Lewis Hamilton in the BTCC ?
Discussion
Falconer said:
First few races he’d be run off the road and would have a whinge about the contact.
However, although I’m no fan ,and with all respect to the likes of Turkington and Sutton and others he would then outclass anyone in BTCC and would would win all 3 races most weeks making BTCC as boring as F1.
What not even past champions of touring cars have come back into the btcc with the ngtc cars and haven't exactly outclassed the field. They are very tricky cars to drive fast straight out of the box. Specially with weight and reverse grids infact only 2 drivers have won all 3 races in a btcc round since the 3 race format was brought it. Dan eves in 2005 in the integra with a grid of around 15 cars and plato in the lacetti in 2009 at brands with I think 20ish cars and both of them was in the s2000/btc era.However, although I’m no fan ,and with all respect to the likes of Turkington and Sutton and others he would then outclass anyone in BTCC and would would win all 3 races most weeks making BTCC as boring as F1.
Lewis is a mighty driver but to think he could jump straight in and blow away the field is extremely far fetched.
Shameless excuse to post that Mansell crash for those commenting:
https://youtu.be/aVvebZwmLKU
I could see something similar happening with anyone quick but not used to the contact, I’ve often thought a few current drivers seem to lack self preservation or collision avoidance skills but I’m sure Wookie can confirm his view (and I don’t include you in that pal).
Also I am fairly sure I saw him in the pit lane at Brands when his brother was driving a couple of years ago. So I think it could happen one day, especially if Nick is still involved and once his fashion career or whatever he does next is over and he has nothing else to do.
https://youtu.be/aVvebZwmLKU
I could see something similar happening with anyone quick but not used to the contact, I’ve often thought a few current drivers seem to lack self preservation or collision avoidance skills but I’m sure Wookie can confirm his view (and I don’t include you in that pal).
Also I am fairly sure I saw him in the pit lane at Brands when his brother was driving a couple of years ago. So I think it could happen one day, especially if Nick is still involved and once his fashion career or whatever he does next is over and he has nothing else to do.
Yeah there’s definitely a skill to it which you develop with time (some don’t)
You also get a feel for what sort of hits are going to hurt the car or cause an incident
Everyone makes mistakes though, we run aggressively and inches apart so you have to take the odd knock on the chin from time to time and hold your hands up when you get it wrong.
Some drivers though are over aggressive and will absolutely aim at you. Unfortunately they are often like Teflon because they’re within an inch of the rules and effectively rely on the other driver to get out of the way. If you don’t they’ll get away with it 9 times out of 10 as a racing incident, usually after they’ve knocked your tracking out with their car unscathed because they know how to hit you ‘in the right way’.
To be fair though it’s pretty common practice for a newcomer to get bounced about a bit... to be fair even a few of the regulars can be wound up into a mistake with a bit of rubbing
You also get a feel for what sort of hits are going to hurt the car or cause an incident
Everyone makes mistakes though, we run aggressively and inches apart so you have to take the odd knock on the chin from time to time and hold your hands up when you get it wrong.
Some drivers though are over aggressive and will absolutely aim at you. Unfortunately they are often like Teflon because they’re within an inch of the rules and effectively rely on the other driver to get out of the way. If you don’t they’ll get away with it 9 times out of 10 as a racing incident, usually after they’ve knocked your tracking out with their car unscathed because they know how to hit you ‘in the right way’.
To be fair though it’s pretty common practice for a newcomer to get bounced about a bit... to be fair even a few of the regulars can be wound up into a mistake with a bit of rubbing
No Face said:
So I think it could happen one day, especially if Nick is still involved and once his fashion career or whatever he does next is over and he has nothing else to do.
If teams care about who's actually able to drive the thing quickly he shouldn't be in the next race let alone a few seasons from nowtrackdemon said:
He's doing a fine job of that all by himself. There's reasons he's a BTCC driver, and I doubt driving ability is high up the list
Well, I dare say he'd rather be Joe Soap without cerebral palsy than a BTCC driver with it . But he's having a go and good for him . Strange how we can get all quivery lipped about some brave souls with a disability getting into a race car , but stick the boot in to this guy just because his brother's famous . Funny old world.. Fair play to him for getting in a race car, he does better than the general public would. I think the main problem most have would be that he is taking up a spot in what is probably the top British series and is pretty much only there because of his brothers success and trading off his name.
Nick has never had a win,pole, fastest lap or podium in any series he has raced in and is usually found in last or crashed. If he wants to race it should probably be in a lower tier.
Nick has never had a win,pole, fastest lap or podium in any series he has raced in and is usually found in last or crashed. If he wants to race it should probably be in a lower tier.
RB Will said:
Fair play to him for getting in a race car, he does better than the general public would. I think the main problem most have would be that he is taking up a spot in what is probably the top British series and is pretty much only there because of his brothers success and trading off his name.
Nick has never had a win,pole, fastest lap or podium in any series he has raced in and is usually found in last or crashed. If he wants to race it should probably be in a lower tier.
He is only "taking up a spot" when every TBL is allocated and every car has a driver capable of winning. It's not as though there is a queue of people with the ability and the budget.Nick has never had a win,pole, fastest lap or podium in any series he has raced in and is usually found in last or crashed. If he wants to race it should probably be in a lower tier.
coppice said:
but stick the boot in to this guy just because his brother's famous
Nope. It's because he's demonstrably crap, just look at the results; I doubt someone without a profile would have kept the seat as long. I'm all for equal opportunities, but it's time someone else was given a goRB Will said:
Fair play to him for getting in a race car, he does better than the general public would. I think the main problem most have would be that he is taking up a spot in what is probably the top British series and is pretty much only there because of his brothers success and trading off his name.
Nick has never had a win,pole, fastest lap or podium in any series he has raced in and is usually found in last or crashed. If he wants to race it should probably be in a lower tier.
Will gets itNick has never had a win,pole, fastest lap or podium in any series he has raced in and is usually found in last or crashed. If he wants to race it should probably be in a lower tier.
Lets be honest he is hardly wasting a seat in the grid the passat is a dog of a car not even goff can do anything with it this year. He has the money/sponsors so he gets the seat. The team are happy they have someone paying for the seat and gets coverage outside of motorsport due to his disability.
trackdemon said:
Nope. It's because he's demonstrably crap, just look at the results; I doubt someone without a profile would have kept the seat as long. I'm all for equal opportunities, but it's time someone else was given a go
If someone with the budget and the ability to generate as much publicity as Nick does knocked on the door then I expect any team in the BTCC would take them on. You don't just get "given a go" in motorsport.trackdemon said:
Nope. It's because he's demonstrably crap, just look at the results; I doubt someone without a profile would have kept the seat as long. I'm all for equal opportunities, but it's time someone else was given a go
So what? Lots of people have been uncompetitive in any number of series , from Ken and Phil Silverstone in F3 to any number of backmarker wannabes in sportscar racing . They're at least doing it , or have done it, which is a damn sight more than I am - maybe you too ? I don't begrudge anybody who has a go - good luck to them . Kraken said:
If someone with the budget and the ability to generate as much publicity as Nick does knocked on the door then I expect any team in the BTCC would take them on. You don't just get "given a go" in motorsport.
And there is the nub. Lets not pretend he'd be beating Turks if he had a BMW seatcoppice said:
trackdemon said:
Nope. It's because he's demonstrably crap, just look at the results; I doubt someone without a profile would have kept the seat as long. I'm all for equal opportunities, but it's time someone else was given a go
So what? Lots of people have been uncompetitive in any number of series , from Ken and Phil Silverstone in F3 to any number of backmarker wannabes in sportscar racing . They're at least doing it , or have done it, which is a damn sight more than I am - maybe you too ? I don't begrudge anybody who has a go - good luck to them . trackdemon said:
And there is the nub. Lets not pretend he'd be beating Turks if he had a BMW seat
And like I said earlier in the thread that's only a problem if every other seat has someone of Turkingtons calibre in it and there's another waiting for Nic's seat. Going by the FP times today there are six other drivers that should be out before Nic.There isn't a motor racing series on the planet AFAIK where every single driver has the ability to win and there 100% has never been that situation in BTCC. Motor racing needs different personalities to attract different types of people to it. As much as I admire Turks you've only got to read the official BTCC social media to see how hated he is by many so it's not all about being the best driver.
Edited by Kraken on Saturday 14th November 10:29
Don't get caught up on the Turks reference. Switch for Sutton/Cammish/Ingram/Jackson/Chilton.... whoever you like. Point still stands.
Stats don't lie:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_British_Touring...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_British_Touring...
Stats don't lie:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_British_Touring...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_British_Touring...
Nick isn't 'demonstrably crap', he's actually got some talent, you can see it in his data, but this year he's massively inexperienced in a tough championship with an uncompetitive car.
Also when I say massively inexperienced it's not just the fact that he's not actually got that much racing under his belt, but for the fact that actually with the adaptations he needs to drive a racing car, he hasn't even had that much track time outside of racing.
In my opinion as long as he's progressing and inspiring people with a disability then it's not a wasted seat.
Also when I say massively inexperienced it's not just the fact that he's not actually got that much racing under his belt, but for the fact that actually with the adaptations he needs to drive a racing car, he hasn't even had that much track time outside of racing.
In my opinion as long as he's progressing and inspiring people with a disability then it's not a wasted seat.
The Wookie said:
Nick isn't 'demonstrably crap', he's actually got some talent, you can see it in his data, but this year he's massively inexperienced in a tough championship with an uncompetitive car.
Also when I say massively inexperienced it's not just the fact that he's not actually got that much racing under his belt, but for the fact that actually with the adaptations he needs to drive a racing car, he hasn't even had that much track time outside of racing.
In my opinion as long as he's progressing and inspiring people with a disability then it's not a wasted seat.
I'm not silly enough to fully disagree with you about racing and BTCC matters lol. I agree saying he is crap is a bit harsh, as I said he would run rings around most on here despite his condition and adaptions required, and fair play to him. Maybe uncompetitive would be a better term? Also when I say massively inexperienced it's not just the fact that he's not actually got that much racing under his belt, but for the fact that actually with the adaptations he needs to drive a racing car, he hasn't even had that much track time outside of racing.
In my opinion as long as he's progressing and inspiring people with a disability then it's not a wasted seat.
Having looked at his wiki the other day I think it said he has never been near the sharp end in anything he has done but he has also seemingly only entered really strong / competitive series like Clio Cup and touring cars of some sort. If I remember correctly he was the only driver in the championship last year not to score a single point? I think he would do his reputation a world of good if he dropped to a lower series where he could finish top 5 or 10 regularly. Suppose the trade off would be less exposure, though to be fair he doesn't exactly get much coverage for his cause in the BTCC, unless there is a lot that goes on at the meetings that doesn't get televised?
Exactly, he's gone straight in at the deep end. I sympathise with it.
People often remark that I've been in the BTCC a long time and yes I have, but actually my first season in it was only my 5th full season of racing out of the Caterham Academy, and when I did the Academy I really was completely green; I'd never been on track except for a single Palmersport day whereas plenty of the guys I was racing against were trackday warriors and ex-karting guys.
With my career I probably went a year too early into every step up, but I won races (or at least my class) and was near the front in everything I did up until BTCC. Despite that it took me nearly ten years of experience AND to get myself in the right car to be able to regularly see the red lights without squinting.
Nick's gone even further, he went straight in at the top level with only a bit of sim racing under his belt. He's actually closer to the front than I was when I first came to BTCC and it's far more competitive now than it was when I started.
He'll say himself that he'd rather be building his craft in the lower series but fair play to him, he wants to get the funding together himself rather than rely on his brother, and BTCC is a lot easier to get sponsors on board than anywhere else, regardless of your place in the field.
People often remark that I've been in the BTCC a long time and yes I have, but actually my first season in it was only my 5th full season of racing out of the Caterham Academy, and when I did the Academy I really was completely green; I'd never been on track except for a single Palmersport day whereas plenty of the guys I was racing against were trackday warriors and ex-karting guys.
With my career I probably went a year too early into every step up, but I won races (or at least my class) and was near the front in everything I did up until BTCC. Despite that it took me nearly ten years of experience AND to get myself in the right car to be able to regularly see the red lights without squinting.
Nick's gone even further, he went straight in at the top level with only a bit of sim racing under his belt. He's actually closer to the front than I was when I first came to BTCC and it's far more competitive now than it was when I started.
He'll say himself that he'd rather be building his craft in the lower series but fair play to him, he wants to get the funding together himself rather than rely on his brother, and BTCC is a lot easier to get sponsors on board than anywhere else, regardless of your place in the field.
I have to concede my language was a bit harsh, like any series I'm sure you have to have a reasonable level of talent to be anywhere on the grid. So yeah, happy to retract 'demonstrably crap' and modify that to 'a bit out of his depth'. That said, I'm not convinced that after 2 seasons of poor results anyone else would continue to get a drive - that's the crux of my assertion that I feel someone else should be in the seat. It would be interesting to see how he'd get on in lower formulae with those 2 seasons under his belt now, that experience must have been good, perhaps try the supporting Mini series and start finishing in the top half to build confidence as a platform to springboard back into a more competitive BTCC seat?...
Edited by trackdemon on Tuesday 17th November 10:55
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