Discussion
thegreenhell said:
Is there any evidence for this, though? It's been mentioned a few times in this thread, but if it's true then where are all the heavily-sponsored female drivers? I would have thought the opposite is true in reality, hence another reason why a W Series has to exist to support female drivers.
If we accept that a female has the same driving potential as a male (and I think we should), then surely with this supposed easy access to sponsorship we should be seeing well-funded women rising through the ranks, just as we see well-funded males doing so?
There just isn't enough women in the sport yet. There is some good women but theres currently still better men so they are getting the sponsorship. Not because they are men though. Once you see more families ploughing tens of thousands into their 4 year old girls karting careers there will be some that start matching top level men.If we accept that a female has the same driving potential as a male (and I think we should), then surely with this supposed easy access to sponsorship we should be seeing well-funded women rising through the ranks, just as we see well-funded males doing so?
Male and female exactly the same skills and family and the female would probably get the sponsorship. Just look at men that are of equal talent as jamie Chadwick (so bottom level F3?) And compare the sponsorship over the next year or 2.
When Alice came into F3 Cup in 2013, she was certainly the best prepared having dropped from GP3 the previous year and Formula Renault UK before that. She had a budget that most club racers would be envious of. At the start of the season she was faster than everyone, but as if often the case the others rise to the challenge and by the end of the season she had been caught and passed on pace - although there was a slight car disadvantage compared to some.
She did score a point in GP3 after finishing 10th, which was promoted to 8th after two people ahead of her were hit with a time penalty. That is an infinite % more than me and most of people reading this thread.
She entered the car into a British F3 race at Silverstone, qualified 16/19 but trailed in last. Her car was a generation older than the rest of the grid, as well as having an engine (Euroformula Open Piedrafieta Toyota) which was less powerful and torquey than the others, her car in F306 trim did not generate the same levels of downforce as the F308-11 era cars most probably with the latest aero pack or the F312 cars, so its unfair to compare race performance.
She is one of a number of people who are too good for regular normal club level racing, but not quite good enough to make it beyond where she did in the professional ranks - whether that is down to talent, budget, being in the right car or right team or near the right backer at the right time or whatever I suspect only she will know. She had a bit of bad luck in W Series but showed that despite several years without a regular drive showed that her previous experience in single seaters counted more than more recent drives in tin-tops, and the season finale race win was deserved.
For a couple of years F3 Cup saw a couple of true professional drivers join for a one off race as it satisfied the requirements to race in the Macau GP for F3 cars, so Antonio Felix da Costa, Carlos Sainz Jnr and Esteban Ocon joined the series. They showed the real gulf between quick amateurs and professionals. da Costa almost made it to F1 - had a couple of driver tests but circumstances didn't work out, but Sainz and Ocon did make it.
She did score a point in GP3 after finishing 10th, which was promoted to 8th after two people ahead of her were hit with a time penalty. That is an infinite % more than me and most of people reading this thread.
She entered the car into a British F3 race at Silverstone, qualified 16/19 but trailed in last. Her car was a generation older than the rest of the grid, as well as having an engine (Euroformula Open Piedrafieta Toyota) which was less powerful and torquey than the others, her car in F306 trim did not generate the same levels of downforce as the F308-11 era cars most probably with the latest aero pack or the F312 cars, so its unfair to compare race performance.
She is one of a number of people who are too good for regular normal club level racing, but not quite good enough to make it beyond where she did in the professional ranks - whether that is down to talent, budget, being in the right car or right team or near the right backer at the right time or whatever I suspect only she will know. She had a bit of bad luck in W Series but showed that despite several years without a regular drive showed that her previous experience in single seaters counted more than more recent drives in tin-tops, and the season finale race win was deserved.
For a couple of years F3 Cup saw a couple of true professional drivers join for a one off race as it satisfied the requirements to race in the Macau GP for F3 cars, so Antonio Felix da Costa, Carlos Sainz Jnr and Esteban Ocon joined the series. They showed the real gulf between quick amateurs and professionals. da Costa almost made it to F1 - had a couple of driver tests but circumstances didn't work out, but Sainz and Ocon did make it.
StevieBee said:
Chadwick has won two British GT Championship races, one British F3 race (regular top five qualifier as well), and won six rounds of the MRF Championship.
In British F3 JC qualified 12th, 4th, 15th, 6th, 15th, 11th, 10th. To be more accurate you should have said that she REGULARLY qualified 10th or lower?It's easy to cherry pick results
And by results started races 2 & 3 in 9, 9 / 3, 9 / 5, 7 / 13, 9 / 7, 14 / 4, 12 / 9, 3
Currently Race 2 is a total reverse grid of the finishing order of race 1, with last finisher on pole, to first finisher at the back, then the DNF's from race1 in reverse order - provided their FL in race 1 was within 103% of the overall FL. Those drivers who didn't get their individual FL within the allotted window are demoted to the rear of the grid, ahead of the non-finishers in order of their FL. <confused yet?>
Race 3 is determined by the drivers fastest lap in race conditions, either from race 1 or race 2, and in the event of a tie, the driver who set their time first gets precedence.
Currently Race 2 is a total reverse grid of the finishing order of race 1, with last finisher on pole, to first finisher at the back, then the DNF's from race1 in reverse order - provided their FL in race 1 was within 103% of the overall FL. Those drivers who didn't get their individual FL within the allotted window are demoted to the rear of the grid, ahead of the non-finishers in order of their FL. <confused yet?>
Race 3 is determined by the drivers fastest lap in race conditions, either from race 1 or race 2, and in the event of a tie, the driver who set their time first gets precedence.
StevieBee said:
Chadwick has won two British GT Championship races, one British F3 race (regular top five qualifier as well), and won six rounds of the MRF Championship.
I would have thought that previous experience at this level would preclude a driver from the W-Series? I thought the whole point is give women a leg up into the sport? A seat taken is then one not open for drivers who haven't been given a chance elsewhere. Or is it more like a showcase series to build public interest in women in motorsport?thegreenhell said:
If we accept that a female has the same driving potential as a male (and I think we should), then surely with this supposed easy access to sponsorship we should be seeing well-funded women rising through the ranks, just as we see well-funded males doing so?
In which case why exactly do we need a "W-Series" that obviously excludes males?If people are intent on equality, why can't they just race in a non-discriminating series?
df76 said:
I’m pretty sure that she was the “amateur” part of the pairing and suspect quite a bit slower than Jonny Adam was.
She wasn't that much slower really.TSL Timing shows GT3 Am and GT3 Pro qualifying on separate pages, and yes she was 2-3 seconds per lap slower than her co-driver - probably 0.6 seconds per mile. Her relative position in GT3 Am qualifying was pretty similar to where Jonny lined up in GT3 Pro qualifying and were very consistent over the season.
It wasn't as if Jonny was sticking it on pole in his class and Flick was coming bottom 3 each time, both were up at the sharp end of their classes all season.
andrewcliffe said:
df76 said:
I’m pretty sure that she was the “amateur” part of the pairing and suspect quite a bit slower than Jonny Adam was.
She wasn't that much slower really.TSL Timing shows GT3 Am and GT3 Pro qualifying on separate pages, and yes she was 2-3 seconds per lap slower than her co-driver - probably 0.6 seconds per mile. Her relative position in GT3 Am qualifying was pretty similar to where Jonny lined up in GT3 Pro qualifying and were very consistent over the season.
It wasn't as if Jonny was sticking it on pole in his class and Flick was coming bottom 3 each time, both were up at the sharp end of their classes all season.
It depends what the sponsors are after in return for their money - there are quite a lot of gentleman / gentlewoman drivers in the Am section of British GT and GT Cup and are able to cultivate sponsors within their own sphere of life.
They're unlikely to get the sponsors looking for a future hotshot thats likely to rise through the ranks, but they're probably not looking for that sort of sponsor either.
She's also targeting endurance events - 1hr, 3hr, 12hr, 24hr races where the last second of speed is less important than consistancy and a level head.
They're unlikely to get the sponsors looking for a future hotshot thats likely to rise through the ranks, but they're probably not looking for that sort of sponsor either.
She's also targeting endurance events - 1hr, 3hr, 12hr, 24hr races where the last second of speed is less important than consistancy and a level head.
Mr_Thyroid said:
slipstream 1985 said:
To me all this series has done is devalue Jamie Chadwicks reputation.
I've a bit of sympathy with this view. I was a bit disappointed with some of her race performances - in fact, one could be critical of them all.Race 1 - she was on pole by 1.7 s but won the race by only 1.3.
Race 2 - pole again but finished 2nd over 8 s behind the winner.
Race 3 - just hung on to win by 0.5 s.
Race 4 - 2nd on the grid but never challenged Garcia and finished 3rd.
Race 5 - 3rd on the grid but never looked like challenging for the win, finished 8 s back and 3 behind second.
Finale - after a promising start looked nervy and all at sea on a track she's supposed to know well.
But when you think about it there is a lot of pressure being the favourite in this competition, essentially representing your entire gender, dealing with negative press from both feminists and anti-feminists and knowing that the hounds are ready to jump on the smallest mistake (I'm aware of the irony that I'm criticising her for not winning well enough). So I suppose, while she didn't dominate to the extent I expected (and her first quali performance suggested), when you think about the emotions of it, it's kind of understandable.
If the series is solely to get more girls at a grass root level interested then great it will do that but as posted before girls get given dolls at 4 and boys toy cars naturally there is going to be a larger number of boys into motorsports than girls which results in the basics of probability a better male driver than female.
The way I saw the series being portrayed, was that the female drivers are unfairly discriminated against in the male orientated classes and needed a 1 gender series to even their publicity etc.
Personally I never saw the gender at all just the results in varies series, and infact in this current climate a female driver with equal talent to a male would have massive marketing potential.
Just seen the latest copy of Autosport magazine, which is a ‘Women in Motorsport’ Special.
It covers this topic in detail, plus other aspects, and makes interesting reading.
Clearly the sport wants/needs more women involved, at every level.
W Series is only one part of that, but it’s certainly having an important influence on the debate. Personally, I hope it succeeds.
It covers this topic in detail, plus other aspects, and makes interesting reading.
Clearly the sport wants/needs more women involved, at every level.
W Series is only one part of that, but it’s certainly having an important influence on the debate. Personally, I hope it succeeds.
The new intake, Abbie Eaton from the Grand Tour is on there.
https://www.crash.net/w-series/news/928894/1/legge...
But what the hell is Katherine Legge doing on there, that's hardly promoting new talent is it? If you don't know her she's 39 and already raced in Indycar, ChampCar, DTM, Formula E, Sportscars, Daytona 24 hrs, Indy 500 and even NASCAR.
https://www.crash.net/w-series/news/928894/1/legge...
But what the hell is Katherine Legge doing on there, that's hardly promoting new talent is it? If you don't know her she's 39 and already raced in Indycar, ChampCar, DTM, Formula E, Sportscars, Daytona 24 hrs, Indy 500 and even NASCAR.
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