Oulton Park - What happened?
Discussion
Now, before writing this post, I'd like to say that I'm a HUGE fan of Britcar, and believe it's pretty much exactly what national level endurance racing should be.
But what on earth happened at Oulton park today? That is quite possibly the worst race meeting I have ever been to in my life. Britsports was OK, and pretty enjoyable towards the end, but the Britcar race was awful. A 12 car grid (admitedly with some withdrawals for mechanical reasons on the day) and very little 'racing' going on. I appreciate that there's a 24-hour race coming up, but there was a very good entry list printed in the programme, and at least 10 cars didn't even turn up at the circuit. It's the first race I have ever fallen asleep in. Ever. It's a shame, because a lot of people there today will be seeing Britcar for the first time, and will think it's a poorly supported, generally crap series. Which we all now it isn't. IMHO, it's the best series in Britain at the moment. But it really needs to avoid a repeat of this weekend. None of the spectators I spoke to was very happy, and neither were the commentators or marshalls. One of the commentators actually cheered as the chequered flag dropped.
On the plus side, well done to 911virgin.com on second place, and Domonic Levnievski on an absolutely storming drive in Britsports
But what on earth happened at Oulton park today? That is quite possibly the worst race meeting I have ever been to in my life. Britsports was OK, and pretty enjoyable towards the end, but the Britcar race was awful. A 12 car grid (admitedly with some withdrawals for mechanical reasons on the day) and very little 'racing' going on. I appreciate that there's a 24-hour race coming up, but there was a very good entry list printed in the programme, and at least 10 cars didn't even turn up at the circuit. It's the first race I have ever fallen asleep in. Ever. It's a shame, because a lot of people there today will be seeing Britcar for the first time, and will think it's a poorly supported, generally crap series. Which we all now it isn't. IMHO, it's the best series in Britain at the moment. But it really needs to avoid a repeat of this weekend. None of the spectators I spoke to was very happy, and neither were the commentators or marshalls. One of the commentators actually cheered as the chequered flag dropped.
On the plus side, well done to 911virgin.com on second place, and Domonic Levnievski on an absolutely storming drive in Britsports
As you say pre 24Hrs.
What was the Production S1 race like to watch, I was in the commentry box so had a different perspective on the Production S1 race, was it the closer of all the days races?
Of all the tracks the EERC has visted this year, Oulton had the best turnout and unfortunatley hasn't quite give the series the advert it deserves.
What was the Production S1 race like to watch, I was in the commentry box so had a different perspective on the Production S1 race, was it the closer of all the days races?
Of all the tracks the EERC has visted this year, Oulton had the best turnout and unfortunatley hasn't quite give the series the advert it deserves.
I think the 24 hour race looming probably put a few people off, Oulton Park does have something of a reputation as a place to take your car and smash it up. I don`t know if you`ve ever driven round the circuit but there are some very fast corners with no run off and fierce braking areas where a slipped foot or missed gear change will result in your car going straight into the barrier.
We are going to do all the Britcar rounds this year and so Oulton was just another outing. Pete knows the track like his right hand knows his manhood, sadly having never raced this circuit I was about as familiar with the track as I am with the contents of Liz Hurley`s tight black dress - although there was this one time when she came round and asked me if would.......
I`m not sure a few people aren`t starting to get a bit tired of the class structure (or lack of it) as well. At the top of the tree you have people like Callum Lockie, a man who clearly knows how to drive a car trying to comepete against a 360 Modena in his 360 challenge car when the modena is probably 4 or 5 seconds a lap quicker in real time (check out the British GT results as an example). Then cars like the Astra DTM, Falcon, Noble and 993 RS come along and are put against cup class cars despite James` assurances that wouldn`t happen.
We`re using the year to learn about endurance racing and from the outset have taken the club rules as law. That`s why our GT3 is a couple of seconds a lap slower, class 2 max power was set at 380bhp so we run at 370 when if we wanted to we could build a car that looked the same but had circa 450bhp, and easily see 400 or 410bhp from our current engine. Sadly there are cars in class 2 producing in the region of 450 and yet they get away with it.
We even watched as a team added an extra 20 litres of fuel to their re-fuelling churns just before the car came in for a pitstop so as to alleviate the need for a second pit stop when the rules clearly state 50 litres per stop.
All these discrepancies mean the serious teams simply won`t compete, they pop in for a quick play or use it as a bit of a run out for a semi-retired driver but they won`t and can`t (because they earn their living from motorsport), enter the full season and be judged by the results.
We are in a dilemma, we love the format of Britcar and the teams are friendly with good paddock banter but we can`t afford to spend money building the perfect car for it`s class when the goalposts keep getting moved.
As it was the wind was knocked out of our sails when we were awarded 2nd in class (1) following yet another of James Tucker`s famous mid-race class changes (without actually telling the team !), rather than our correct 1st in class (2) and second overall. You will note from MST that the clerk of the course has re-issued the results so as to correctly show us winning class.
For us a fantastic weekend (race report to follow), and a morale booster prior to the 24 hour.
To all the people who did turn up thank`s for your support and friendly waving at the end of the race !
Keep smiling.
Henry
We are going to do all the Britcar rounds this year and so Oulton was just another outing. Pete knows the track like his right hand knows his manhood, sadly having never raced this circuit I was about as familiar with the track as I am with the contents of Liz Hurley`s tight black dress - although there was this one time when she came round and asked me if would.......
I`m not sure a few people aren`t starting to get a bit tired of the class structure (or lack of it) as well. At the top of the tree you have people like Callum Lockie, a man who clearly knows how to drive a car trying to comepete against a 360 Modena in his 360 challenge car when the modena is probably 4 or 5 seconds a lap quicker in real time (check out the British GT results as an example). Then cars like the Astra DTM, Falcon, Noble and 993 RS come along and are put against cup class cars despite James` assurances that wouldn`t happen.
We`re using the year to learn about endurance racing and from the outset have taken the club rules as law. That`s why our GT3 is a couple of seconds a lap slower, class 2 max power was set at 380bhp so we run at 370 when if we wanted to we could build a car that looked the same but had circa 450bhp, and easily see 400 or 410bhp from our current engine. Sadly there are cars in class 2 producing in the region of 450 and yet they get away with it.
We even watched as a team added an extra 20 litres of fuel to their re-fuelling churns just before the car came in for a pitstop so as to alleviate the need for a second pit stop when the rules clearly state 50 litres per stop.
All these discrepancies mean the serious teams simply won`t compete, they pop in for a quick play or use it as a bit of a run out for a semi-retired driver but they won`t and can`t (because they earn their living from motorsport), enter the full season and be judged by the results.
We are in a dilemma, we love the format of Britcar and the teams are friendly with good paddock banter but we can`t afford to spend money building the perfect car for it`s class when the goalposts keep getting moved.
As it was the wind was knocked out of our sails when we were awarded 2nd in class (1) following yet another of James Tucker`s famous mid-race class changes (without actually telling the team !), rather than our correct 1st in class (2) and second overall. You will note from MST that the clerk of the course has re-issued the results so as to correctly show us winning class.
For us a fantastic weekend (race report to follow), and a morale booster prior to the 24 hour.
To all the people who did turn up thank`s for your support and friendly waving at the end of the race !
Keep smiling.
Henry
Just one other point, I think one of the problems with spectating endurance races is that it`s easy to loose sight of people`s relative positions during the race. The excitement isn`t so much to do with trading paint but on slowly making ground and using pit tactics to get ahead. Even with 6 minutes to go we very nearly ran out of fuel and had to sit for a minute (you can`t just splash & dash), trying to work out if we would lose our position. If you have access to a timing screen or can hear the commentry then the race takes on a whole new light.
The answer is radio transmision for the commentry and even transmitting the real-time MST race timing screen on a local wi-fi hotspot network so anyone with a laptop can pick it up and be fully up to speed with the action. To watch the race from an exciting vantage point, listen on the radio and see the positions and times of each car on screen would transform the experience.
Henry
The answer is radio transmision for the commentry and even transmitting the real-time MST race timing screen on a local wi-fi hotspot network so anyone with a laptop can pick it up and be fully up to speed with the action. To watch the race from an exciting vantage point, listen on the radio and see the positions and times of each car on screen would transform the experience.
Henry
I agree with the last bit about what is needed to keep the interest during the race, without a timing screen, it's almost impossible to know what's going on...
I personally had a race from hell, but still enjoyed the weekend mostly because of the others around the pit lane and the general friendly atmosphere.
I agree the classes are somewhat messed up, but with the way things are going, I suspect that next year when it’s a registered championship, things will have settled down somewhat. That said, you are always going to have the problem of people spending money to get themselves up the grid, then cross this with massive variance in driver abilities means that it’s almost impossible to get a level playing field. You only have to see what goes on in other championships to see that they all suffer this to some extent, and having a rule to cover everything is pointless unless you have the means and capability to enforce them.
Anyway, back to sulking….
Simon
I personally had a race from hell, but still enjoyed the weekend mostly because of the others around the pit lane and the general friendly atmosphere.
I agree the classes are somewhat messed up, but with the way things are going, I suspect that next year when it’s a registered championship, things will have settled down somewhat. That said, you are always going to have the problem of people spending money to get themselves up the grid, then cross this with massive variance in driver abilities means that it’s almost impossible to get a level playing field. You only have to see what goes on in other championships to see that they all suffer this to some extent, and having a rule to cover everything is pointless unless you have the means and capability to enforce them.
Anyway, back to sulking….
Simon
I don't find the confusion of spectating on endurance races a problem. I find in some ways it adds to the drama, because there's always a point (usually around everybodies last pitstop) where it all becomes clear, and you can see exactly who's battling who. As I say, I love Britcar/Britsports, and have enjoyed every previous meeting. Henry, I wasn't aware that the class structure was quite that loose! I do think that is the one area the series needs to improve, it's promotion, PR and organisation. As you say, putting 911 GT3 Cup cars up against something like a Noble, which weighs less and has a fair bit more power, is slightly unfair. How that's going to work at the 24 hours, with a lot of British GT teams turning up, I don't know.
Simon, what was the problem with your car? Was going bloody quickly when it was running
Simon, what was the problem with your car? Was going bloody quickly when it was running
Buggered up my own race this weekend,and messed up my Co drivers, as stupidly, and purely as a result of pilot error, I went from 8000rpm (max) in 4th to bloody 3rd instead of 5th. The poor engine must of hit 15000rpm 
,then blew it's self to bits. My only mitigating defence was that we weren't running our normal gearbox and the one we ran had a spring loaded 5th and the original doesn't, but I should have checked it out but didn't, so down to me really.
This could now seriously effect our ability budget wise to enter the 24 hour, for now we have to buy a new engine, new motorsport cams etc and who knows what else, and I think it will take the funds well into the red, no funds means no racing.
God almighty, our passions can be so depressing at times can't they??
,then blew it's self to bits. My only mitigating defence was that we weren't running our normal gearbox and the one we ran had a spring loaded 5th and the original doesn't, but I should have checked it out but didn't, so down to me really. This could now seriously effect our ability budget wise to enter the 24 hour, for now we have to buy a new engine, new motorsport cams etc and who knows what else, and I think it will take the funds well into the red, no funds means no racing.
God almighty, our passions can be so depressing at times can't they??
the dj 27 said:
Simon, what was the problem with your car? Was going bloody quickly when it was running
err - Plain and simple stupiditidy
short version...
green-flag lap, noticed bad vibration, like loose wheel?
can into pit lane, dived out to check, then others jumped in to help....
in the ensuing confusion, a wheel stud got sheared off (by which time I had alredy jumped back into the car, then re-joined just ahead of the lead car.
after a few laps he (the Noble) caught me up, so I duely let him pass and decided to stick with him and wait for him and the others to pit...
lap 8 I came passed the pitlane to see the black and orange flag out with my number, Oh great
pulled in on lap 9, only to be told we had to change said wheel stud......
now, on an Elise, this is not a five minute job, you have to remove the brakes, then the upright, then unbolt the flange retaining bolt, press out the flange from the bearing, before you can get at the back of the studs.... all this with the disk at 500C etc!
fortunatly, one of the teams there had a 10 tonne press in the back of their truck, otherwise we would have been stuffed. (many thanks to them!)
in total, the job took ~25 minutes, then a quick top up of the fuel, and sent Chris out to just finnish the car, at this point we were some 18 laps down, however, a finnish was parramount.
we finnished in the pit lane as Chris could see the leader comming round to take the flag, so he slowed down and (as he thought) went down the pit lane after the leader went passed the entrance, thus would reach the line first.
we were then finnaly rewarded with a DNF
as apparently we triped the line 5 sec's before the leader??? all in all, a total cocked up weekend....
on a brighter note, car ran 100% perfect, and was well on the pace, just human error etc screwed it all up...
we have now to get all this stuff squared away for the 24H, cannot afford this type of mess-up then...
>> Edited by scuffham on Sunday 7th August 21:23
scuffham said:
Simon, what was the problem with your car? Was going bloody quickly when it was running
after a few laps he (the Noble) caught me up, so I duely let him pass and decided to stick with him and wait for him and the others to pit...
>> Edited by scuffham on Sunday 7th August 21:23
The Noble was actually behind you for about 4 laps before you let it through. You didn't seem to be holding him up though, as we commented on how rapid the Elise was to be keeping the Noble easily behind. Just how breathed on is the Civic Type-R motor in the back of the car?
the dj 27 said:
The Noble was actually behind you for about 4 laps before you let it through. You didn't seem to be holding him up though, as we commented on how rapid the Elise was to be keeping the Noble easily behind. Just how breathed on is the Civic Type-R motor in the back of the car?
not at all, it's a stock scrapyard engine with zero internal mods. (although quite a few external changes)
Noble was somewhat faster in a straight line, but seems to have less brakes and it's high-speed handling is not up to the Elise.
can only bemone what could have been without the cockups.... (we only had to stop once (mandatory) I think everybody else had to stop for fuel twice...)
>> Edited by scuffham on Sunday 7th August 23:21
the dj 27 said:
You could have a potentially race winning car there with a bit of tuning. A Hondata ECU gives huge gains on a CTR engine (40bhp at 6,000 rpm, i.e, the V-Tec point) for about £600 or so. Come's pre-mapped as well, so no rolling road sessions
if you belive all that bull then fair do's, but in the reality of racing, it's nothing like that simple...
ECU is already custom mapped for the application (Elise) with an optimised manifold etc.
the idea that one flash fit's all is a joke, if only it was this simple..
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I have spend a few years workingon Honda engine transplants into the Elise (I also make the most widely used kit for this) and I have heard just about every bit of bull you can imagine, wonder tuning bit's that give mega BHP etc etc, most are total snake oil. Hondata's KPro Manager is a useful tool, and enables you to run a proper map for the application, but it's no magic bullet to the untimate any more than any other ECU is (and aftermarket ones for the K20 are way more flexible).
sad part is that people love to here this stuff and will spend their hard earned anyway....
One of the reasons I am running this car is to show what can be done with sencible stuff, not snake oil solutions.
Just finished 'playing' with my photos from the weekend and have only just seen ths thread. I can fully concur with the views of the_dj_27. I too love the EERC series and have been to every round this season. I was thoroughly looking forward to visiting Oulton for the first time in about 10 years (it's certainly changed a bit!) and was pleasantly surprised when I walked around the pits and paddock to see the Corvette, an F40, Rod's BeeEm and the Top Cats TVR along with our resident PHers, Henry and Simon (nice to meet you at last, Simon!).
Very disappointed therefore to find out that the F40 was gonna be a DNS along with Rod's Z3. Then the 'Vette managed a full half lap, the Cole brothers 360 got round the first corner this week without any drama but disappeared very quickly afterwards and one of the M3s died.
Seems to me that what Henry said about James Tucker's mid-season, mid-race, mid-whatever rule and class changes are very counter-productive to the series and can't help with the stability of things. It's hard enough for a spectator to keep up with who's in which class, let alone the teams and drivers!
I appreciate that we're only 4 weeks or so from the most important race of the year so maybe it would be better next season to leave 5-6 weeks free before the 24 hours as opposed to running, quite frankly, the most pathetic excuse of an endrance I've seen since the demise of the WSC in the early '90s. The good people of the North West who turned up in pretty good numbers can't have been that impressed. Even Brian Jones commented that it was certainly an endurance race for the crowd...
On a more positive note, Simon, the Elise was looking bloody good and was definitely on a good pace with the new boots on. Thank Chris for spinning in front of me exiting Knickerbrook please. Most exciting thing that happened all race! Henry, well done on yours and Pete's 2nd place. Shame Bill Cameron couldn't have driven the whole race for Parr eh! And to TopCats, that TVR looked very spectacular, wagging it's inside wheel in the air at any given opportunity!
Looking forward to September!
Some pics...
And even the marshalls were bored!
Very disappointed therefore to find out that the F40 was gonna be a DNS along with Rod's Z3. Then the 'Vette managed a full half lap, the Cole brothers 360 got round the first corner this week without any drama but disappeared very quickly afterwards and one of the M3s died.
Seems to me that what Henry said about James Tucker's mid-season, mid-race, mid-whatever rule and class changes are very counter-productive to the series and can't help with the stability of things. It's hard enough for a spectator to keep up with who's in which class, let alone the teams and drivers!
I appreciate that we're only 4 weeks or so from the most important race of the year so maybe it would be better next season to leave 5-6 weeks free before the 24 hours as opposed to running, quite frankly, the most pathetic excuse of an endrance I've seen since the demise of the WSC in the early '90s. The good people of the North West who turned up in pretty good numbers can't have been that impressed. Even Brian Jones commented that it was certainly an endurance race for the crowd...
On a more positive note, Simon, the Elise was looking bloody good and was definitely on a good pace with the new boots on. Thank Chris for spinning in front of me exiting Knickerbrook please. Most exciting thing that happened all race! Henry, well done on yours and Pete's 2nd place. Shame Bill Cameron couldn't have driven the whole race for Parr eh! And to TopCats, that TVR looked very spectacular, wagging it's inside wheel in the air at any given opportunity!
Looking forward to September!
Some pics...
And even the marshalls were bored!
The Britsports race was more entertaining, as was the Production S1 encounter. A few more numbers helped here as well some good battles throughout the fields. Nice to see Anna Waleska can peddle an M3 as fast as a 355 (harsh but fair methinks 
.
Anyway, Will (aka 600), good to meet you and your Dad. Good run in the race to 6th. Some pics for you. See you next time.
. Anyway, Will (aka 600), good to meet you and your Dad. Good run in the race to 6th. Some pics for you. See you next time.
Nice to meet you at the weekend Trackside.. Once again you got some great shots. Quite a frustrating race for us really. We were 2nd in class at the pitstop and the car wouldn't start up again! We ended up having several attempts to bump start down the pitlane before it finally fired up- we rejoined 8th in class. Somehow we managed to salvage 4th in class though.. so it wasn't all bad.
See you at Silverstone!
Will
See you at Silverstone!
Will
I think you will struggle for marshals.
At Oulton Park, we were so short of marshals, 3 of us stepped down from Rescue unit to man Shell corner. I was flagging on the 'In'.
We manned the corner with 4 marshals. Normally we would have had 10.
What happened to Calum Lockie? His name was plastered all over the programme??
I received so much flack for promoting this event to our marshals, many of them will not marshal another EERC meeting ever again.
2 hours without a toilet break...come on!!
Ian
At Oulton Park, we were so short of marshals, 3 of us stepped down from Rescue unit to man Shell corner. I was flagging on the 'In'.
We manned the corner with 4 marshals. Normally we would have had 10.
What happened to Calum Lockie? His name was plastered all over the programme??
I received so much flack for promoting this event to our marshals, many of them will not marshal another EERC meeting ever again.
2 hours without a toilet break...come on!!
Ian
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