder for them to get selected for F2. That runs against one of the original intents of the W series
The drivers in question are never in a million years going to get selected for an F2 drive, they lack too much experience. Edited by Peacockantony on Sunday 3rd October 18:09
Peacockantony said:
TheDeuce said:
Does anyone know why in comparison to F3, FW has...
- No DRS
- Smaller, less sticky tyres than F3
- Less powerful engines
Intrigued on the basis that it's kind of supposed to be an alternative route as opposed to F3. Seems like it would be simpler and more representative if it was just an F3 clone but for women only.
I presume this is because it is an International F3/Formula Regional specification series of which there are numerous already as opposed to FIA F3 which is above them all on the motorsport ladder. W Series is not a replacement for or equal to FIA F3 nor what it ever going to be.- No DRS
- Smaller, less sticky tyres than F3
- Less powerful engines
Intrigued on the basis that it's kind of supposed to be an alternative route as opposed to F3. Seems like it would be simpler and more representative if it was just an F3 clone but for women only.
The entrants are not F3 level either, in reality W Series is low level Formula Regional series where the next progressive series is to the likes of the Formula Regional European Championship which provides a more competitive environment than the woeful competition W Series provides.
Jamie Chadwick highlights the problem with W Series, despite performing strongly in W Series her results in Formula Regional European Championship were far from strong and she finished the season behind two drivers who didn't compete in every race as she did.
TheDeuce said:
But also will make it harder for them to get selected for F2. That runs against one of the original intents of the W series
The drivers in question are never in a million years going to get selected for an F2 drive, they lack too much experience. Edited by Peacockantony on Sunday 3rd October 18:09
Just feels a bit like the women have been shunted in to a siding, taken out of the mainstream formula progression. Your point about Chadwick is fair, but I believe that to an extent personal performance is influenced by the target. The female drivers target should at least be F3 standard - and if it was, I believe some would achieve that level.
Edited by TheDeuce on Sunday 3rd October 21:04
They can't be the same because it is not the same, it is not an F3 level series. The driver ability and competetiveness are nowhere close to be at a similar level. To be regarded as at the level of F3 they would need to show that and this series does not. It is closer to F4 than F3. There are too many differences between them for me to be able to post them in the 10 minutes Ihave this morning.
They aren't being shunted aside since competing in this series is entirely voluntary and cerainly not necessary to climb the ladder. The reality is the only ones that are 'forced' to compete are the ones that have run out of ability at the Formula Regional level and don't have what it takes to rise any further.
W series PR may like to present it as an important and necessary series but in reality it is just another pre-F3 championship and is a weak one up against some pretty decent series.
They aren't being shunted aside since competing in this series is entirely voluntary and cerainly not necessary to climb the ladder. The reality is the only ones that are 'forced' to compete are the ones that have run out of ability at the Formula Regional level and don't have what it takes to rise any further.
W series PR may like to present it as an important and necessary series but in reality it is just another pre-F3 championship and is a weak one up against some pretty decent series.
That the series exists at all is a win and that has depended on support and sponsorship from a number of parties. They presumably had to go to tender for 20 rolling chassis and engines for each season. Who's to say that 20x current F3 chassis and engine packages were available? or were sensible value compared to what else was available?
I think I remember hearing that Alfa Romeo were very supportive.
I think I remember hearing that Alfa Romeo were very supportive.
I know an engineer who works in various series, and he pointed out that Chadwick won races and finished 4th in 2020 Asian F3, but struggled with the car in FR.
It seems that there is a physicality issue in the cars from, say, FR to F2 that females find much harder to cope with, whereas in F1 you get pas.
But, you have to prove yourself in these underlying formulae first, and that could be the barrier.
It seems that there is a physicality issue in the cars from, say, FR to F2 that females find much harder to cope with, whereas in F1 you get pas.
But, you have to prove yourself in these underlying formulae first, and that could be the barrier.
Congratulations to Jamie Chadwick, defending her title in style with two wins this weekend.
Star of the weekend though, that going to the young (born in 2003!) Abbi Pulling, a pole and a podium in only her third weekend in the series. She goes top of my next-woman-to-drive-in-F1 list.
Star of the weekend though, that going to the young (born in 2003!) Abbi Pulling, a pole and a podium in only her third weekend in the series. She goes top of my next-woman-to-drive-in-F1 list.
Sandpit Steve said:
Congratulations to Jamie Chadwick, defending her title in style with two wins this weekend.
Star of the weekend though, that going to the young (born in 2003!) Abbi Pulling, a pole and a podium in only her third weekend in the series. She goes top of my next-woman-to-drive-in-F1 list.
Agreed!Star of the weekend though, that going to the young (born in 2003!) Abbi Pulling, a pole and a podium in only her third weekend in the series. She goes top of my next-woman-to-drive-in-F1 list.
Chadwick has been super impressive this weekend. Time for her to move on, I think. Take the super license points and prove herself in F3/F2.
Pulling does look good - seventh in the championship despite only doing half the races.
Mr Tidy said:
Maybe cynical, but what happened to the only lady in BTCC this year?
Jade Edwards ran in the same team that had race wins, but she didn't get any of them!
She scored a point, which is one point more than nine other drivers managed.Jade Edwards ran in the same team that had race wins, but she didn't get any of them!
She wasn't the only female drive, Jessica Hawkins stepped in to drive Andy Neate's car at one event.
Just because she's in the same team as race winners, her budget may mean she doesn't have the same access to everything - upgraded parts, existing parts changed at longer intervals, less access to data analysis, coaching, simulator access etc.,
The subtext in so many posts seems to be - women aren't as good as men at driving racing cars, never have been , never will be , never can be and it's all so unfair they even get an opportunity to race , let alone some get publicity for doing so . Are we really so insecure ? I don't care if the best woman racer may not turn out to be as fast as the best male racer - in common with most of the field then. I do know I've seen some very fine women drivers in the sport , from Powell and Chadwick to Mouton and Moss Carlsson and from Makela to Ehrbacher . .
For me as in plenty of threads like this, there is a lot of waffle and some clear misunderstanding.
I would not rank drag racers up there with people like Mouton, what Michele did at Audi and later to a lesser extent at Peugeot remains unmatched in terms of racing as an equal against men.
Drag racing does clearly take less skill to achieve, hence why 60 or even 70 year old men can still win doing it, it takes a lot of knowledge and ability to react and hold on, but it obviously does not take as much skill, I know that is controversial. Note I did not also say it is a fitness thing, it clearly is not in either case.
Michele did not achieve a huge amount before she was with Audi, but she was obviously a decent driver at Alpine and fiat, and she won rallies at a national level before she got the Audi drive, but that car was not easy to drive, yes it had an advantage initially, but some of the things she did later on in the Sport showed that not only was she quick, but tough, very aware of her position and also not afraid of a challenge, in fact relishing things like driving with no pace notes or on tough events.
I see no driver even close to that in the last 30 years, Some of achieved some success, notably Legge, who I think has fond her level after clearly not being suited to single seaters. Patrick should have stayed in CART, NASCAR was clearly a step too far for her. And there have really been no others. Some women have achieved minor success in bike racing, but in a very new series and were proven to be fairly hopeless at the top level when given many years on good bikes.
None even close to Michele, who remains by far the best female to ever compete at the top level of any motorsport that isnt drag racing!
I would not rank drag racers up there with people like Mouton, what Michele did at Audi and later to a lesser extent at Peugeot remains unmatched in terms of racing as an equal against men.
Drag racing does clearly take less skill to achieve, hence why 60 or even 70 year old men can still win doing it, it takes a lot of knowledge and ability to react and hold on, but it obviously does not take as much skill, I know that is controversial. Note I did not also say it is a fitness thing, it clearly is not in either case.
Michele did not achieve a huge amount before she was with Audi, but she was obviously a decent driver at Alpine and fiat, and she won rallies at a national level before she got the Audi drive, but that car was not easy to drive, yes it had an advantage initially, but some of the things she did later on in the Sport showed that not only was she quick, but tough, very aware of her position and also not afraid of a challenge, in fact relishing things like driving with no pace notes or on tough events.
I see no driver even close to that in the last 30 years, Some of achieved some success, notably Legge, who I think has fond her level after clearly not being suited to single seaters. Patrick should have stayed in CART, NASCAR was clearly a step too far for her. And there have really been no others. Some women have achieved minor success in bike racing, but in a very new series and were proven to be fairly hopeless at the top level when given many years on good bikes.
None even close to Michele, who remains by far the best female to ever compete at the top level of any motorsport that isnt drag racing!
LukeBrown66 said:
....Patrick should have stayed in CART, NASCAR was clearly a step too far for her. ...
I imagine it was a lot more lucrative being a mid-pack NASCAR driver than running somewhat nearer the front in single seaters.I once attended a NASCAR race, there were far more women there by a huge margin than at any motor race I have ever been to in Europe, and the majority were wearing Danica t-shirts/jackets/hats/etc.
That is fair enough, she garnered huge support, but selling merch is maybe all she was there for eventually, it has to also include results as do grandee signings like Messi and Ronaldo in soccer, they sell millions of shirts, but also deliver in the sport, she never did in NASCAR for whatever reason.
I couldn't care less about how many women were there, I doubt any of them were there without male friends, if they went on their own, fair enough, but I would suggest most of it was families managing to find a reason enough to go, and that reason was Danica, for bloke as well as women. Initially that was great, but after a while it became a farce, and she knew it fair enough to her.
I couldn't care less about how many women were there, I doubt any of them were there without male friends, if they went on their own, fair enough, but I would suggest most of it was families managing to find a reason enough to go, and that reason was Danica, for bloke as well as women. Initially that was great, but after a while it became a farce, and she knew it fair enough to her.
Announced today, Jenner Racing.
Olympic star, ex-driver and reality TV personality Caitlyn Jenner will head the Jenner Racing team in 2022.
https://wseries.com/w-hub/caitlyn-jenner-going-for...
Olympic star, ex-driver and reality TV personality Caitlyn Jenner will head the Jenner Racing team in 2022.
https://wseries.com/w-hub/caitlyn-jenner-going-for...
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