No motorsport in the UK until July

No motorsport in the UK until July

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Discussion

Dynion Araf Uchaf

2,471 posts

177 months

Monday 30th March
quotequote all
MG CHRIS said:
This but only club racing cant see any big meets happening like btcc no way will they allow any big gatherings to happen.
I'd say the opposite.

Professional racers and teams will need to make a living so they will be given first dibs. Maybe behind closed doors.
Club racers are the very end. Bearing in mind you've got bikes, cars and rallying using circuits all year round, and starting a season in Sept gives a max 16 weeks, compared to 30-32 normally means there are some significant restrictions coming for a club season. I see maybe 6 BTCC weekends along side 6 BSB weekends and 6 GT weekends, 4 truck meets

So that leaves maybe 10 weekends left for everything else. I suspect 3-4 meetings per club max. You have to factor in a couple of things, firstly, how many competitors will there be left ( i.e. still have job), will these meetings be over subscribed? but also clubmen still need time to repair cars between races so I don't really see more than 1 meeting per championship per month.

You also have to balance how long into the 'off' season the 2020 season will go. You can of course get another 10 weekend by continuing to race until March, but that would probably decimate the 2021 season as there is no break and time for people to save up. Also cancellation of events due to poor weather is much more likely and you'd have to be a brave club to book a race meeting in January off the back of COVID 19.

Track days will be maxed out too, and then that's before you factor in other uses for the circuits like auto jumbles, pop concerts and jamborees

LucyP

344 posts

13 months

Monday 30th March
quotequote all
I don't think you understand how circuits work. The priority will be for the circuits to make money, having been closed for so long. They are not interested in drivers and teams, they are interested in themselves.

Bookings were made last year for this year and contracts entered into, so once the UK is once again open for business, if on X date in October there was a small club meeting and the circuit wants to move it to another weekend, because say BTCC or BSB wants that weekend, then it will depend on negotiations with the small club.

Circuits are only used for concerts when there is also a motor race on.

Most circuits make money from track days and driving experience days and the circuit hire fees. Most of the racing weekends are small club meetings.


Drumroll

2,110 posts

74 months

Monday 30th March
quotequote all
I have said in other threads it is not just about the competitors it is also about all the other people that make the meetings happen. And whilst you make look at circuit racing you have to look at all Motorsports. All of whom rely marshals etc to make them run.

As an example a Paramedic friend of ours who covers several Motorsport events in a year, has just sent her kids off to live with relatives so her and her husband (also a Paramedic) can do their jobs "safely" When this is over do you all really think she is going to spend what free weekend she has covering events?

LucyP

344 posts

13 months

Monday 30th March
quotequote all
That's the least of the worries. I know loads of officials who cannot wait to get back to motor sport weekends. People are sick of being under lock down already and cannot wait to get back to normality.


Nampahc Niloc

204 posts

32 months

Monday 30th March
quotequote all
LucyP said:
That's the least of the worries. I know loads of officials who cannot wait to get back to motor sport weekends. People are sick of being under lock down already and cannot wait to get back to normality.
Most officials maybe. But medical staff maybe not so. Hopefully they will consider it a relief, but they might want to make up for some lost time with families. Saying that, the lock down won’t be lifted for sometime after the pressure has eased off in the hospitals so maybe they will be keen to get back to it.

Drumroll

2,110 posts

74 months

Monday 30th March
quotequote all
LucyP said:
That's the least of the worries. I know loads of officials who cannot wait to get back to motor sport weekends. People are sick of being under lock down already and cannot wait to get back to normality.
No it isn't, if you can't get enough medics then the events can't run. Whilst I agree a lot of us can't wait to get back, there are lot who face a very uncertain future. Spending money on a hobby when they may be struggling to pay their mortgage, will be difficult to justify.

Dynion Araf Uchaf

2,471 posts

177 months

Monday 30th March
quotequote all
LucyP said:
I don't think you understand how circuits work. The priority will be for the circuits to make money, having been closed for so long. They are not interested in drivers and teams, they are interested in themselves.

Bookings were made last year for this year and contracts entered into, so once the UK is once again open for business, if on X date in October there was a small club meeting and the circuit wants to move it to another weekend, because say BTCC or BSB wants that weekend, then it will depend on negotiations with the small club.

Circuits are only used for concerts when there is also a motor race on.

Most circuits make money from track days and driving experience days and the circuit hire fees. Most of the racing weekends are small club meetings.
I know how circuits work!
BTCC the circuits pay to hold, but get gate receipt. 20000 people at £20 a time, raises more cash than hiring out to a motor club.
The contracts are immensely one sided. If the circuit wants to cancel an event it will. There will be little a club can do about it,nor will they want to take on Palmer!
Download festival at Donington does not coincide with a race.
They will however need medical staff and that might be the kicker for this year.

LucyP

344 posts

13 months

Monday 30th March
quotequote all
By the time the racing re-starts the crisis will be over, that's the point.

Medical staff cover motor sport because they enjoy it, not because of the money. It's not like football, it is not well paid, however it is not hard work, and it is a different kind of work, and they love the atmosphere, and the socialising. It is very different from working in the NHS.

Drumroll

2,110 posts

74 months

Monday 30th March
quotequote all
LucyP said:
By the time the racing re-starts the crisis will be over, that's the point.

Medical staff cover motor sport because they enjoy it, not because of the money. It's not like football, it is not well paid, however it is not hard work, and it is a different kind of work, and they love the atmosphere, and the socialising. It is very different from working in the NHS.
And you know this because?

LucyP

344 posts

13 months

Monday 30th March
quotequote all
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
I know how circuits work!
BTCC the circuits pay to hold, but get gate receipt. 20000 people at £20 a time, raises more cash than hiring out to a motor club.
The contracts are immensely one sided. If the circuit wants to cancel an event it will. There will be little a club can do about it,nor will they want to take on Palmer!
Download festival at Donington does not coincide with a race.
They will however need medical staff and that might be the kicker for this year.
Factor in how much they have to pay to hold, and the cost of putting the event on, and will there really be big crowds this year, when people are short of money and it is later in the year than normal, when the weather is not as good. Suddenly a club meeting where they pay to hire the circuit and you know how much money you are going to earn is quite attractive.

If a club doesn't want to sue for breach of contract, then I understand that, but they won't re-book for next year if the circuit treats them like dirt.

Drumroll

2,110 posts

74 months

Monday 30th March
quotequote all
LucyP said:
Factor in how much they have to pay to hold, and the cost of putting the event on, and will there really be big crowds this year, when people are short of money and it is later in the year than normal, when the weather is not as good. Suddenly a club meeting where they pay to hire the circuit and you know how much money you are going to earn is quite attractive.

If a club doesn't want to sue for breach of contract, then I understand that, but they won't re-book for next year if the circuit treats them like dirt.
Sorry but that comment shows how little you know about how racing is organised in the UK.

Most clubs will have no alternative but to book with the circuits again as there are very few alternatives. MSV have 5 circuits, BARC have 3, doesn't really lead many other places to go, does it?

You recognise when it suits you that people will be short of money, don't forget that will include some of the officials you reckon are ready to go.

LucyP

344 posts

13 months

Tuesday 31st March
quotequote all
There are far more than 8 circuits in the UK and as for the Barc ones, BTCC only goes to 2 of them once each, and BSB only goes to 1 of them, once.

I assure you that circuits will not treat clubs like dirt and will seek to agree with them if dates have to be moved. Circuits need clubs and grass-roots motor sport. If you think that they are not important, have a look at how and why the MSA became MSUK and the changes that they have made.

andy97

3,849 posts

176 months

Tuesday 31st March
quotequote all
LucyP, I spent 6 years on the committee of a national racing club so think I have a vaguely reasonable idea how national racing works in the UK.
You are right, clubs do have contracts with circuits but until the clubs pay in full, usually 6 weeks before a given race date they are considered provisional. And everything revolves around the date of the British GP and MotoGP; move them and there is a knock on effect everywhere else. Next most important are BTCC and BSB and once the British GP date is settled then Alan Gow and Jonathon Palmer will have their pick and so on.
Circuits will not want to destroy their relationships with the clubs but clubs will be asked to move. Yes, it’s a negotiation, of sorts, and they will try to offer sweeteners like better dates next season etc but the circuits hold the power.
Of course, once we are back to some sort of normality the circuits will want to generate business from their race/rally/ track day company customers as much as possible but if the FIA want to hold a British GP at Silverstone on, say, 27 Sept then BTCC will have to move etc etc.

Drumroll

2,110 posts

74 months

Tuesday 31st March
quotequote all
LucyP said:
There are far more than 8 circuits in the UK and as for the Barc ones, BTCC only goes to 2 of them once each, and BSB only goes to 1 of them, once.

I assure you that circuits will not treat clubs like dirt and will seek to agree with them if dates have to be moved. Circuits need clubs and grass-roots motor sport. If you think that they are not important, have a look at how and why the MSA became MSUK and the changes that they have made.
So in your first comment you talk about there being far more than 8 circuits in the UK. Please name me them all, because as far as MSUK race licenced tracks on mainland UK I can only think of 5.

What relevance is the number of times BTCC and BSB visit a BARC circuit

It would be nice if you actually answered my previous questions as well.


coppice

5,969 posts

98 months

Tuesday 31st March
quotequote all
More than five - roughly from N- S

Knockhill
Croft
Cadwell
Oulton
Donington
Trac Mon
Mallory
Silverstone
Snetterton
Brands
Thruxton
Castle Combe

(plus Lydden and Pembrey?)

andrewcliffe

550 posts

178 months

Tuesday 31st March
quotequote all
Drumroll said:
So in your first comment you talk about there being far more than 8 circuits in the UK. Please name me them all, because as far as MSUK race licenced tracks on mainland UK I can only think of 5.
The following are licensed for competition by Motorsport UK for circuit racing.

Anglesey*
Brands Hatch
Cadwell Park
Castle Combe
Croft
Donington Park
Goodwood
Knockhill
Lydden Hill
Mallory Park
Oulton Park
Pembrey
Silverstone
Snetterton
Thruxton

  • Anglesey is connected by a bridge to mainland UK, so have included it.
Plus Kirkistown and Bishopscourt in Northern Ireland.

Drumroll

2,110 posts

74 months

Tuesday 31st March
quotequote all
coppice said:
More than five - roughly from N- S

Knockhill
Croft
Cadwell
Oulton
Donington
Trac Mon
Mallory
Silverstone
Snetterton
Brands
Thruxton
Castle Combe

(plus Lydden and Pembrey?)
Sorry I ment those not run by either BARC or MSV .

MG CHRIS

6,980 posts

121 months

Tuesday 31st March
quotequote all
The reason I said about no big meets is all down to the government if they restrict gatherings on crowds in places then big meets will not happen or will do behind closed doors. Btcc still recon they have full 10 rounds I think they are in dream land not only that how many teams will be able to run how many teams will lose its sponsors. The likes of btcc/ brit gt/ bsb all takes large sums of money that will be restricted big time.

Personally can see msuk suspending competition for another 2 months till beginning of September. And track hold track days and experience days in the mean time too keep themselves going if they re open.

LucyP

344 posts

13 months

Tuesday 31st March
quotequote all
Drumroll - I can't answer how I know about officials, because then you will ask who I am, and I am not going to answer that, but confirmation of availability is already happening. There was an article in The Guardian recently about the GP, and the MD of Silverstone said that they need a minimum of 12 weeks to prepare for F1. The big question is whether they can start preparing in the next few weeks, so that they are ready for the original date. If it does not go ahead, it will not be because there is a lack of officials or medics, I assure you.

As to the cost of their hobby, it doesn't cost much. Just the fuel to get to the circuit. They can camp for free, and most do. They can take their own food, and the medics are paid - not a massive amount, but enough to cover the fuel. As for marshals, you do realise that there are always more marshals volunteering to do it than they have spaces for. Trackside viewing, free entry, free parking, centre access, pit walk, maybe paddock or pit lane access if that is where you are allocated. The type of thing that you cannot pay for or costs £thousands. Just look up who is allowed paddock access and a pit walk, and see what grade of ticket you need for that, and how much it costs. Look at the cost of general admission, parking, and a centre access pass.

As to other circuits and my points - thanks to the person who helpfully listed most of the licensed circuits in the UK. My point is this - most circuits have only club racing. Barc have a circuit that has only club racing. They have another circuit that only has 1 big meeting per year - BTCC. So 2/3rd's of Barc's circuits have exclusively, or almost exclusively club racing. One 2 circuits have any international meetings at all, and one of those only has one per year.

My points were - you cannot afford to treat clubs like dirt, because as I have said, for most circuits, most if not all of the time, the only racing is club level, and there are plenty of choices for clubs. If Oulton Park treat you poorly for example, then it's not too far to Anglesey.


covboy

2,343 posts

128 months

Tuesday 31st March
quotequote all
LucyP said:
medics are paid - not a massive amount, but enough to cover the fuel.
Believe me I know one circuit where the Medics (Doctors) are paid £130+ a day for their services -Thats a lot of fuel !