2021 Rallying Thread (WRC, ERC and national rally)
Discussion
GravelBen said:
If nothing else it's a good demonstration of why rally cars don't have airbags.No it never is, but it is all owned, like most motorsport now by media companies, who spend very little actually promoting and a huge amount doing nothing, Red Bull sponsored cars do a lot of winning so if you happen to be a branch of red Bull you don't really to do any work!! Was the case for decades in WRC with the Seb's.
Paywalls for minority sports are ridiculous, you are literally making sure your sport is seen by the tiniest amount of people possible for the smallest amount of money.
But, they know that tv companies don't want it, can't sell it, can't get people to watch it, so cant get advertising for it, never have, so this is their best solution, to hide the entire thing behind paywalls so that people like me just ignore it and watch it on dodgy streams anyway.
As with any sport these days it is ALL about money, nothing else, not even the fans
Paywalls for minority sports are ridiculous, you are literally making sure your sport is seen by the tiniest amount of people possible for the smallest amount of money.
But, they know that tv companies don't want it, can't sell it, can't get people to watch it, so cant get advertising for it, never have, so this is their best solution, to hide the entire thing behind paywalls so that people like me just ignore it and watch it on dodgy streams anyway.
As with any sport these days it is ALL about money, nothing else, not even the fans
ArnageWRC said:
Some news not reported on here:
Neuville crashed heavily in testing, which may set their development back.....
Andrea Adamo has left his role as the Hyundai motorsport boss.
The ERC will be on the All Live platform along with WRC, World Rally X - sounds good, but all behind a paywall, is that really good?
For £8 a month? Yes?Neuville crashed heavily in testing, which may set their development back.....
Andrea Adamo has left his role as the Hyundai motorsport boss.
The ERC will be on the All Live platform along with WRC, World Rally X - sounds good, but all behind a paywall, is that really good?
ArnageWRC said:
He's right, but not sure what can be done about it. We're committed to the Rally1 cars, so that's one thing we can't change.The promotional side needs major work, that's for sure.
Yves Matton has quit as Rally Director of the FIA. Rumour linking him to Hyundai, though I don't really see why they would want him. He hardly did wonders for Citroen.
ArnageWRC said:
We keep banging on about the promotion issue, but it never seems to improve. I assume they think it's perfectly fine. The evidence would be quite the opposite.
All Live is not the answer.....
All Live is preaching to the converted unfortunately. And even I am thinking of stopping my subscription, as it's just too repetitive and doesn't go deep enough.All Live is not the answer.....
Skylinecrazy said:
I don’t think promotion is an issue tbh, rallying is absolutely massive in France, Spain, Portugal etc...
Loeb is doing Monte, Formaux doing a full season and Elliot Edmunson joining Solberg for the year.
That is true to a degree. It's definitely an issue in the UK though.Loeb is doing Monte, Formaux doing a full season and Elliot Edmunson joining Solberg for the year.
I would agree that only really in Britain is rallying struggling for exposure, it is huge in parts of Europe, go on EWRC and there are countless events even now every weekend in France, I subscribe to several French youtube channels and the numbers are immense, it is fairly boring I admit watching endless Citroens, Renaults and Pugs droning round but the talent there is far in excess of elsewhere, even low down the order. I would add that Spain and Portugal have come into this aswell as certain places in eastern Europe like Estonia, Lithuania, Poland Hungary and Bulgaria, there seem to established rallies there and decent entries, but maybe not the level you see in France, Finland or Italy.
Wasn't it always thus for the last 40 years though, Scandinavia, France, Italy have always really been at the forefront in terms of drivers and rallies, Britain had a glut of talent from the early 90's to the early 00's it died away with those two drivers and now the sport has been emasculated beyond all measure in the UK unlike anywhere else in Europe because of a couple of fatal accidents and the insurance garbage that came as a result, venues are dying, dear to rent, no speccies allowed on most of them, or you get Palmer style rallysprints masquerading as rallies.
Wales is the saviour here as are closed roads events, but Europe is the place to be for proper rallying really
Wasn't it always thus for the last 40 years though, Scandinavia, France, Italy have always really been at the forefront in terms of drivers and rallies, Britain had a glut of talent from the early 90's to the early 00's it died away with those two drivers and now the sport has been emasculated beyond all measure in the UK unlike anywhere else in Europe because of a couple of fatal accidents and the insurance garbage that came as a result, venues are dying, dear to rent, no speccies allowed on most of them, or you get Palmer style rallysprints masquerading as rallies.
Wales is the saviour here as are closed roads events, but Europe is the place to be for proper rallying really
LukeBrown66 said:
I would agree that only really in Britain is rallying struggling for exposure, it is huge in parts of Europe, go on EWRC and there are countless events even now every weekend in France, I subscribe to several French youtube channels and the numbers are immense, it is fairly boring I admit watching endless Citroens, Renaults and Pugs droning round but the talent there is far in excess of elsewhere, even low down the order. I would add that Spain and Portugal have come into this aswell as certain places in eastern Europe like Estonia, Lithuania, Poland Hungary and Bulgaria, there seem to established rallies there and decent entries, but maybe not the level you see in France, Finland or Italy.
Wasn't it always thus for the last 40 years though, Scandinavia, France, Italy have always really been at the forefront in terms of drivers and rallies, Britain had a glut of talent from the early 90's to the early 00's it died away with those two drivers and now the sport has been emasculated beyond all measure in the UK unlike anywhere else in Europe because of a couple of fatal accidents and the insurance garbage that came as a result, venues are dying, dear to rent, no speccies allowed on most of them, or you get Palmer style rallysprints masquerading as rallies.
Wales is the saviour here as are closed roads events, but Europe is the place to be for proper rallying really
I think its still very big in Ireland. there are still a number of drivers with the cash for the top machines. Plus its very easy to close the roads. Wasn't it always thus for the last 40 years though, Scandinavia, France, Italy have always really been at the forefront in terms of drivers and rallies, Britain had a glut of talent from the early 90's to the early 00's it died away with those two drivers and now the sport has been emasculated beyond all measure in the UK unlike anywhere else in Europe because of a couple of fatal accidents and the insurance garbage that came as a result, venues are dying, dear to rent, no speccies allowed on most of them, or you get Palmer style rallysprints masquerading as rallies.
Wales is the saviour here as are closed roads events, but Europe is the place to be for proper rallying really
People keep saying it's big in Europe, Ireland, etc and that's true; even events in the UK this year have had decent entries.
However, it's not bringing more manufacturers in, is it? France, with it's manufacturers, Citroen, Peugeot, Renault, etc - yet not one of them are in the top class of the WRC.
There's obviously a reason why; and the most obvious one is cost; it's not worth the outlay for the returns due to poor exposure.
However, it's not bringing more manufacturers in, is it? France, with it's manufacturers, Citroen, Peugeot, Renault, etc - yet not one of them are in the top class of the WRC.
There's obviously a reason why; and the most obvious one is cost; it's not worth the outlay for the returns due to poor exposure.
Manufacturers are not interested because WRC and motorsport in general does not really represent where they are heading when it did before. Citroen, Peugeot, Ford wanted you to buy Focuses, 206's Xsaras C4s etc. Some WRC cars did not even try and market posh versions of their cars like Hyundai, others went for a brand like SEAT with the Cupra and Skoda with their VRS models.
Those models are to be replaced by electric in the next 10 years, that market does NOT exist for the masses right now that market is big family cars as that is the money winner, SUV etc, only the rich with garages and their own driveways, these WRC cars that they are trying to sell are not really in that market yet, the market of apartments, flats, that market does not exist for electric and not even hybrids, so no point getting involved.
it is why WRX fully electric will probably attract them first
Those models are to be replaced by electric in the next 10 years, that market does NOT exist for the masses right now that market is big family cars as that is the money winner, SUV etc, only the rich with garages and their own driveways, these WRC cars that they are trying to sell are not really in that market yet, the market of apartments, flats, that market does not exist for electric and not even hybrids, so no point getting involved.
it is why WRX fully electric will probably attract them first
Manufacturers aren't interested - yet the WEC is collecting new manufacturers no problem. They're doing something right......How long that lasts is another matter. The WRC however can't, they're doing something wrong.
Too many people make excuses for the WRC, and won't accept it's issues.....especially the journalists, or is it PR men.
Too many people make excuses for the WRC, and won't accept it's issues.....especially the journalists, or is it PR men.
The journalists will not accept anything, they all are and have been the same for donkeys years, Evans etc are in a nice comfortable position being the only people really reporting the main stay of that sport, you only have to see from the Mouton thing, Evans was not involved with WRC back then yet spouts as if he was, and knew about Audi, Mouton etc, it is nonsense.
However you cannot blame him for taking on things like that as he is in a position to at the moment.
WRC does not represent manufacturers in the same way racing does, especially endurance racing, a Le Mans win does far more for you than winning God knows how many WRC titles, look at Audi, (on the back of IMSA and WRC initially I admit) Peugeot, Porsche even Mazda. Audi made their cars better from Le Mans, it started with WRC and Quattro but Le Mans took their image a level higher, not WRC, allowed them to make more expensive luxury cars.
take some more examples, Nissan gained far more from WSPC than WRC despite spending a fortune on a totally flawed Sunny, Toyota too probably got far more from F1 and Le Mans than WRC, despite being the dominant team for years, and the most controversial.
Subaru, Fiord, Mitsubishi, they gained from WRC, why? Because they sold cars that were very similar, just like BTCC used to do, they were relatively attainable, looked the same, had great pulling power.
However you cannot blame him for taking on things like that as he is in a position to at the moment.
WRC does not represent manufacturers in the same way racing does, especially endurance racing, a Le Mans win does far more for you than winning God knows how many WRC titles, look at Audi, (on the back of IMSA and WRC initially I admit) Peugeot, Porsche even Mazda. Audi made their cars better from Le Mans, it started with WRC and Quattro but Le Mans took their image a level higher, not WRC, allowed them to make more expensive luxury cars.
take some more examples, Nissan gained far more from WSPC than WRC despite spending a fortune on a totally flawed Sunny, Toyota too probably got far more from F1 and Le Mans than WRC, despite being the dominant team for years, and the most controversial.
Subaru, Fiord, Mitsubishi, they gained from WRC, why? Because they sold cars that were very similar, just like BTCC used to do, they were relatively attainable, looked the same, had great pulling power.
Well I am looking forward to 2022, even if I have to pay the price of a McDonald’s to watch it.
The new cars look really good, and the entry list for Monte is also relatively strong. It will be interesting to see how the dynamic changes now there won’t be a dominating French man at the helm.
The new cars look really good, and the entry list for Monte is also relatively strong. It will be interesting to see how the dynamic changes now there won’t be a dominating French man at the helm.
I don't think anyone has an issue with the price, the issue is with the hiding behind that and making the coverage average everywhere else. That is fairly tired, cheap and inward looking. If you dumb it down so only a few thousands people pay for it, what are you actually doing, making money, nothing more, you are not doing your aACTUAL job as a promoter, unless that is your ONLY remit of course which is probably the truth.
But what do they need to promote? Every rally they put on is full? There’s enough people watching it to expand to cover the ERC and the WRX?
There is new manufacturers interested going forward, they’ve already said that. It may take a few more years for more to come, but they will.
Just because it isn’t big in England, means absolutely nothing. We are a VERY small cog.
Please tell me another top level motorsport that is over subscribed with manufacturer support?
WEC had 3 max (at the top level) for a very long time, Formula E had loads at the beginning, but that was a complete hype train and something new. Anything else?
As far as I can see, WRC doesn’t actually need more manufacturers and is in a relatively strong position at the moment.
There is new manufacturers interested going forward, they’ve already said that. It may take a few more years for more to come, but they will.
Just because it isn’t big in England, means absolutely nothing. We are a VERY small cog.
Please tell me another top level motorsport that is over subscribed with manufacturer support?
WEC had 3 max (at the top level) for a very long time, Formula E had loads at the beginning, but that was a complete hype train and something new. Anything else?
As far as I can see, WRC doesn’t actually need more manufacturers and is in a relatively strong position at the moment.
Edited by Skylinecrazy on Tuesday 28th December 14:04
Skylinecrazy said:
As far as I can see, WRC doesn’t actually need more manufacturers and is in a relatively strong position at the moment.
How on earth can you say WRC is in a strong position? For most rounds, it is lucky if there are a dozen WRC cars. Even adding in all the other classes it is hardly in a strong position.Drumroll said:
Skylinecrazy said:
As far as I can see, WRC doesn’t actually need more manufacturers and is in a relatively strong position at the moment.
How on earth can you say WRC is in a strong position? For most rounds, it is lucky if there are a dozen WRC cars. Even adding in all the other classes it is hardly in a strong position.Monte is fully subscribed, and I’m sure that’s what the organisers care about.
Would you say WEC is all about LMP1?
R5 are the customer cars, and there will no doubt be 25 or so of them.
Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff