Before all the venues disappear...
Discussion
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
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However I wonder if it is possible to create a temporary race circuit at one of these venue that could be licenced to hold races…?
It would be prohibitively expensive to set up a temporary race track. I was involved with a feasibility study for a possible race meeting(s) on a private airfield, the track itself wasn't the issue it was the infrastructure needed to get it to run that was the issue, bearing in mind the cost of taking it down again so the airfield could be used less than 24 hours later.However I wonder if it is possible to create a temporary race circuit at one of these venue that could be licenced to hold races…?
Drumroll said:
It would be prohibitively expensive to set up a temporary race track. I was involved with a feasibility study for a possible race meeting(s) on a private airfield, the track itself wasn't the issue it was the infrastructure needed to get it to run that was the issue, bearing in mind the cost of taking it down again so the airfield could be used less than 24 hours later.
Surely that is if you are trying to make an international track. A clubbie style track like Lydden wouldn’t need much more than a paddock office and some traffic lights. In reality maybe the MSUK need to redefine what is actually required on an airfield where there nothing to hit, and maybe no speccies. It was done for many years at RAF Rufforth (if you want to read the story PM me for an article I wrote on its history ) . It was literally a pop up circuit, with Armco, oil barrel corner markers and ropes going up on Friday night. Ad hoc racing happened at RAF Linton on Ouse (when a competing serviceman was killed )and RAF Catterick (where parked cars on the old A1 , adjacent to the track , meant it was a one off ). RAF Dishforth , only a mile or two from Topcliffe hes been used recently for low key drag meeting , without spectators .
I don't see a lack of venues as a problem in the UK - we have a more than healthy number of locations - a far bigger problem is getting people who claim to enjoy motor sport off their lazy arses in front of the telly to actually watch motor sport live .
I don't see a lack of venues as a problem in the UK - we have a more than healthy number of locations - a far bigger problem is getting people who claim to enjoy motor sport off their lazy arses in front of the telly to actually watch motor sport live .
I know several people who competed/ marshalled or organised the Rufforth events. But you could never use oil drums and ropes etc to mark out a track nowadays.
Big bales whilst acceptable at the FOS, was not when we did the feasibility study acceptable, although it was allowed for some marshal points. The area that really made the cost silly was making a pit area safe. Something that isn't an issue for sprints, rallies and autotests.
Big bales whilst acceptable at the FOS, was not when we did the feasibility study acceptable, although it was allowed for some marshal points. The area that really made the cost silly was making a pit area safe. Something that isn't an issue for sprints, rallies and autotests.
I know of these airfields quite well having grown up in Harrogate.
A pop up circuit is what I would be thinking, for racing I think there is a dearth of venues, especially in outlying areas like the Southwest or Scotland. So using MOD land to create venues including temporary race tracks is important.
I have no interest in whether anyone comes to spectate at club events, if that’s the venues fault it’ll be to do with not allowing organising clubs to keep the gate receipts.
Maybe a temporary circuit will be cheap to create, maybe it got more accessible both in terms of cost and location
Also motorcycle racing seems to get away with very low rent circuits, route 66 at Elvington or Darley Dale.
So it sounds like making a paddock area safe is just because you’ve located it the wrong area, or need a better airfield more pre disposed for racing
A pop up circuit is what I would be thinking, for racing I think there is a dearth of venues, especially in outlying areas like the Southwest or Scotland. So using MOD land to create venues including temporary race tracks is important.
I have no interest in whether anyone comes to spectate at club events, if that’s the venues fault it’ll be to do with not allowing organising clubs to keep the gate receipts.
Maybe a temporary circuit will be cheap to create, maybe it got more accessible both in terms of cost and location
Also motorcycle racing seems to get away with very low rent circuits, route 66 at Elvington or Darley Dale.
So it sounds like making a paddock area safe is just because you’ve located it the wrong area, or need a better airfield more pre disposed for racing
Edited by Dynion Araf Uchaf on Saturday 14th January 08:32
Edited by Dynion Araf Uchaf on Saturday 14th January 08:34
Quite how March gets away with bales is beyond me considering the number of accidents that happen there routinely. And let's remember people have been killed there aswell. I suspect because it is not a proper event so runs on a different sort of event licence.
As for running at airfields, there are so many issues linked with anything like this and multi car including the site access hence why a lot of them are only used for track days and things like sprints.
As for running at airfields, there are so many issues linked with anything like this and multi car including the site access hence why a lot of them are only used for track days and things like sprints.
I noticed Op you haven't been to Lydden Hill or Rallycross .
I have completely lost touch with world RX over the last few years so I Googled it .
World RX is returning to Lydden and some others of the traditional venues ,the venue in Belgium ,at Mettet is back too after Spa had it for a couple of years .
I would get down to Lydden this year before it gets dropped again for some silly £££ reason .
I also went to Mettet 3 times ,it's a good little venue and popular with the Belgians .
I have completely lost touch with world RX over the last few years so I Googled it .
World RX is returning to Lydden and some others of the traditional venues ,the venue in Belgium ,at Mettet is back too after Spa had it for a couple of years .
I would get down to Lydden this year before it gets dropped again for some silly £££ reason .
I also went to Mettet 3 times ,it's a good little venue and popular with the Belgians .
To go OT slightly
Rallycross was completely ruined by a company called IMG a few years ago, they basically bought it stock and barrel, marketed it, slapped a logo on it, made a bunch of money and did some very good stuff initially, it was becoming a rival to WEC and BTCC and maybe second only to the very top level stuff in terms of popularity.
But what they also did was take it away from a lot of emerging areas in the East of Europe who could not afford the hosting fees and break even, even away from Belgium and Holland who also could not make it pay, and the nail in the coffin here was taking it away from Lydden, basically by trying to build their own track at Silverstone, and building some kind of FoS type event round it. It was a total and utter disaster, they failed to realise that they would have to hire the entire venue, so it cost them a bunch, so, tickets prices were ridiculous, the track was bang average and it flopped. and the circuit is dormant now and Crapperstone dont care as they didn't pay for it!! or not all of it.
Then, they tried to go electric far too early, at the time they had Ford, VW, Citroen and a few other semi works people there, they pretty much all pulled out and then IMG just bailed and left it to rot, which it is doing now, top series is all electric with about 10 cars, and supports are normal with some other rubbish, run by same people as WRC which means it is behind a paywall so nobody watches it and crowds are pathetic, meaning venues make little money.
The sport was ruined in this country a long time ago by some moron who thought it would be good to have two British championship, that split has never truly healed meaning that even now you have a British series and an amateur series that never run together. greed again being the main reason.
You gather from this the pain is real for me, rallycross is the sport that got me into racing as a kid on telly and i was thankful to be around in the halcyon days, it was doing fine until IMG came along and ripped it apart. But hey ho you have to move on.
Rallycross was completely ruined by a company called IMG a few years ago, they basically bought it stock and barrel, marketed it, slapped a logo on it, made a bunch of money and did some very good stuff initially, it was becoming a rival to WEC and BTCC and maybe second only to the very top level stuff in terms of popularity.
But what they also did was take it away from a lot of emerging areas in the East of Europe who could not afford the hosting fees and break even, even away from Belgium and Holland who also could not make it pay, and the nail in the coffin here was taking it away from Lydden, basically by trying to build their own track at Silverstone, and building some kind of FoS type event round it. It was a total and utter disaster, they failed to realise that they would have to hire the entire venue, so it cost them a bunch, so, tickets prices were ridiculous, the track was bang average and it flopped. and the circuit is dormant now and Crapperstone dont care as they didn't pay for it!! or not all of it.
Then, they tried to go electric far too early, at the time they had Ford, VW, Citroen and a few other semi works people there, they pretty much all pulled out and then IMG just bailed and left it to rot, which it is doing now, top series is all electric with about 10 cars, and supports are normal with some other rubbish, run by same people as WRC which means it is behind a paywall so nobody watches it and crowds are pathetic, meaning venues make little money.
The sport was ruined in this country a long time ago by some moron who thought it would be good to have two British championship, that split has never truly healed meaning that even now you have a British series and an amateur series that never run together. greed again being the main reason.
You gather from this the pain is real for me, rallycross is the sport that got me into racing as a kid on telly and i was thankful to be around in the halcyon days, it was doing fine until IMG came along and ripped it apart. But hey ho you have to move on.
I first saw rallycross at Croft in the days of the Jan de Rooy DAF Coupe and have watched it , off and on , ever since . It had its days in the sun as a TV sport (which it started as , of course) and ever since has seemed to be on the brink of making the big time again - but snatching defeat from the jaws of victory with tracks going under , internecine wrangling and poor management.
For me , peak rallycross was in the late 80s and the Inter Nations Cup meetings at Croft were sensational, with big numbers of crazily powerful cars at a course with wonderful , close up viewing . Not any more - it has now stopped altogether at Croft but the track was ruined after the (very welcome ) return of racing in 1996 .
Latterly , rallycross has generally comprised of old drivers in very fast cars and young drivers in very slow ones - Suzuki Swift anybody ? But there have been exceptions and Dan Rooke was one of the finest drivers I have seen in recent years . The fact most people will say 'who?' tells you all you need to know about Rally X - so near and yet so far
For me , peak rallycross was in the late 80s and the Inter Nations Cup meetings at Croft were sensational, with big numbers of crazily powerful cars at a course with wonderful , close up viewing . Not any more - it has now stopped altogether at Croft but the track was ruined after the (very welcome ) return of racing in 1996 .
Latterly , rallycross has generally comprised of old drivers in very fast cars and young drivers in very slow ones - Suzuki Swift anybody ? But there have been exceptions and Dan Rooke was one of the finest drivers I have seen in recent years . The fact most people will say 'who?' tells you all you need to know about Rally X - so near and yet so far
coppice said:
I first saw rallycross at Croft in the days of the Jan de Rooy DAF Coupe ......... Dan Rooke
I've been watching almost as long but more on tv initially .And Dan Rooke ,last time I saw WRX on tv , he was co commentating on it ,a young talented driver wasting his time watching when he should have been driving but unable to get a decent full time seat .
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
I know of these airfields quite well having grown up in Harrogate.
A pop up circuit is what I would be thinking, for racing I think there is a dearth of venues, especially in outlying areas like the Southwest or Scotland. So using MOD land to create venues including temporary race tracks is important.
I have no interest in whether anyone comes to spectate at club events, if that’s the venues fault it’ll be to do with not allowing organising clubs to keep the gate receipts.
Maybe a temporary circuit will be cheap to create, maybe it got more accessible both in terms of cost and location
Also motorcycle racing seems to get away with very low rent circuits, route 66 at Elvington or Darley Dale.
So it sounds like making a paddock area safe is just because you’ve located it the wrong area, or need atter airfield more pre disposed for racing
The paddock wasn't the problem it was the pits. Can't remember the exact figures but the pit lane wall had to be able to withstand something like a 10 tonne force with no deflection be over 2metres high.A pop up circuit is what I would be thinking, for racing I think there is a dearth of venues, especially in outlying areas like the Southwest or Scotland. So using MOD land to create venues including temporary race tracks is important.
I have no interest in whether anyone comes to spectate at club events, if that’s the venues fault it’ll be to do with not allowing organising clubs to keep the gate receipts.
Maybe a temporary circuit will be cheap to create, maybe it got more accessible both in terms of cost and location
Also motorcycle racing seems to get away with very low rent circuits, route 66 at Elvington or Darley Dale.
So it sounds like making a paddock area safe is just because you’ve located it the wrong area, or need atter airfield more pre disposed for racing
Edited by Dynion Araf Uchaf on Saturday 14th January 08:32
Edited by Dynion Araf Uchaf on Saturday 14th January 08:34
Darley Dale is not a temporary circuit neither was Carnaby and both have never run a car race meeting.
Whilst the study we did was for a specific venue the principals would need to to be applied wherever it was done. Now this was to MSUK standards, I am sure that some other organisation could do it cheaper but currently no one apart from MSUK runs car race meetings.
I would also highly recommend checking out some National Autograss events. They are not governed by Motorsport UK but if you go to some of the main events then you will see some amazing machinery and some fantastically close racing.
https://www.national-autograss.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TJ2iMmNheU&ab...
https://www.national-autograss.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TJ2iMmNheU&ab...
BananaFama said:
I noticed Op you haven't been to Lydden Hill or Rallycross .
I have completely lost touch with world RX over the last few years so I Googled it .
World RX is returning to Lydden and some others of the traditional venues ,the venue in Belgium ,at Mettet is back too after Spa had it for a couple of years .
I would get down to Lydden this year before it gets dropped again for some silly £££ reason .
I also went to Mettet 3 times ,it's a good little venue and popular with the Belgians .
I’m supposed to be working the weekend it’s at Lydden but being able to kill two birds with one stone, I might swap my shift.I have completely lost touch with world RX over the last few years so I Googled it .
World RX is returning to Lydden and some others of the traditional venues ,the venue in Belgium ,at Mettet is back too after Spa had it for a couple of years .
I would get down to Lydden this year before it gets dropped again for some silly £££ reason .
I also went to Mettet 3 times ,it's a good little venue and popular with the Belgians .
Drumroll said:
The paddock wasn't the problem it was the pits. Can't remember the exact figures but the pit lane wall had to be able to withstand something like a 10 tonne force with no deflection be over 2metres high.
Darley Dale is not a temporary circuit neither was Carnaby and both have never run a car race meeting.
Whilst the study we did was for a specific venue the principals would need to to be applied wherever it was done. Now this was to MSUK standards, I am sure that some other organisation could do it cheaper but currently no one apart from MSUK runs car race meetings.
Carnaby and Darley Dale were/are very very basic race circuits. But I don’t know why ACU think they’re ok to race at.Darley Dale is not a temporary circuit neither was Carnaby and both have never run a car race meeting.
Whilst the study we did was for a specific venue the principals would need to to be applied wherever it was done. Now this was to MSUK standards, I am sure that some other organisation could do it cheaper but currently no one apart from MSUK runs car race meetings.
With respect to the pit wall issue, Lydden is a good example of not really having any pits at all.
For giggles I decided to map out some circuits on the airfields in question. For Linton you could use the apron as a de facto pits with the start finish straight some 80 meters away using the D shape of the road next to the buildings.
Again for club meetings you don’t need to have a pit lane, maybe some signaling area but that could be place anywhere.
You could do something similar at Dishforth. So with respect I think you were considering it from the POV of an international FIA standard track and not a clubbie venue.
I’d by happy with the venues opening up for trackdays but ultimately I’d want some racing at new venues.
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
Carnaby and Darley Dale were/are very very basic race circuits. But I don’t know why ACU think they’re ok to race at.
With respect to the pit wall issue, Lydden is a good example of not really having any pits at all.
For giggles I decided to map out some circuits on the airfields in question. For Linton you could use the apron as a de facto pits with the start finish straight some 80 meters away using the D shape of the road next to the buildings.
Again for club meetings you don’t need to have a pit lane, maybe some signaling area but that could be place anywhere.
You could do something similar at Dishforth. So with respect I think you were considering it from the POV of an international FIA standard track and not a clubbie venue.
I’d by happy with the venues opening up for trackdays but ultimately I’d want some racing at new venues.
For Linton Anything like this ? http://www.silhouet.com/motorsport/tracks/linton.j... 1960-61With respect to the pit wall issue, Lydden is a good example of not really having any pits at all.
For giggles I decided to map out some circuits on the airfields in question. For Linton you could use the apron as a de facto pits with the start finish straight some 80 meters away using the D shape of the road next to the buildings.
Again for club meetings you don’t need to have a pit lane, maybe some signaling area but that could be place anywhere.
You could do something similar at Dishforth. So with respect I think you were considering it from the POV of an international FIA standard track and not a clubbie venue.
I’d by happy with the venues opening up for trackdays but ultimately I’d want some racing at new venues.
Maxdecel said:
For Linton Anything like this ? http://www.silhouet.com/motorsport/tracks/linton.j... 1960-61
Excuse the crap ouline. Circuit going anti clock with pits on left (concrete apron) 
Approx 2.2 miles
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