BAR to run car at Bonneville to test top speed of an F1 car
Discussion
Agree with EricMc on it being a load of tosh but sounds like a bit of interesting fun nonetheless.
No one's mentioned the wheels as being the major aero obsticle in this!
Also, assuming they will raise the ride hieght, I would have thouht they'd still need wings to generate a bit of downforce to prevent lift.
No one's mentioned the wheels as being the major aero obsticle in this!
Also, assuming they will raise the ride hieght, I would have thouht they'd still need wings to generate a bit of downforce to prevent lift.
steviebee said:
Agree with EricMc on it being a load of tosh but sounds like a bit of interesting fun nonetheless.
No one's mentioned the wheels as being the major aero obsticle in this!
Also, assuming they will raise the ride hieght, I would have thouht they'd still need wings to generate a bit of downforce to prevent lift.
Actually it's been mentioned a couple of times, I think the venturi effect of the flat underbelly will produce enough downforce, AFAIK the wings help for grip on cornering.
On an F1 car, wings are a blessing and a nusiance. They are required for cornering but create unwanted drag in a straight line. Very few LSR cars have featured wings for that very reason.
I can only think of Art Arfons' "Green Monster" which featured an aerofoil on struts over the front wheel. Thrust SSC had a tailplane but that was not to create downforce except in an emergency and the nose started to lift. If that happend, hydraulic jacks lifted the rear of the car creating an aerodynamic downforce on the car preventing it from flipping.
>> Edited by Eric Mc on Sunday 17th July 12:01
I can only think of Art Arfons' "Green Monster" which featured an aerofoil on struts over the front wheel. Thrust SSC had a tailplane but that was not to create downforce except in an emergency and the nose started to lift. If that happend, hydraulic jacks lifted the rear of the car creating an aerodynamic downforce on the car preventing it from flipping.
>> Edited by Eric Mc on Sunday 17th July 12:01
John_S4x4 said:
Didn't a old Ferrari F1 (312?) run with no wings, when it raced an IAF jet ? Dunno how fast they went ? What about the other F1 vs Jet plane drag races ? Can somebody dig any info on the speed reached for these ?
Gilles Villenevue raced against an Italian Air Force F-104 Starfighter in his Ferrari 126c with no wings, but that was a short sprint.
www.gillesvilleneuveslotclub.it/istrana.WMV
On the run he had no wings although due to dubious editing they appear as he spins round to drive back, must be magic FIA spec Ferrari wings
>> Edited by FourWheelDrift on Monday 18th July 20:23
FourWheelDrift said:
Didn't a old Ferrari F1 (312?) run with no wings, when it raced an IAF jet ? Dunno how fast they went ? What about the other F1 vs Jet plane drag races ? Can somebody dig any info on the speed reached for these ?
Gilles Villenevue raced against an Italian Air Force F-104 Starfighter in his Ferrari 126c with no wings, but that was a short sprint.
www.gillesvilleneuveslotclub.it/istrana.WMV
On the run he had no wings although due to dubious editing they appear as he spins round to drive back, must be magic FIA spec Ferrari wings
>> Edited by FourWheelDrift on Monday 18th July 20:23
A lot of F1 cars from this era ran races without front wings, relying on ground effect for downforce (or suction??). There was one car I'm sure although I can't recall, that appeared to have no wings whatsoever. I think it may have been a Ligier but not sure.
In 1979 Arrows, Lotus and Liger ran "wingless" GP cars relying almots entirely on underfloor aerodynamics for downforce. To be honest, all of these cars featured very low set vestigal rear aerofoils almost level with the top of the rear wheels supported by substantial "fins" which themselves were extensions of the sidpods.
The only one of these cars which seemed to be any good at all was, surprisingly, the Ligier. Lotus abandoned their car (the 80) and reverted to the 79. Although they didn't realise it at thetime, Lotus had already won their last World Championship.
>> Edited by Eric Mc on Wednesday 20th July 08:36
The only one of these cars which seemed to be any good at all was, surprisingly, the Ligier. Lotus abandoned their car (the 80) and reverted to the 79. Although they didn't realise it at thetime, Lotus had already won their last World Championship.
>> Edited by Eric Mc on Wednesday 20th July 08:36
Bit of an update, their target is to break 400kmh, (248mph).
www.formula1.com/news/3522.html
Still using a track legal FIA spec car.
www.formula1.com/news/3522.html
Still using a track legal FIA spec car.
Eric Mc said:
Does this qualify as the most useless speed record ever set.
Who does it impress?
What did it prove?
What a strange argument? It proves exactly as much as 20 men driving round asphalt to get only back to where they started again. Yes there are other people to contest on thata asphalt, but other F1 cars have looked at their top speeds.
It serves mainly as PR exercise, of course, but simply as a techincal and enginerring example of how fast F1 cars in accordance with current regulations can go. Nothing more. Nothing less. And neither does it claim to be.
By your very same argument, everything must have a purpose for it be a valid thing to do.
FourWheelDrift said:
Bit of an update, their target is to break 400kmh, (248mph).
www.formula1.com/news/3522.html
Still using a track legal FIA spec car.
Have a look at the site. You'll notice in the photo that the rear wing has been removed and replaced with a vertical "rudder" as they call it.
The point I was making is that it is a record that no-one apart from BAR seemed to be at all interested in. Other speed records are part of FIA classes, such as absolute World Speed Records, fastest wheel driven vehicle, etc etc. I actually am a big fan of Speed Record cars and would love to go to Bonneville Speed Week some day.
This "record" is just a load of Honda inspired hype - nothing more, nothing less. I reckon a 1930s GP car could ourtstrip a modern F1 car on a salt flat. Outright speed was never what F1 was about and this run proves nothing.
This "record" is just a load of Honda inspired hype - nothing more, nothing less. I reckon a 1930s GP car could ourtstrip a modern F1 car on a salt flat. Outright speed was never what F1 was about and this run proves nothing.
FourWheelDrift said:
Still using a track legal FIA spec car.
Not knocking what they're doing - it's good PR for them and vaguely interesting to see how fast an F1 car can really go ... however ...
How "FIA spec" (whatever that actually means) is it, in fact?
Presumably they have had to change the gearing to achieve the top speed - I guess the F1 rules do not car what gearing a car runs?
They seem to have also fiddled with the rear wing - surely that means it could NOT enter an F1 race?
Anything else?
400km/h doesn't seem terribly high for a 600kg car with 900PS. The 400km/h barrier was broken at Le Mans over 15 years ago - in a 24 hour race, with corners, traffic etc - first by Roger Dorchy in the WM Peugeot (which, admittedly, was only built for Mulsanne), then regularly by the Sauber Mercedes C9s. In Le Mans race conditions they had about 650PS at the most - and about 2 tonnes of drag-inducing downforce.
Still, the majority of people won't know that, so I guess it's good PR...
Still, the majority of people won't know that, so I guess it's good PR...
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