RE: Group Therapy
Discussion
Andrew Noakes said:
the engine wasn't based on a cut-down Rover V8, but was based on the Cosworth GA if I remember rightly
No - the V6 4V engine in the Metro was a 90-degree V6, the GA was a 60-degree V6. But... the valve gear on the Metro engine used a lot of Cosworth DFV componentry
Ah. My apologies.
6R4 - I thought the prototypes did use an engine based on the trusty Rover V8; but the production cars used a brand new V6 which later powered the Jaguar XJR10/11 group C cars.
There used to be a chap in Broadway, Worcestershire who had an original 6R4 with a Rover V8. The original V6 engine apparently was sold to David Appleby.
Not sure who this chap in Broadway was but may be someone here may know more!
There used to be a chap in Broadway, Worcestershire who had an original 6R4 with a Rover V8. The original V6 engine apparently was sold to David Appleby.
Not sure who this chap in Broadway was but may be someone here may know more!
grandchris said:
I thought the prototypes did use an engine based on the trusty Rover V8; but the production cars used a brand new V6 which later powered the Jaguar XJR10/11 group C cars
As I understand it the original prototype engine was a Rover V8 which had been hacked about to make a V6. The production cars had a proper engine based on that design but obviously with lots of new bits - block, heads, crank, camshafts etc.
TWR acquired the engine around 1988 and turbocharged it for the XJR-10/11/16/17 and later the XJ220 production car.
>> Edited by Andrew Noakes on Thursday 18th August 11:44
I've got a couple of vids of 6R4 - in the early shots of Tony Pond kicking the original two prototypes round Gaydon and indeed on the first couple of rallies he refers to the V62V engine. This was the cut down Rover V8 which was used purely as proof of concept and to get the chassis development under way until the bespoke V64V engine was redy for use. The only parts the V64V used which were not bespoke was the valve gear which I understand (and mentioned earlier in the thread) drew heavily (if not copied directly) on those of the Cosworth DFV.
Wasn't the GA actually the GAA - a quad cam (all alloy?) engined based on the design of the Essex V6? Tony Proctor ran one in his Rallycross Capri and it also powered a number of single seaters and sportscars IIRC.
The 6R4 engine did indeed power the XJ220 but I think that it was Jaguar who decreed the choice for cost reasons - having engineered the car for the V12 and trousered a stackload of £50k deposits on that basis, they then bolted in the V6 much to the chagrin of many of the deposit placers.
The 6R4 engine did indeed power the XJ220 but I think that it was Jaguar who decreed the choice for cost reasons - having engineered the car for the V12 and trousered a stackload of £50k deposits on that basis, they then bolted in the V6 much to the chagrin of many of the deposit placers.
rubystone said:
The 6R4 engine did indeed power the XJ220 but I think that it was Jaguar who decreed the choice for cost reasons - having engineered the car for the V12 and trousered a stackload of £50k deposits on that basis, they then bolted in the V6 much to the chagrin of many of the deposit placers.
TWR completely reengineered the XJ220: the production car was smaller (9in shorter) and lighter. I'd guess the choice of the V6 was made on weight grounds.
Way off topic, but... the four-cam V12 in the XJ220 prototype sired a one-off road version, which went into Tom Walkinshaw's personal Aston DB7 - years before the DB7 Vantage appeared.
rubystone said:I should think that it will have been posted somewhere on these hallowed pages already, but the "seminar" type thing he gave on Sunday was fascinating. Look out for the Melling Speed8 and Melling Speed12 cars in the near future...
I met Al at the motor show in 199something when TVR first aired that AJP8 - seriously impressive piece of kit and he is clearly a genius, although the engine had a massive gestation period before it made it into a production car!
grandchris said:We, my company, bought a 6R4 for 'corporate entertainment' reasons (accountant said we could get away with it) and ran it for several years until it was sold a few months ago. During it's time with us it was re-shelled and I have photos of it during rebuild for anyone who's interested.
Are there any "Group B" owners on this site?
Over the last two years I've had the pleasure twice of meeting (and having a meal with), Walter Rohrl and his wife, Monika, at his home. The amazing coincidence as to how this happened is too long to go into, but suffice to say that I consider myself one lucky man.
Despite his reputation for being outspoken and difficult to work with, I found him to be one of the nicest and most unassuming men I've ever met, in spite of being a double World Rally Champion.
He is now a super-fit mid fifties guy with another dream job, and a wonderful life.
Having been a long term fan from the seventies, I asked him all the questions that I'd wondered over the years.
About the prototype Quattro with the early sequential box that he drove in the RAC Rally in around '82?
I remembered seeing some in-car footage at the time and thought it was awesome.
Walter reckons that car was 580 bhp, and that his navigator Phil Short was violently sick at the end of each stage as he couldn't stand the violent acceleration and braking, even though he'd been a works nav. for years, he'd never experienced anything like it.
The Pikes Peak Quattro was something to behold, as anyone who's seen the DVD of "Race to the Clouds " will testify. He has some jaw-dropping tales to tell about that experience.
Walter's favourite all time rally car to drive was the Lancia 037, and his favourite race car was the lunatic Trans-Am Audi 200 that he did the North American series in, with 600 + bhp and FWD.
He started rallying in a Fiat 850 Coupe, on German Road events.
At the Goodwood Festival of Speed in 2003, he drove the Sunoco 917 open car, which has 1000bhp and a 4 speed box, and came back into the paddock telling us that, because he had forgotten his full face helmet, and was using his open face one, the air stream was going inside his helmet and forcing his sunglasses off, so there he was at 140 mph driving with one hand and holding his sunglasses on with the other......
Oh if I had half the talent..................
Despite his reputation for being outspoken and difficult to work with, I found him to be one of the nicest and most unassuming men I've ever met, in spite of being a double World Rally Champion.
He is now a super-fit mid fifties guy with another dream job, and a wonderful life.
Having been a long term fan from the seventies, I asked him all the questions that I'd wondered over the years.
About the prototype Quattro with the early sequential box that he drove in the RAC Rally in around '82?
I remembered seeing some in-car footage at the time and thought it was awesome.
Walter reckons that car was 580 bhp, and that his navigator Phil Short was violently sick at the end of each stage as he couldn't stand the violent acceleration and braking, even though he'd been a works nav. for years, he'd never experienced anything like it.
The Pikes Peak Quattro was something to behold, as anyone who's seen the DVD of "Race to the Clouds " will testify. He has some jaw-dropping tales to tell about that experience.
Walter's favourite all time rally car to drive was the Lancia 037, and his favourite race car was the lunatic Trans-Am Audi 200 that he did the North American series in, with 600 + bhp and FWD.
He started rallying in a Fiat 850 Coupe, on German Road events.
At the Goodwood Festival of Speed in 2003, he drove the Sunoco 917 open car, which has 1000bhp and a 4 speed box, and came back into the paddock telling us that, because he had forgotten his full face helmet, and was using his open face one, the air stream was going inside his helmet and forcing his sunglasses off, so there he was at 140 mph driving with one hand and holding his sunglasses on with the other......
Oh if I had half the talent..................
Yep, the S1s on the '85 RAC were quite incredible. I only did Weston Park (because I was only 12 and my parents weren't keen on letting me have time off school...), but the noise was like nothing else - not even other quattros. While the Peugeots etc were passing us we could hear the S1s starting the stage because the violent pops and bangs echoed around the trees, so when they finally reached us the sound, combined with the 5-pot revving to a scarcely believable 10krpm, was almost blood-curdling.
Right, that's it, after Absolute Power has finished later on I'm going to put my Rally Supercars video on and watch quattros and Rohrl's feet dancing on the pedals...
Right, that's it, after Absolute Power has finished later on I'm going to put my Rally Supercars video on and watch quattros and Rohrl's feet dancing on the pedals...
Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff