RE: Indianapolis F1: eye-witness report

RE: Indianapolis F1: eye-witness report

Tuesday 21st June 2005

Indianapolis F1: eye-witness report

'In the stands it felt as though they wanted to kill someone.'


What are these for, again?
What are these for, again?
Simon Rockman reports from the Indianapolis grandstand on the F1 farce

I was there, and it was bizarre.

The stands seem to fill in sections with a particular allegiance, the Columbians for Montoya and so on. I was with a crowd of Indians backing Narain Karthikeyan, so they weren’t sure what to make of their man being in the points, but this soon changed to near-riot. It was odd being in among such anger and it not feeling dangerous.

One huge difference between Indianapolis and any other circuit is scale. Everywhere else that F1 goes it’s the biggest event held at the circuit. Indianapolis is built for the 300,000 people that attend the Indianapolis 500 so there is no overcrowding for the 100,000 or so F1 fans. Some of the souvenir stands don’t even open for the small F1 race. This scale helped in diffusing the emotion. It would have been very different at Monza.

There was a chronic lack of information, I’d spoken to a friend at one of the teams around 9am and he’d said that they still didn’t have any tyres, but that he couldn’t see the race not happening.

I did think it a little strange that Bernie spent so much time on the grid talking to Minardi boss Paul Stoddart, and I said to my friend that I was pleased we moved from turn 13 to the start-finish straight because I didn’t feel safe at the turn, but these things only come into focus with hindsight.

I’d seen the story on the BBC Web site saying that the race was going ahead, and the atmosphere was great. There was a feeling that F1, was, at last, coming to America.

For a lot of people I spoke to before the race it was their first experience of F1. I guess it will be their last.

The mailman in front of me had driven 1,000 miles from Texas. We chatted about how it was unusual for a Black American to be interested in F1. The Indians next to me had flown from North Carolina. If F1 had a toehold it was that motorsport in the US is so redneck  the ethnic minorities avoid it.

Of course that toehold is gone. If F1 cars can’t even do 73 laps with one fast turn when Indy cars to hundreds with four it makes F1 look pretty feeble. Perhaps I would have been better advised not to have used the jibe about roundy-roundy racing being “a girls sport”.

Mass hysteria is an odd thing. The unison of 100,000 people stamping and shouting “Bullshit” was almost carnival. Those that watched on TV and deplore the throwing of the pint sized Foster cans should try to appreciate the fervor that I thought was going to lead to a track invasion.

In the stands it felt as though they wanted to kill someone.

In the pits it was as though someone had died.

With nothing to do expect half pack-up my friend got me into the paddock. Where teams usually crowd around flat screens showing the race and telemetry information there were packing cases being filled. The photographers were stalking Bernie and not the drivers. A crowd emerged from an hospitality suite to shout at F1’s Davros and he fixed each one of them with a stare.

The Ferrari team tried hard at the podium, but their cheers were drowned by the crowd’s jeers.

Rumours started flying around the pit of how dangerous it was to leave. Apparently a cameraman had been attacked. There were a thousand angry people at the administration building. The BAR team changed out of uniform just in case.  Drivers were given police motorcycle escorts as they left.

They say that in war there are no winners, the same was true at Indianapolis. But perhaps the most worrying thing for F1 in the US was the non-ironic comment from a colleague in the office on Monday morning when I said I’d been to the race: “what race?”.

Author
Discussion

kingb

Original Poster:

1,151 posts

226 months

Tuesday 21st June 2005
quotequote all
i know it made for a dull race but i have to say that i think they made the right decision.

michelin have been the dominant tyre this season and bridgestone have struggled. however now we are at a circuit at which michelin cant compete and they wanted the race to be canceled. i understand that the tyre were blowing up but it simply means the guys on michelins can are limited by the tyres and cant drive as fast. If they detuned there engines as they can and then raced they wouldnt have gone as fast but they would have finished they would have put on the show that apparently they all wanted and someof them would have got points.

This is a sport and just because one set of equpment isnt good enough for a track is an unacceptable reason to cancel the GP. Bridgestone have had tyre explode. it happened to the feraris but they dont try to cancel a race. If the race was canceled it would have been totaly unfair on the bridgestone runners.

A difficult decision since any decision would be controversial but i think correct.

Brian_S

2 posts

229 months

Tuesday 21st June 2005
quotequote all
Absolutely, Bridgestone and their teams had done no wrong and were right to demand that they race on the track they have spent so long testing for.

Clearly Michelin have not extensively tested this tyre construction at Indy, yet chose to 'wing' it and bring this as the only tyre. What happened to also bringing the absolute reliability tyre like they're supposed to?

Reducing the ultimate speed of the Michelin runners seems to have been the most sensible conclusion. However, a chance to turn this round on Ferrari again was probably to tempting for the likes of Ron Dennis! Would it have been the same if the situation was the other way round? Absolutely not, people would have just assumed that Bridgestone had been stupid. Mob rule is an ugly thing.

dr jonboyg

2,561 posts

239 months

Tuesday 21st June 2005
quotequote all
We were there too. My first race since Monaco 2000, and my Fiancee's first race ever. We left after 20 laps, disgusted and thorougly pissed off.

I didn't shell out a few hundred dollars to watch a Bridgestone test session, and frankly at one point suggested to a mob of Essex wideboys behind me that they get together and storm the pits. I'm still waiting to see if any of the parties involved are going to offer recompense to the 120 000 suckers who present to watch F1 commit sepuku.

If there's a light at the end of this tunnel, it's that the impending implosion of top flight open wheel racing that will probably follow will leave the door open for a resurgence of sportscar racing.

vetteheadracer

8,271 posts

253 months

Tuesday 21st June 2005
quotequote all
Might seem simple why didn't the FIA introduce a chicane at turn 13 which was "optional" i.e. you didn't get penalised for missing it, that way Bridgestone runners ignore it and Michelin runs don't.

mrloudly

2,815 posts

235 months

Tuesday 21st June 2005
quotequote all
"In the stands it felt as though they wanted to kill someone."



How unusual for the Americans

RickH

1,592 posts

248 months

Tuesday 21st June 2005
quotequote all
I was under the impression that Michelin weren't allowed to test at the non-European circuits as they're a European brand. Bridgestone got around it through their involvement with another manufacturer (Firestone?). And if one of the teams were basedin a non-European location then they could test there based on the fact that it would be a local circuit and they were the designated suppliers for that team.

Correct me if I'm wrong though.

Rick

SI-PEN

1,009 posts

237 months

Tuesday 21st June 2005
quotequote all
It was and still is a very difficult situation where difficult dicisions had to be made not only for safety but also for commercial reasons.

Everybody concerned had a stand to make, beit on grounds of safety or business. It is a real shame that a compromise could not be agreed but understand that this is a big win or big lose sport of success and /or failure.

All concerned made decisions to best suit themselves and unfortunatley not me/us as supporters of the sport.

F1 is a great sport because of the glamore, money, speed, thrill factors, and that is what it is all about. Us blokes love our fast cars and all wish we had this life style, this is all driven by money and desire to be the best and have the best.

A tyre was deemed unsafe and could not race, leaving others to maximise from ones misfortune. It's life, live with it, learn from it and unfortunately accept it (from time to time)!!!! It business and thats exactly what happen on Sunday, individuals making the best dicision to suit themselves.....NOT THE SPORT!

errek72

943 posts

246 months

Tuesday 21st June 2005
quotequote all
You'll have to admid it's a classic.
An example of how business intrest and a fetish for rules can effectively kill a sport in one fell swoop.

Imagine Emanuel Fangio, Tazio Nuvolari,Jacky Brabham, Gilles Villeneuve, Stirling Moss not driving because 'the tyres might explode'. Hah! Their entire cars could explode at any given time!

I would have loved for Schumacher having bowled off himself and Barichello into the grass, leaving Jordan to win.
And I'm a Ferrari-fan, shows you how much sympathy F1 invokes today.

stace3610

23 posts

235 months

Tuesday 21st June 2005
quotequote all
F1 is no longer a sport, it's a marketing procession. When was the last time that there was a really good battle for the lead? 1982? The sooner there is a less regulated, more driver-centric, more exciting race series to challenge for the title "Formula 1" the better.

Stace.

Neil Benson

51 posts

282 months

Tuesday 21st June 2005
quotequote all
vetteheadracer said:
Might seem simple why didn't the FIA introduce a chicane at turn 13 which was "optional" i.e. you didn't get penalised for missing it, that way Bridgestone runners ignore it and Michelin runs don't.


Imagine Birdgestone runners at 14k revs in 5th gear, getting on for 160mph, exiting turn 13 when Michelin runners emerge from the turn-13 bypass chicane at 90mph. (Look at what happened to the Ferraris when Schumacher emerged from the pits -- you'd get that kind of incident a couple of times every lap, and eventually someone's in the wall.)

This is the same reason the Michelin runners couldn't just go slow round turn 13 -- the speed differential massively increases the chances of an accident.

anonymous-user

54 months

Tuesday 21st June 2005
quotequote all
SI-PEN said:

F1 is a great sport because of the glamore, money, speed, thrill factors, and that is what it is all about.


hahaha thats almost funny. glamour and money dont make sport they make a marketing spectacle. watch some wsb, motogp, lemans, IOM TT, paris dakar, caterham superlights, anything but F1 for 'great sport'.

johnny88

1,097 posts

229 months

Tuesday 21st June 2005
quotequote all
There are three parties to blame here:

1) Michelin for not bringing the extra tyres they needed.

2) The FIA for being so tight with the rules and not allowing any leighway to allow for the circumstances.

3) Ferrari for vetoing every option and preventing the race from running properly

The Michelin teams are NOT to blame. None of us here would drive on the public road with tyres we knew could explode, let alone at 190mph on a racetrack.

If this was Champ Cars, IRL, Nascar, LM, ALMS or whatever then they would have found a solution becuase all of these events are for the fans. F1 is all about self-interest and thus the fans suffer.

ubergreg

261 posts

231 months

Tuesday 21st June 2005
quotequote all
I hope Michelin suffer for this. Yes, everyone could have changed the track to accommodate the tyre situation, but if they do it for Michelin, why not do it, for example, when Williams has a brake failure in qualifying and can't understand the cause? Where would one draw the line, in the interests of fairness? And anyway, changing turn 13 would be like dumping a chicane in the middle of Eau Rouge. Well, you get the idea.

The worst part is that this happened in the States. I like the idea of F1 going to America, so they can also see what an electrifying spectacle an F1 race can be, and it's a very lucrative market. They'll never get any credibility back. Not for years. Can't help but think that if NASCAR was up against a similar situation, they would have found a way to give the paying fans proper value for their money. Tyre manufacturer/governing body/teams would probably be sued into refunding ticket money, and I think they would deserve it.

GreenV8S

30,204 posts

284 months

Tuesday 21st June 2005
quotequote all
If you were in charge of Ferrari, and you had an opportunity to prevent every single other car from competing so that you had the track to yourself and nobody else had any opportunity to score any points at all, would you take it? Or would you relinquish your advantage and give the other driver's an opportunity to compete against you?

It comes down to what's best for the sport versus what's best for the team, and everything I've seen here suggests that the decisions made have all been selfish ones.

JenkinsComp

918 posts

247 months

Tuesday 21st June 2005
quotequote all
According to the ITV commentary on qualifying, there is a rule that enables teams to use a fresh tyre for the race (instead of keeping the same tyres used in qualifying) only if safety is severly compromised by doing so.
If this isn't a case where safety would be compromised, then what is?
Ralf Schumacher had a near identical crash to last year at the exact same corner, and it's only down to luck that he isn't once again recovering from broken bones. Therefore Michelin should have been allowed to use fresh tyres if all the teams agree.

It wasn't Ferraris fault that Michelin brought the "wrong" tyres but they certainly could have helped with letting Michelin use a tyre that was definately safe by not being the only team not to agree to that. They could've used fresh tyres also to make it fair, whats so difficult or wrong about that?

How short sighted pig headed and childish of Ferrari. So they gain a few points, and make their point, at the expense of the sport. Typical of that team which history has shown always gets its own way at the expense of a sporting contest. And very nearly at the expense of the drivers, who were rightly saved from danger by their team managers, obviously embarrassed by this ridiculous situation.

apn

302 posts

284 months

Tuesday 21st June 2005
quotequote all
If the situation were reversed and it was Ferrari and Bridgestone that had the problem would the other teams and Michelin have agreed?

I don't think so!

agent006

12,039 posts

264 months

Tuesday 21st June 2005
quotequote all
The only thing this proves is that Indianapolis isn't safe to run an F1 race on.

shoestring7

6,138 posts

246 months

Tuesday 21st June 2005
quotequote all
There's a lot of mis understanding about the tyre and track situation here.

The circuit organisers, IMS, put cuts into the surface to increase grip for the IRL car earlier this year. Firestone supplied tyres for the Indy 500, and IRL. Firestone are a part of the Bridgestone group, so their engineers knew what work had been done, and more cruicially, how it affected the tyre situation. So they were able to pick a construction and compound to suit.

It appears the first that Michelin knew about the changes were when they arrived at the circuit, and the first they knew of the affect on tyres was in free practise on Friday.

There is no F1 testing on the GP track at the IMS at all, however the last IRL meet was the weekend before last.

You can draw you own conclusions over whether Bridgestone and Ferrari knew Michelin and its teams would be in tyre trouble.

SS7


>> Edited by shoestring7 on Tuesday 21st June 14:27

metalmicky

12 posts

231 months

Tuesday 21st June 2005
quotequote all
I think the above posters have covered the subject pretty well.

I find the first few laps entertaining and thats about it.

Most other forms of M Sport provide more entertainment.

Toupeid or not toupeid Mr eckstn has too much to say,
I am not against technological advance but if we want more spectacle and closer driving then lets get rid of the launch,traction and all other such controls, lets go back to manual G'boxes and clutches, There should be more emphasis on the driver and his/her abilities.
Tyres. change as many sets as you want, there are few sights more ridiculouse than the team of wheel changers snapping into action with a pressure gauge!

The pit lane strategy is a big part of the race and has the potential for huge gains as well as losses.

And whilst on this rant I would employ the safety car on a more regular basis as bunching up the field does refocus a driver.
Mike

simonrockman

6,852 posts

255 months

Tuesday 21st June 2005
quotequote all
Ferrari need to realise why they race.

It's to sell cars. OK, so it's no longer a case of race on Sunday, sell on Monday, but It won't have done Ferrari sales in the US any favors (sic).
More significantly if FIAT had any plans for re-introducing the brand known as 'Fix It Again Tony', they can now forget it.
It wasn't Ferrari's fault, but not being big enough to help the sport be a sport will tarnish them.