2021 Rallying Thread (WRC, ERC and national rally)
Discussion
Skylinecrazy said:
Please tell me another top level motorsport that is over subscribed with manufacturer support?
WEC had 3 max (at the top level) for a very long time, Formula E had loads at the beginning, but that was a complete hype train and something new. Anything else?
As far as I can see, WRC doesn’t actually need more manufacturers and is in a relatively strong position at the moment.
Relatively strong? What planet do you live on? Do you work for WRC Promoter......2.5 (3 if you're being generous) Manufacturers isn't strong. WEC had 3 max (at the top level) for a very long time, Formula E had loads at the beginning, but that was a complete hype train and something new. Anything else?
As far as I can see, WRC doesn’t actually need more manufacturers and is in a relatively strong position at the moment.
Edited by Skylinecrazy on Tuesday 28th December 14:04
The WEC is collecting new manufacturers like it's going out of fashion....Toyota, Alpine, Peugeot, Porsche, Audi, Ferrari, Glickenhaus, Cadillac, Acura, BMW; all will join over the next few years, if not already in.
ArnageWRC said:
Skylinecrazy said:
Please tell me another top level motorsport that is over subscribed with manufacturer support?
WEC had 3 max (at the top level) for a very long time, Formula E had loads at the beginning, but that was a complete hype train and something new. Anything else?
As far as I can see, WRC doesn’t actually need more manufacturers and is in a relatively strong position at the moment.
Relatively strong? What planet do you live on? Do you work for WRC Promoter......2.5 (3 if you're being generous) Manufacturers isn't strong. WEC had 3 max (at the top level) for a very long time, Formula E had loads at the beginning, but that was a complete hype train and something new. Anything else?
As far as I can see, WRC doesn’t actually need more manufacturers and is in a relatively strong position at the moment.
Edited by Skylinecrazy on Tuesday 28th December 14:04
The WEC is collecting new manufacturers like it's going out of fashion....Toyota, Alpine, Peugeot, Porsche, Audi, Ferrari, Glickenhaus, Cadillac, Acura, BMW; all win join over the next few years, if not already in.
Ford, Skoda, Citroen, Hyundai, VW all in R5. R4 has the addition of Renault & Opel. Alpine have a considerable RGT effort in Europe, along with Abarth. When you open your eyes and look down the chain there’s quite a few manufacturers involved no?
WEC is gathering loads yes, but it has had virtually no support in LMP1 for nearly a decade. A change of regs, and people are joining. Whose to say that won’t happen in the WRC in the next 4-5 years?
Edited by Skylinecrazy on Tuesday 28th December 16:14
WRC is not strong, but rallying is in my view. But in a very different way.
WRC has had to have big three car teams for some time now, it never used to, when you had Mitsubishi, Toyota, Skoda, Ford, Peugeot, Citroen Subaru, Hyundai, then add in Suzuki for a bit and SEAT, it WAS strong then, it has not been like that for a very long time.
People, including the promoters have to move away from trying to make money out of fans, I would not necessarily pay to watch WEC, and I would certainly not pay anything to watch f1, even less the pathetic rip off prices they charge, but WRC maybe I would, but ONLY live, I have no interest in watching it on tv, because you get nothing of the thrill, the waiting, the noise, then camaraderie.
For fans as a live experience WRC works fine, it never makes money as a tv sport because it doesn't work on tv, for any WRC event I can go on youtube the evening of the event and find better footage, sound and interest from amateurs, I don't need to pay 7 quid a month to watch pointless post stage interviews and the same presenting style for the last 20 years, it is just not worth it.
I get why they try and do this, it is the way sports promotion works now, buy the rights, then sell it to the smallest amount of people possible at the highest price to try and squeeze money out of fans, then get countries to pay you to host events, charge for anything you can it is about making money, sports rights companies are not interested in sport, they just want to make money, the sooner you realise this and we could easily be entirely rid of them then better.
WRC does not need them, what do they actually do please tell me
WRC has had to have big three car teams for some time now, it never used to, when you had Mitsubishi, Toyota, Skoda, Ford, Peugeot, Citroen Subaru, Hyundai, then add in Suzuki for a bit and SEAT, it WAS strong then, it has not been like that for a very long time.
People, including the promoters have to move away from trying to make money out of fans, I would not necessarily pay to watch WEC, and I would certainly not pay anything to watch f1, even less the pathetic rip off prices they charge, but WRC maybe I would, but ONLY live, I have no interest in watching it on tv, because you get nothing of the thrill, the waiting, the noise, then camaraderie.
For fans as a live experience WRC works fine, it never makes money as a tv sport because it doesn't work on tv, for any WRC event I can go on youtube the evening of the event and find better footage, sound and interest from amateurs, I don't need to pay 7 quid a month to watch pointless post stage interviews and the same presenting style for the last 20 years, it is just not worth it.
I get why they try and do this, it is the way sports promotion works now, buy the rights, then sell it to the smallest amount of people possible at the highest price to try and squeeze money out of fans, then get countries to pay you to host events, charge for anything you can it is about making money, sports rights companies are not interested in sport, they just want to make money, the sooner you realise this and we could easily be entirely rid of them then better.
WRC does not need them, what do they actually do please tell me
Skylinecrazy said:
hy are you so blinded by WRC? There are other classes below the top which are arguably more important to a consumer. How many R5 manufacturers are there?
Ford, Skoda, Citroen, Hyundai, VW all in R5. R4 has the addition of Renault & Opel. Alpine have a considerable RGT effort in Europe, along with Abarth. When you open your eyes and look down the chain there’s quite a few manufacturers involved no?
WEC is gathering loads yes, but it has had virtually no support in LMP1 for nearly a decade. A change of regs, and people are joining. Whose to say that won’t happen in the WRC in the next 4-5 years?
Haven't VW basically stopped developing the Polo R5 now? So that's going to slip away. The Skoda effort isn't what it once was, Ford isn't Ford, it's M-Sport, and Citroen have dropped right off too. While there are a number of different Rally2 cars out there, the manufacturer interest has sadly waned somewhat. I still believe that those cars should have become the main category from 2017, rather than the uber expensive cars we did get. That probably would have resulted in more manufacturer interest than we're likely to see from the new Rally1 cars.Ford, Skoda, Citroen, Hyundai, VW all in R5. R4 has the addition of Renault & Opel. Alpine have a considerable RGT effort in Europe, along with Abarth. When you open your eyes and look down the chain there’s quite a few manufacturers involved no?
WEC is gathering loads yes, but it has had virtually no support in LMP1 for nearly a decade. A change of regs, and people are joining. Whose to say that won’t happen in the WRC in the next 4-5 years?
Edited by Skylinecrazy on Tuesday 28th December 16:14
R4 is gone, and was a complete and utter failure. The WRC screwed anyone that bought an R4 car by lumping them in with R5 cars almost immediately. It's now been replaced by Rally3 effectively, which currently only has one car - the Fiesta. Toyota are talking about doing one, but it's not appeared yet. R-GT is a great concept, but has been fudged by the FIA, who seem intent on restricting its growth. I spoke to Richard Tuthill a few years ago and the resistance from the FIA sounded staggering. They basically refused to let him run his car on gravel, which was ridiculous.
I know Yves Matton (thank God he's gone) kept saying that another manufacturer would join the WRC, but I'll believe that when I see it. I wouldn't be surprised if Hyundai departed fairly soon either. The cars in the new era are extremely flawed really; incredibly expensive, using a shared spaceframe, scaled body panels and a spec hybrid system, all of which leaves little room for a manufacturer to claim that they're doing anything innovative. I can't see much incentive for anyone new to join at the top level. Even the lower categories are hardly bursting with manufacturers - M-Sport, Peugeot, Renault and Opel (so Peugeot) are the only ones with Rally4 and Rally5 cars, so not a great variety.
The "R" and now "Rally" categories have really restricted things sadly. A Rally5 car starts at €50k, which is a pretty extreme entry point for a car that is, in reality, pretty slow. While the days of "win on Sunday, sell on Monday" are long behind us, I do think the lower categories need a more affordable entry point with some more production-based classes. I would have loved to see classes for the 1.6T hot hatches, or even the 4WD hot hatches, but we've missed that boat now, as most are gone. That's a shame, as there were loads of production cars out there that would have fitted and, if there had been a modern "Group N" equivalent for them, that might have helped with getting some more interest. Sadly the FIA and WRC seem focused on making endless classes for expensive, prototype 4WD cars instead.
As a UK rally person, I think it's easy to forget that rallying is still relatively healthy in some other countries, but that doesn't mean there aren't a lot of problems in the WRC. The current direction and lack of action from the promoter is very concerning.
LukeBrown66 said:
WRC is not strong, but rallying is in my view. But in a very different way.
WRC has had to have big three car teams for some time now, it never used to, when you had Mitsubishi, Toyota, Skoda, Ford, Peugeot, Citroen Subaru, Hyundai, then add in Suzuki for a bit and SEAT, it WAS strong then, it has not been like that for a very long time.
People, including the promoters have to move away from trying to make money out of fans, I would not necessarily pay to watch WEC, and I would certainly not pay anything to watch f1, even less the pathetic rip off prices they charge, but WRC maybe I would, but ONLY live, I have no interest in watching it on tv, because you get nothing of the thrill, the waiting, the noise, then camaraderie.
For fans as a live experience WRC works fine, it never makes money as a tv sport because it doesn't work on tv, for any WRC event I can go on youtube the evening of the event and find better footage, sound and interest from amateurs, I don't need to pay 7 quid a month to watch pointless post stage interviews and the same presenting style for the last 20 years, it is just not worth it.
I get why they try and do this, it is the way sports promotion works now, buy the rights, then sell it to the smallest amount of people possible at the highest price to try and squeeze money out of fans, then get countries to pay you to host events, charge for anything you can it is about making money, sports rights companies are not interested in sport, they just want to make money, the sooner you realise this and we could easily be entirely rid of them then better.
WRC does not need them, what do they actually do please tell me
I wouldn't agree with all of this - I think rallying on TV can be great if it's presented in the right way - but I do agree with the comments about the current coverage. The stage-end interviews are largely crap and not very interesting, the current commentary team add little insight, and the endless onboard and helicopter footage does little to show-off the excitement of what's going on.WRC has had to have big three car teams for some time now, it never used to, when you had Mitsubishi, Toyota, Skoda, Ford, Peugeot, Citroen Subaru, Hyundai, then add in Suzuki for a bit and SEAT, it WAS strong then, it has not been like that for a very long time.
People, including the promoters have to move away from trying to make money out of fans, I would not necessarily pay to watch WEC, and I would certainly not pay anything to watch f1, even less the pathetic rip off prices they charge, but WRC maybe I would, but ONLY live, I have no interest in watching it on tv, because you get nothing of the thrill, the waiting, the noise, then camaraderie.
For fans as a live experience WRC works fine, it never makes money as a tv sport because it doesn't work on tv, for any WRC event I can go on youtube the evening of the event and find better footage, sound and interest from amateurs, I don't need to pay 7 quid a month to watch pointless post stage interviews and the same presenting style for the last 20 years, it is just not worth it.
I get why they try and do this, it is the way sports promotion works now, buy the rights, then sell it to the smallest amount of people possible at the highest price to try and squeeze money out of fans, then get countries to pay you to host events, charge for anything you can it is about making money, sports rights companies are not interested in sport, they just want to make money, the sooner you realise this and we could easily be entirely rid of them then better.
WRC does not need them, what do they actually do please tell me
I have been a fan of rallying for years, and have been active in the sport at various levels, but even I am considering cancelling my WRC+ subscription, as I just don't think it represents good value for money. They need to invest in improving the quality of the WRC+ coverage, improve the highlights packages, and push for better broadcast slots. There aren't enough stage-side cameras and, when they are there, they are usually poorly placed. As you said, you can see more dramatic footage on YouTube that's been filmed by a guy with a phone, and that's a real problem.
The commentary team needs a complete overhaul. Becs Williams is clearly very passionate about rallying, but she doesn't really add any insight. Julian Porter is ok, but has been out of a car for so long that he can't really give that much. It was nice to see him drive a Rally2 car recently, but more of that kind of thing is needed. What they really need is a couple of ex-drivers, engineers or team bosses to give it some credibility. As for the likes of Kiri Bloore, god only knows what she is doing there. Having people with some recent (or any) WRC experience would mean the coverage could actually contain some decent analysis. You only have to look at F1 to see how they stitch the FOM race feed with their own segments to create content that is actually informative and gives some in-depth insight into what's going on. The WRC has virtually none of that.
The teams have a role to play in this as well. It's nice to see M-Sport doing some of their own content recently, but we need them all to engage. Obviously we can't expect the teams to give away all their secrets, but we can't have a closed shop. Adamo's approach of "you only talk to me" was entirely unhelpful and he should have been told by the promoter that it wasn't acceptable. Obviously motorsport is always going to be influenced by the manufacturer's desire to only broadcast a slick PR message, but F1 has realised that a bit of drama and intrigue goes a long way, and WRC needs to the same. There are few more iconic scenes in rallying than Colin McRrae kicking things around the service area after being told to relinquish his position to Carlos Sainz in Spain in 1995. We have lost a lot of the drama and human side from the WRC; be it stage-end interviews, or the stale "media" zones where drivers and team bosses wheel out the same, tired comments about how hard they're trying. People are attracted to sport because of the human drama, and the teams need to realise that as much as the promoter does.
I don't agree that we can do without sports rights companies. The commercial side is a reality of professional sport. While it will always have its negatives, it can have positives too. The problem the WRC has right now is that the paywalls have been put in place, but the promotion and the quality of the content is lagging well behind.
Jon_S_Rally said:
Stuff
I agree with all of that apart from "Julian Porter is ok". His commentary annoys me, both his inability to shut up and the pointless speculation when he thinks someone has a problem. I much prefer Ostberg's commentary. The videos that appear on YouTube are usually way more entertaining than the official coverage. Aye, VW stopped producing the Polo R5 last year.
I can't see any new manufacturers supporting the new regs, not when the cars are even more expensive than the previous generation. What would they get out of it? I don't see any promotion value in getting involved in a championship that has only just gone hybrid when the public are being herded towards buying EVs. Especially one where official coverage is hidden behind a paywall.
The issues raised about drama are not new, it is exactly the same in any motorsport.
I watch motogp avidly and a few years ago Rossi and Marquez had a huge fallout, it was mega, and what did the promoter do, try and dumb it all down as it was overshadowing the title race, I mean WTF you bloody live for this, it is box office! And they wanted none of it, let it last about a week and tried to bury it, it was pathetic management. Social media was exploding and the riders would have been well up for stoking it as the hatred was clear.
F1 did an OK job with the Lewis and Max thing, but those two are so controlled by their teams it is not easy to make it work. But you dont need to try hard in F1 it is SOOOO dull most of the time, the tiniest bit of needle gets everyone talking and its following is staggering considering how crap it is.
There is no rivalry in WRC really, hasn't been for years, Loeb saw to that, taking all the spirit out of the sport totally. the only real characters have gone, Solberg, Marcus, the new guys, I mean I love Ott but he is as bad as Kimi ffs. Hard to promote.
So you need to move away from that, the spectacle is what needs promoting, and I dont know how you do that, it is magical at times, you either need a special driver or a totally new way to promote it.
The drivers do OK, there is emotion there but it is never captured in the way it might be for me
I watch motogp avidly and a few years ago Rossi and Marquez had a huge fallout, it was mega, and what did the promoter do, try and dumb it all down as it was overshadowing the title race, I mean WTF you bloody live for this, it is box office! And they wanted none of it, let it last about a week and tried to bury it, it was pathetic management. Social media was exploding and the riders would have been well up for stoking it as the hatred was clear.
F1 did an OK job with the Lewis and Max thing, but those two are so controlled by their teams it is not easy to make it work. But you dont need to try hard in F1 it is SOOOO dull most of the time, the tiniest bit of needle gets everyone talking and its following is staggering considering how crap it is.
There is no rivalry in WRC really, hasn't been for years, Loeb saw to that, taking all the spirit out of the sport totally. the only real characters have gone, Solberg, Marcus, the new guys, I mean I love Ott but he is as bad as Kimi ffs. Hard to promote.
So you need to move away from that, the spectacle is what needs promoting, and I dont know how you do that, it is magical at times, you either need a special driver or a totally new way to promote it.
The drivers do OK, there is emotion there but it is never captured in the way it might be for me
Perhaps not a popular opinion, but I think that live coverage has detracted from the drama of WRC.
"Back in the day".....perhaps during the 80s through to early 90s, the main TV coverage was highlights programmes. Perhaps one after each WRC round, and one per night on RallyGB. Due to that, the director had the opportunity to create a compelling TV programme which brought out the drama and the characters.
Now, the live coverage relies on mainly helicopters and in-cars, which are quite frankly, terrible at conveying any drama. You neither hear the cars, nor the crowds, and get very little sense of speed. Almost all drivers now temper their stage-end comments to be as bland and give away as little as possible. Most works teams now have a switch which cuts the live audio feed from the crews as they pass the FF, so all the emotional response to a stage has dissipated by the time they get to the stop line.
The crews themselves are just as interesting, the cars are still incredibly spectacular although very efficient too. The engineering is incredible. Almost all the rallies are close competitively, and in general a few crews are in with a shout of win. But somewhere along the line all that seems to be impossible to package and communicate to today's impatient and time-poor audience.
I've no idea what the solution is, I do have WRC All Live but I would say I watch less than 10% of the season on it. I'm almost always keeping an eye on the stage times (via EWRC), and mostly watch the ITV4 highlights show. A lot of the interesting things are found via post-event journalism and podcasts - eg Dirtfish.
We now have 3 drivers from UK/Ireland to follow in WRC1 and one in WRC2, perhaps some more coming in WRC2 / 3 / Junior. We've had a British driver take the WRC title fight to the last round in each of the last 2 years........against (arguably) the best in the world. Remember when Mansell and Hill were plucky losers in F1? The media went crazy.
"Back in the day".....perhaps during the 80s through to early 90s, the main TV coverage was highlights programmes. Perhaps one after each WRC round, and one per night on RallyGB. Due to that, the director had the opportunity to create a compelling TV programme which brought out the drama and the characters.
Now, the live coverage relies on mainly helicopters and in-cars, which are quite frankly, terrible at conveying any drama. You neither hear the cars, nor the crowds, and get very little sense of speed. Almost all drivers now temper their stage-end comments to be as bland and give away as little as possible. Most works teams now have a switch which cuts the live audio feed from the crews as they pass the FF, so all the emotional response to a stage has dissipated by the time they get to the stop line.
The crews themselves are just as interesting, the cars are still incredibly spectacular although very efficient too. The engineering is incredible. Almost all the rallies are close competitively, and in general a few crews are in with a shout of win. But somewhere along the line all that seems to be impossible to package and communicate to today's impatient and time-poor audience.
I've no idea what the solution is, I do have WRC All Live but I would say I watch less than 10% of the season on it. I'm almost always keeping an eye on the stage times (via EWRC), and mostly watch the ITV4 highlights show. A lot of the interesting things are found via post-event journalism and podcasts - eg Dirtfish.
We now have 3 drivers from UK/Ireland to follow in WRC1 and one in WRC2, perhaps some more coming in WRC2 / 3 / Junior. We've had a British driver take the WRC title fight to the last round in each of the last 2 years........against (arguably) the best in the world. Remember when Mansell and Hill were plucky losers in F1? The media went crazy.
Some good points raised I can recall keeping up with WRC on bloody Ceefax, setting up the video with Mum and Dad to record rally report then rushing home that afternoon from school to watch it and find out what happened.
I know we cant go back but the drama is lost in a way.
I do not keep up with WRC at all in the ways most do, I will never go anywhere near Dirtfish, canto stand the presenters, maybe might keep up with results, via the main site or ewrc which has become the main place I get data from now.
My opinion is that WRC is not a tv sport, it was only popular here when it first became a big deal in the 70;s but then most sports where big then that are not now like stock cars, rallycross, speedway, hot rods etc, it has all died.
Then we had the big boom because of Richard and Colin then it rapidly disappeared up Loeb and Citroens arse over the next ten years never to return.
Why was it popular in 2000 era, coz it was on Channel 4, we had two guys who seemingly didn't like each other (all rubbish btw) fighting for wins, it just worked, coverage was not that different to now, but it just worked and the only reason you can say is an older time with brits winning, much as I hate to say it no-one is going to be amazed by Evans as they were with McRae, it is not his fault but he is not an interesting guy!!
Plus you had the games they helped amssively.
I know we cant go back but the drama is lost in a way.
I do not keep up with WRC at all in the ways most do, I will never go anywhere near Dirtfish, canto stand the presenters, maybe might keep up with results, via the main site or ewrc which has become the main place I get data from now.
My opinion is that WRC is not a tv sport, it was only popular here when it first became a big deal in the 70;s but then most sports where big then that are not now like stock cars, rallycross, speedway, hot rods etc, it has all died.
Then we had the big boom because of Richard and Colin then it rapidly disappeared up Loeb and Citroens arse over the next ten years never to return.
Why was it popular in 2000 era, coz it was on Channel 4, we had two guys who seemingly didn't like each other (all rubbish btw) fighting for wins, it just worked, coverage was not that different to now, but it just worked and the only reason you can say is an older time with brits winning, much as I hate to say it no-one is going to be amazed by Evans as they were with McRae, it is not his fault but he is not an interesting guy!!
Plus you had the games they helped amssively.
LukeBrown66 said:
The issues raised about drama are not new, it is exactly the same in any motorsport.
I watch motogp avidly and a few years ago Rossi and Marquez had a huge fallout, it was mega, and what did the promoter do, try and dumb it all down as it was overshadowing the title race, I mean WTF you bloody live for this, it is box office! And they wanted none of it, let it last about a week and tried to bury it, it was pathetic management. Social media was exploding and the riders would have been well up for stoking it as the hatred was clear.
F1 did an OK job with the Lewis and Max thing, but those two are so controlled by their teams it is not easy to make it work. But you dont need to try hard in F1 it is SOOOO dull most of the time, the tiniest bit of needle gets everyone talking and its following is staggering considering how crap it is.
There is no rivalry in WRC really, hasn't been for years, Loeb saw to that, taking all the spirit out of the sport totally. the only real characters have gone, Solberg, Marcus, the new guys, I mean I love Ott but he is as bad as Kimi ffs. Hard to promote.
So you need to move away from that, the spectacle is what needs promoting, and I dont know how you do that, it is magical at times, you either need a special driver or a totally new way to promote it.
The drivers do OK, there is emotion there but it is never captured in the way it might be for me
I would counter this slightly - I have been to a couple of WRC press conferences, and the drivers were a good laugh generally. It's been a while, but the last one I went to was Rally GB when Hirvonen retired (2014?) and there was loads of banter between the drivers. Sadly, not a bit of it got broadcast. I think a lot of the issue is from the media outlets and the way they interact with the drivers (and the content they produce), as well as the teams trying to keep a lid on things.I watch motogp avidly and a few years ago Rossi and Marquez had a huge fallout, it was mega, and what did the promoter do, try and dumb it all down as it was overshadowing the title race, I mean WTF you bloody live for this, it is box office! And they wanted none of it, let it last about a week and tried to bury it, it was pathetic management. Social media was exploding and the riders would have been well up for stoking it as the hatred was clear.
F1 did an OK job with the Lewis and Max thing, but those two are so controlled by their teams it is not easy to make it work. But you dont need to try hard in F1 it is SOOOO dull most of the time, the tiniest bit of needle gets everyone talking and its following is staggering considering how crap it is.
There is no rivalry in WRC really, hasn't been for years, Loeb saw to that, taking all the spirit out of the sport totally. the only real characters have gone, Solberg, Marcus, the new guys, I mean I love Ott but he is as bad as Kimi ffs. Hard to promote.
So you need to move away from that, the spectacle is what needs promoting, and I dont know how you do that, it is magical at times, you either need a special driver or a totally new way to promote it.
The drivers do OK, there is emotion there but it is never captured in the way it might be for me
Breen is a decent character and does show some emotion, which is much-needed. Tanak can come across as a bit of a robot. I don't mind that in a way, provided it's presented in the right way. Kimi has shown that the whole "iceman" thing can bring some relief if shown right. The characters are there, but we never really get a chance to see it.
The Loeb and Ogier eras have hurt the image of the WRC in terms of rivalry, but the last two seasons have definitely been hard-fought. The 2017-21 era was probably the most competitive we've seen since pre-Loeb domination. With Ogier stepping back, 2022 should open things up even more, so there could be plenty to talk about on the rivalry front.
thepawbroon said:
Perhaps not a popular opinion, but I think that live coverage has detracted from the drama of WRC.
"Back in the day".....perhaps during the 80s through to early 90s, the main TV coverage was highlights programmes. Perhaps one after each WRC round, and one per night on RallyGB. Due to that, the director had the opportunity to create a compelling TV programme which brought out the drama and the characters.
Now, the live coverage relies on mainly helicopters and in-cars, which are quite frankly, terrible at conveying any drama. You neither hear the cars, nor the crowds, and get very little sense of speed. Almost all drivers now temper their stage-end comments to be as bland and give away as little as possible. Most works teams now have a switch which cuts the live audio feed from the crews as they pass the FF, so all the emotional response to a stage has dissipated by the time they get to the stop line.
The crews themselves are just as interesting, the cars are still incredibly spectacular although very efficient too. The engineering is incredible. Almost all the rallies are close competitively, and in general a few crews are in with a shout of win. But somewhere along the line all that seems to be impossible to package and communicate to today's impatient and time-poor audience.
I've no idea what the solution is, I do have WRC All Live but I would say I watch less than 10% of the season on it. I'm almost always keeping an eye on the stage times (via EWRC), and mostly watch the ITV4 highlights show. A lot of the interesting things are found via post-event journalism and podcasts - eg Dirtfish.
We now have 3 drivers from UK/Ireland to follow in WRC1 and one in WRC2, perhaps some more coming in WRC2 / 3 / Junior. We've had a British driver take the WRC title fight to the last round in each of the last 2 years........against (arguably) the best in the world. Remember when Mansell and Hill were plucky losers in F1? The media went crazy.
I would agree with the above. I've spent quite a lot of time watching old highlight shows to research a book and the quality was significantly higher than what's been broadcast in the UK over the last few years, even though they had a much harder job in terms of getting the footage."Back in the day".....perhaps during the 80s through to early 90s, the main TV coverage was highlights programmes. Perhaps one after each WRC round, and one per night on RallyGB. Due to that, the director had the opportunity to create a compelling TV programme which brought out the drama and the characters.
Now, the live coverage relies on mainly helicopters and in-cars, which are quite frankly, terrible at conveying any drama. You neither hear the cars, nor the crowds, and get very little sense of speed. Almost all drivers now temper their stage-end comments to be as bland and give away as little as possible. Most works teams now have a switch which cuts the live audio feed from the crews as they pass the FF, so all the emotional response to a stage has dissipated by the time they get to the stop line.
The crews themselves are just as interesting, the cars are still incredibly spectacular although very efficient too. The engineering is incredible. Almost all the rallies are close competitively, and in general a few crews are in with a shout of win. But somewhere along the line all that seems to be impossible to package and communicate to today's impatient and time-poor audience.
I've no idea what the solution is, I do have WRC All Live but I would say I watch less than 10% of the season on it. I'm almost always keeping an eye on the stage times (via EWRC), and mostly watch the ITV4 highlights show. A lot of the interesting things are found via post-event journalism and podcasts - eg Dirtfish.
We now have 3 drivers from UK/Ireland to follow in WRC1 and one in WRC2, perhaps some more coming in WRC2 / 3 / Junior. We've had a British driver take the WRC title fight to the last round in each of the last 2 years........against (arguably) the best in the world. Remember when Mansell and Hill were plucky losers in F1? The media went crazy.
When you had the likes of Tony Mason talking to the drivers, then Mark James and others doing the voiceover, they seemed to add a lot more. Mason had a good rapport with a lot of the crews, as he had been there and done it, while Mark James just had a great voice for it. You also had a few of the bigger names from the time getting involved which helped no doubt. They just made you feel like part of the event a lot more.
It's very generic now, with bits of the WRC+ coverage thrown into a package and some pretty lazy voiceovers. There have been a few moderately good videos online recently; with Julian Porter driving a Rally2 car alongside Solberg, and M-Sport making the video about building the Rally3 car. While it's nice to see that stuff, even that lacks real depth and insight. WRC needs to find someone who has plenty of experience and can push in and ask the right questions, and actually offer some insight and proper analysis. I don't think any of the current presenting team (and even a lot of the journos) do that right now. We've seen flashes of it when they've managed to get a driver onboard, but they need someone in that position permanently.
As I've said though, the teams have a big role to play too. A bit of late-90s coverage always sticks in my mind. It was from '98ish I think, when Martin Rowe won his first BRC round for Renault, and the cameras caught a member of the team at the end of the rally, instructing him to sit on the bonnet of the car and handing him the right baseball cap to wear. It showed a sign of things to come, and I think the teams have been allowed to control the drivers and PR side far too much over the last couple of decades. We definitely miss the likes of Kankkunen and Tony Pond, who were more than happy to speak their mind, or give a stupid answer to a stupid question.
AS I have said before., the modern teams are heavily run by PR people, they run any kind of press and the drivers, team personnel are told what to do and say to fit in with the PR, it is why PR people are so mind numbingly out of touch with the world, they only think of money and the image they want not what fans and people want, they two are very very different.
I am sure the drivers and team members are fun, but it is never show because it does not fit the sponsors or rights holders image, this is hiw all sport is now, not just rallying at a professional level.
I am sure the drivers and team members are fun, but it is never show because it does not fit the sponsors or rights holders image, this is hiw all sport is now, not just rallying at a professional level.
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