Massive F3 Crash Parabolica

Massive F3 Crash Parabolica

Author
Discussion

768

4,929 posts

41 months

Monday 9th September
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Eric Mc said:
If an F1 car (or any other winged car) was run upside down along the ground, would it lift off (with or without a conveyor belt)?
Yes... if it's tyres had something to grip to and not from an upside down standing start. At least until the engine went pop because the fluids were in the wrong place.

Connectors

178 posts

34 months

Monday 9th September
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Petrolsniffed said:
It feels to me that they should just punish those who go outside the track with time fines. Do it too many times and you are disqualified. Far safer and sensible deterrent
Can anyone explain why this doesn't happen? The tech is there, MSV use it at their circuits. First offence = warning, second offence = drive through, third offence = stop go. They'd soon stop abusing track limits, and while they're at it, make it an offence as soon as one wheel is completely over the white line, all this four wheels off the circuit before they take any action is nonsense.

Thundersports

381 posts

90 months

Monday 9th September
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Marcel Albers lost his life at Thruxton when his F3 car was launched by another car. The accident is very similar.

mad4amanda

2,266 posts

109 months

Tuesday 10th September
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Connectors said:
Petrolsniffed said:
It feels to me that they should just punish those who go outside the track with time fines. Do it too many times and you are disqualified. Far safer and sensible deterrent
Can anyone explain why this doesn't happen? The tech is there, MSV use it at their circuits. First offence = warning, second offence = drive through, third offence = stop go. They'd soon stop abusing track limits, and while they're at it, make it an offence as soon as one wheel is completely over the white line, all this four wheels off the circuit before they take any action is nonsense.
I have quite a bit of experience with the MSV system as I ran it for 4 years at Brands the FIA certainly know all about it as a technical delegate came and spent the weekend with me and saw what we did he was amazed as the cameras allowed us to operate to an accuracy of around 12mm they were working on RF technology but were at 50 cm accuracy back then.
Not sure where they went from there as II am no longer doing it for the last 3 years although I did go to Donington to operate the new system there for the first BTCC they used it on very different environment but still a great system.
Just to clarify its 2 infringements with photo evidence before a black and white warning then as you said . And for mSA ruling its any wheel off for FIA all 4 wheels off which can cause issues still .
Sausage kerbs are inherently unsafe in my view and should never be part of any circuit but if the FIA inspectors allow them then the FIA should deal with the aftermath every track is inspected prior to any F1 event and any required changes agreed and scheduled with the track operator.
When track limits penalties came in I was the most unpopular guy but we tried to use a fair approach to the problem viewing build up to as well as the actual offence and would only act if we were totally convinced that advantage had been sought.
It didn't stop knee jerk reaction writing letters to Autosport and getting commentators to ridicule the system ( the same ones who funnily enough now see it as a good thing!) It was just managing the change , you used to do this now you can't and if you do there will be penalties

The best ones were when the driver flatly denied any infringements until presented with in the worst case 20 photos of their car clearly off the track when they became very quiet and usually said "I didn't know you could see this so clearly".

ettore

2,575 posts

197 months

Tuesday 10th September
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Thundersports said:
Marcel Albers lost his life at Thruxton when his F3 car was launched by another car. The accident is very similar.
It is indeed - I was there that day (dodging the debris) - still very clear in the mind..

coppice

5,486 posts

89 months

Tuesday 10th September
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Petrolsniffed said:
fking hell pal. You want to knee jerk off one comment and then ask me to make recommendations for every aspect of the sport?

So for the record, you do not believe there is any negligence in the deployment in this situation? You know, the incident a thread was started over? Once we nail this maybe we can share email and discuss every other aspect of the sport? Perhaps you could take me to dinner to debate it? Or would you want clarification of my nationality first?
Simple answer - I don't know if there was negligence or not. I suspect not, as such kerbs are in wide usage. But I don't see any useful purpose in rushing to judgment . Dinner ? Nice thought but perhaps not - people might jump to conclusions .

Eric Mc

107,447 posts

210 months

Tuesday 10th September
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768 said:
Yes... if it's tyres had something to grip to and not from an upside down standing start. At least until the engine went pop because the fluids were in the wrong place.
Is that based on actual data or just an assumption?

768

4,929 posts

41 months

Wednesday 11th September
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Mostly a dubious knowledge of physics and hazy memories of the explanations of wiser people for whom this is a well understood problem. I don't think anyone's got data on it because I don't think anyone's done it, if that counts as an assumption then fair enough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFZ9loSAIPA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hqw0r0kYl0M

Eric Mc

107,447 posts

210 months

Wednesday 11th September
quotequote all
An aeroplane flies because the lift generated by the wings exerts an upward force greater than the weight of the aeroplane.

An upside down racing car would fly if the lift force generated by the wings exceeded the weight of the car.

I actually think that most racing cars fly, not when their wings start producing lift instead of downforce, but most often when their flat undersides are presented to the airflow and they actually get "pushed" up rather than "sucked" up. A classic example of that happening would be accidents such as the Mercedes flips at Le Mans back in 1999.